## [BST] Illusion Magic * Author: u/TimTravel * * URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/2nqcrv/bst_illusion_magic/ * Score: 6 * Created: 2014-11-29T04:46:02 ### Post: The power to turn something that looks identical or nearly identical to another thing and actually turn it into the other thing. This system will need good restrictions of course, but what are some good applications? It would be weaker against multiple observers and it would be harder to use without prep than most magic systems but with prep I think it could be pretty powerful. One possible restriction in need of rephrasing: you can't change something that isn't observed by anyone. No changing a closed empty box into the same closed empty box containing the cure to cancer, or even a bar of gold. edit: In its current form this is too powerful. I'm looking for good, interesting restrictions. Applications too. ### Comments: > **u/alexanderwales** [+5] *Time flies like an arrow* (3 hours later) > > There's a Brandon Sanderson novella *The Emperor's Soul* that uses a somewhat similar system of magic. There the magic isn't about *observation*, it's about histories, so you can take a crappy vase and put a stamp on it that will turn it into a really awesome vase. The more similar the two things are, the easier it is to switch from one to the other. (I personally think that story is one of the best things that Sanderson has written.) >> **u/Zephyr1011** [+5] *Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity* (5 hours later) >> >> To take one example from the novel, the protagonist is in a dull, drab room in a palace. She uses the magic to change the room's history, so that a famous painter who once stayed nearby in the palace actually stayed in the room and painted it, making the room beautifully painted and decorated >> **u/TimTravel** [+1] (22 hours later) >> >> I will definitely add it to my backlog of books. > **u/E-o_o-3** [+3] (15 minutes later) > > But you can paint the box yellow and *then* turn it into gold, yeah? Or a sugar pill into, if not a cancer cure, at least an *actual* pill? Or a toy computer into a real computer, containing software that people already know about? > > One good restriction is probably that the size and weight of the object shouldn't change. Otherwise you can send up a yellow balloon or something and end up with a second star. >> **u/TimTravel** [+2] (17 minutes later) >> >> Basically, yes, if you paint it well. The mana cost is proportional to the difference in appearance. >>> **u/E-o_o-3** [+1] (23 minutes later) >>> >>> Have you thought about perceptual disabilities and weirdness? >>> >>> Simple example: give a short rope to a blind person, and it turns into a long rope, or an elephant's tail complete with the elephant, or something. >>> >>> Crazier example - turn people's hallucinations into real things. >>> >>> Craziest example: Create Neverending staircase optical illusion. Make it real. >>> >>> Edit: Are we talking turning people's perceptions into reality, or tricking a God-ish thing that runs reality and can generally see everything we do? >>>> **u/TimTravel** [+1] (38 minutes later) >>>> >>>> I was thinking more along the lines of the former. I'm not sure about things like blindness. That might just be equivalent to not looking at it. Less (of your own) observation, less influence. >>> **u/Gurkenglas** [+1] (15 hours later) >>> >>> Take a mirror and turn it into a copy of myself? This would go exponential, and quickly. >>> >>> (Take a convex mirror and use one me's magic to duplicate all of my bodies? This would go hyperbolical, and nigh-instantly.) > **u/ulyssessword** [+2] (9 hours later) > > Can it depend on perspective? If so, there's some pretty neat tricks you can pull. IIRC Disneyland has a road leading up to a castle, and all of the trees get progressively smaller the closer they are to it. This gives the illusion that the trees are all the same size and the castle is very big and far away. > **u/eaglejarl** [+2] (12 hours later) > > Somewhat offtopic: if this is an actual transformation, how is it illusion magic? > > Ontopic: How different can the objects be? Can I turn: > > * A Toyota Camry into a Formula 1 racecar? > * The prop Batmobile from the 60s campy Batman into a real Batmobile with atomic turbines that can then be reverse engineered? > * A prop from any movie set into the real thing? If so, hurrah for transporters, FTL spacecraft, FTL communications and basically anything else because I can write movies that include whatever I want. > * A picture of something into the real thing? > * A hologram of something into the real thing? > * A life-sized painted 3-D model of something into the real thing? >> **u/TimTravel** [+1] (20 hours later) >> >> What I really need help with is coming up with a good set of restrictions. Unrestricted, all of those would be possible and the world would end very quickly. >> >> The illusion comes in because magicians would be able to use it to greater effect. Magicians in the classical real-world trickster people sense. >>> **u/eaglejarl** [+2] (21 hours later) >>> >>> First thought off the top of my head: base the restriction on information. It could be that you can't create something that you don't understand in fairly good detail. A stick figure into the Mona Lisa? Sure, we all understand how paint works. Fake Batmobile into real one? Nope -- no idea how atomic turbines work, don't know enough about cars, etc. > **u/MugaSofer** [+2] (15 hours later) > > >One possible restriction in need of rephrasing: you can't change something that isn't observed by anyone. No changing a closed empty box into the same closed empty box containing the cure to cancer, or even a bar of gold. > > This was my first thought, yeah. > > What's the important difference between a box containing a cure to cancer and a box containing circuitry (a computer)? Or a solid gold "box" containing gold - that is, a gold bar? I'm not sure what the distinction is, so I can't munchkin it. > **u/richardwhereat** [+2] (2 hours later) > > BST? >> **u/alexanderwales** [+3] *Time flies like an arrow* (2 hours later) >> >> Brainstorming. ---