## [BST] The Lion King, filtered through a postcyberpunk backstory and "Hamlet and the philosopher's stone". * Author: u/Prezombie * * URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/2bvmbi/bst_the_lion_king_filtered_through_a/ * Score: 16 * Created: 2014-07-27T19:13:08 ### Post: I had a funny idea a while back, covering an odd backstory for Redwall. In a nutshell, humans left earth, restoring it to the closest thing they could manage to a pre-human ecosystem as a nature preserve. One strain of nanite was left behind, because it was so ubiquitous that it was impossible to completely eradicate. It was a general purpose machine which stabilized brain chemistry when prescribed, logged the total engram of the host for archival purposes, and other low-level, unoffensive neural improvements. Think the lowest common denominator here, nothing above the proverbial lines that world leaders would have set. After humanity leaves, that "species" of nanite should have all gone into permanent shut down after all the containment systems ran down and the hostless machines run out of power. Because of reasons, the subprocess that prevents implantation in non-humans is damaged and pruned from a few of the machines, and coincidentally gets picked up by an infestation of mice. From there, through the food chain, it spreads like an infection, imperfectly bringing "damaged" animal brains up to human baseline. I've brainstormed a few different ways to use this setting idea, Redwall, Mouse Guard, (Cat) Warriors, as well at least one quarter-formed original setting acting as a pastiche of the lot, similar to how The Magicians deconstructed The Magic School and The Magic Land. Then I watched The Lion King, and exactly a hundred forty seconds into the movie, I want to write The Lion Poet-King, or Breaking Free from the Circle of Life. There's a bunch of potentiality with that setting. Origin of language (I'm thinking the divergence point could be Simba and someone disagreeing on the meaning of a word, and going from there to him trying to puzzle out the differences between the dictionaries in their heads) Body-mind duality, reincarnation (somewhat possible if an old network infects a new host similar enough to cause it to "repair" old memories into the new host) Tool usage (most go without, but Rafiki, the "priest" Mandrill Baboon uses many and even draws. Timone briefly uses a file on one of Simba's claws, depending on how literal the music parts are taken. The lions have thumbs enough to use tools as well, Scar uses a bone as a toothpick, but that's pretty much it. When you have claws, every problem looks like a scratching post?) Approaching the fic from the Lion King side, There's plenty of potential things to poke with a deconstruction stick. Maybe music numbers are how low-level nanite synchronization is interpreted? Hakuna Matata is the prime example of a memetic hazard. What exactly is up with the River King aspect of the pridelands? Are hyenas so environmentally destructive, or is that just the lion-biased viewpoint? Or is it post-hoc reasoning, and it's just a drought? How much of natural lion behavior is extant, and possibly, how does a thinking individual reconcile their primal side with a forebrain normally not equipped to dealing with such instincts? Eg. The desire to kill the cubs when taking over a new pride. There's an interesting contradiction in the mythology. They say that the past kings are in the sky, but also that Mufasa is inside Simba. Two steps? Duality separation? Something else? Lots of other things to consider, so I'd like some pings from you guys. What low-transhumanistic elements and/or Lion King deconstructionism would you like to see tackled in such a fic? I'm especially interested in finding elements which aren't already asked and answered in HPMOR, I wouldn't want the fic to be a sci-fi version of HPMOR with nanites instead of a hypothetical magic engine. Which divergence point would you prefer, before the Hamlet plot even begins, at Simba's exile, or after the Hamlet plot? Some other point I haven't considered? ### Comments: > **u/Nepene** [+3] (4 hours later) > > Sounds pretty cool. > > >Are hyenas so environmentally destructive, or is that just the lion-biased viewpoint? Or is it post-hoc reasoning, and it's just a drought? > > The clear thematic interpretation is that the king somehow magically makes the land better by their presence and commoners ruling it makes it worse, causing a drought. > > So why not incorporate that into the story? > > Mufasa is killed > > http://giphy.com/gifs/Q0JhbL0wd4Gty > > and is uploaded into the cloud. > > http://giphy.com/gifs/7nkzQc235bqPC > > He takes control of the attack routines in that and uses them to deny cloud access to the evil interloper, forcing Nala to come for food and love. > > http://giphy.com/gifs/12PFKi4i2Bwwow > > She returns Simba, the hyenas turn on Scar, and Mufasa restarts the rain. Mufasa, as always, has the last laugh. > > http://giphy.com/gifs/qbEm5Ej3nJ8ek > > I think it would be quite interesting to explore the circle of life/ religious implications. In redwood Martin the Warrior continually possesses people, forever making people into copies of him. Mufasa is presumably doing something similar to Simba. The plot is driven by Mufasa mass murdering herbivores because he hates Scar. > > A sort of combination of the matrix and the lion king. >> **u/Prezombie** [+3] (11 hours later) >> >> Hehe, uploaded into the cloud. >> >> I think the big difference between Martin and Mufasa would be that Martin is simply borrowing bodies, and eventually releasing them, while Mufasa is the end of a long chain of father-son connections, each one imperfectly making the descendent into a personality copy of the father. And then Timon and Pumbaa come along, and totally break the chain. >> >> I wouldn't exactly say that Mufasa turning off the rain would be mass murder of herbivores, it's explicitly said that the herbivores moved on to greener pastures, and it's just Scar's stubborn refusal to abandon a throne that keeps them there. >> >> I really enjoyed The Lion King as a kid, but one major flaw in the cinematography left me confused for a long time. It honestly looks like that during the stampede, after being rescued, Simba climbs up the cliff, and sees Scar betraying his brother. It took a long time to realize that no, apparently he didn't, even though he managed to yell the big no when Mufasa falls. >> >> I'm thinking that this would be an ideal point of departure for the fic, as it would allow the canon plot to actually be set up, but with the primary change that his exile isn't tinged with guilt about Mufasa's death, but guilt about being so easily manipulated and insufficiently analytical about others' motives. >>> **u/Nepene** [+2] (21 hours later) >>> >>> >I wouldn't exactly say that Mufasa turning off the rain would be mass murder of herbivores, it's explicitly said that the herbivores moved on to greener pastures, and it's just Scar's stubborn refusal to abandon a throne that keeps them there. >>> >>> There were skeletons all around, so some likely died, some moved on. >>> >>> Scar was stubborn, though if Mufasa caused the drought as is implied him moving to another land likely wouldn't solve the issue. It would be interesting to see if he could try and resolve the issue independently- perhaps he could try to find other monkeys like Rafiki who can hack into the cloud? Perhaps as primates they get a higher access level. >>> >>> You can see Simba ran behind a rock, he can't see any more. >>> >>> That would be a good departure point. > **u/_brightwing** [+2] *Feathered menace* (13 hours later) > > Oh yes. Yes, yess! I knew the second I wandered off into r/rational that this place and me was meant to be. Take that Deconstruction Stick and make thorough use of it D:< > > I think the best thing you could do for the story is not to make Scar explicitly evil. Make his motivations bigger and grander than just becoming king. Throw in a sci-fi element like say Dune's Spice ecosystem or something, only involving nanites. The planet becoming inhospitable to plant life could be side effect of him doing this. But there is a genuine reason for him resorting to something like this, to the point the readers can even sympathise with him. Necessary evil and all that. This becoming a clash of values. > > I absolutely love the idea about Mufasa being the collective mind of all the Lion Kings that ever was - that totally fits. Don't villainize him though. It just doesn't sit well - too much of a thematic departure from canon. It could be that the collective king in the cloud makes a hard choice for the kingdom. Or performs hard calculation and projects a scenario for Simba. Or something.. > > Oh - and if Simba can imperfectly access Lion King memory database don't leave Scar standing. He could have the full power of the Lion King like his brother. One sided fights are always interesting. >> **u/Prezombie** [+2] (16 hours later) >> >> Oh, sure, Scar won't be explicitly evil, any more than both versions of Mufasa would be explicitly good. Heck, Scar could be painted in a pretty good light if he's earnest about his attempts to "civilize" the hyenas. >> >> If your morality is tailored for an obligate carnivore, it wouldn't be that hard to reach the moral epiphany that the hyenas deserve hunting territory just as much as the lions. A carnivore-biased version of humanism, I suppose. (which, as a sci-fi nut, always seemed like a far too restrictive name for a philosophy which could easily expand its empathic sphere from "the human species" to "intelligent beings") >> >> >Oh - and if Simba can imperfectly access Lion King memory database don't leave Scar standing. He could have the full power of the Lion King like his brother. One sided fights are always interesting. >> >> I don't get this. If Scar is also amplified, it wouldn't be a one-sided fight? >>> **u/_brightwing** [+4] *Feathered menace* (23 hours later) >>> >>> I am thinking that with the role of Lion King comes mass mind influencing power. An irresistible presence of command, something to do with syncing in with the nanites to make the targets lose volition, and prostrate. With only the members of the Pride being more or less immune to this Ruler effect. >>> >>> You could also make the Hyenas more than just mooks. Turning them more like Ringwraiths, the creatures of nightmares that they were meant to be. A significant shunned powerbase for which Scar approached them in the first place. >>> >>> Simba's synchronization like you said was incomplete. So maybe he can only sporadically use the King's power like the Avatar state, only have limited access to the well of memories for short unreliable and uncontrollable periods of time. This way he'll have to rely more on tactics. You can have him trying to rally the common animal folk to the coup he makes against Scar. >>> >>> An opportunity to write about leadership, which is not a bad thing to put the focus on. The victory could then be seen as the Kingdom's not just Simba's. A better message and more about what being a King actually about is - for the ~~pe~~animals. >>> >>> There is just so much possibilities with this setting. I can't wait to see what you come up with :P > **u/E-o_o-3** [+1] (14 days later) > > >What exactly is up with the River King aspect of the pridelands? Are hyenas so environmentally destructive, or is that just the lion-biased viewpoint? Or is it post-hoc reasoning, and it's just a drought? > > This is child-me reasoning so I'm not sure how well it fits in the actual story, but I thought the food shortage was because the Hyenas were eating everything - which makes sense, actually. After Scar introduced the hyenas, there were two apex predators in one region...though that doesn't explain the drought. > > Now that I think back on the memory of the movie with an adult's eye, I think the writers did tend to imply that Scar somehow caused environmental decay / the herds to move on. But I'm also getting a very Red Scare / communist vibe from the canon - like somehow Scar's power grab via redistribution of resources to Hyenas caused economic collapse. (Remember when the Hyenas were like, "No king lalalala" and Scar was like "IDIOTS!"? They were definitely thinking about politics.) > > Even if the original authors did sort-of write the story such that it's easy to conclude via literal interpretation that the True King magically brought on the rain, I think the *intention* was definitely to say that Scar was a bad ruler somehow, rather than simply lacking the magic or something. > > A non-magical hybrid between the two would be to have the Lion King be a farmer-king, generally managing environmental resources and culling herbivore populations when they got too large. If lions really *did* get smarter, you'd expect them to start becoming successful enough to really strain against resource constraints and then find ways out of them...and, just as with human farmers, this necessitates careful resource management. That would further explain the "Circle of Life" ideology. Alternatively, it could go in a "law of the jungle" direction - as in, "we can't show mercy to the old and weak animals because there's limited resources here". ---