## Pro-munchkinry roleplaying and rationalist characters? [RT] [Q]

* Author: u/Sailor_Vulcan  *Champion of Justice and Reason**
* URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/2pfkcb/promunchkinry_roleplaying_and_rationalist/
* Score: 5

* Created: 2014-12-16T03:35:02

### Post:

I'm hoping to get back into pen and paper roleplaying games sometime soon. I think it would be a LOT more fun and challenging if my characters aren't limited by "the plot demanded this" stuff.

Have any of you guys ever played a rationalist character in a pen and paper rpg? And of those who did, how did your DM take it?

### Comments:

> **u/alexanderwales** [+9]  *Time flies like an arrow* (an hour later)
> 
> I have. It went ... okay. The big problem is that you need a very good dungeon master if you're planning on going off-script, because it requires improvisation. If you just snub your nose at the plot, you're going to run into some serious issues when the dungeon master doesn't have anything prepared, which can create some real problems. So the first word of warning is that you can't just make your own character who's intent on breaking the world without buy-in from the DM, and probably also from the other players.
> 
> I DM much more than I play though, and I always try to make sure that my NPCs have realistic goals, and that the conflicts are more realistic than "creature of pure evil". The villains often have a point, and on a few occasions that PCs have decided that they'd been working for the wrong side.

>> **u/RMcD94** [+2]  (21 hours later)
>> 
>> Do you record/stream your games at all? Be good learning for the rest of us.

>>> **u/alexanderwales** [+2]  *Time flies like an arrow* (a day later)
>>> 
>>> The most I have are after-action reports, and most of those are in the style of "this is what happened so we can figure it out later". They also tend to only get written when I'm feeling particularly motivated, which means that there are large gaps in the narratives. And sometimes someone takes it upon himself to do stupid things, so sometimes it's an exercise in me trying to keep things spinning. Here's an excerpt, if you're interested:
>>> 
>>> > It is late August in the year of 1713. The War of Spanish Succession has been almost entirely concluded with the Treaty of Utrecht. Queen Anne, long plagued by illness, lies lame and corpulent in London. Scientific and wizardly advancements abound throughout Great Britain and continental Europe, while colonialism continues to move in full swing abroad. And in the town of Aylesbury, a chance meeting by three people will set into motion events that disrupt the entire course of history.
>>> 
>>> > Sancho, recently returned to England after decades of travel through India and the Orient, has found himself heir to a number of properties for which he has no need. As they are a drain on his funds, Sancho is selling them off one by one, and aside from the small manor he keeps in London, the last of these remaining is the country estate near Aylesbury. While the sale of the estate would normally be the work of Obed Clarke, the solicitor for Mr. Hamwich, the Aylesbury estate has been plagued by rumors that it is either haunted or possessed. The recent mysterious murder of a groundskeeper now demands direct attention. The initial thrills of a sedentary lifestyle have faded, and Sancho is pleased for the opportunity to once again deal with some unknown force which is trying its best to murder him.
>>> 
>>> > Myfanwy's numerous letters to the scientist, wizard, physicist, mathematician, alchemist, President of the Royal Society, and Master of the Royal Mint Sir Isaac Newton have gone unanswered. The young alchemist now seeks to distinguish herself in the eyes of her peers, and has come to Aylesbury seeking the journals and equipment of a deceased alchemist by the name of Callum Hamwich. For the past three years, his estate has been shuttered, and the valuable alchemical equipment he owned, as well as the wealth of journals and notes he left behind, have been waiting for someone with the tenacity to acquire them and intellect to make use of them. For Myfanwy, this is a golden opportunity to set herself apart and finally make her mark on the world.
>>> 
>>> > Nathaniel has fled from the unkind oceans following an unsuccessful mutiny on the pirate ship *Bachelor's Delight*, and has lived in Aylesbury these past years exercising his powers in private, while presenting himself as a minor wizard to those who live in the town. Nathaniel has gradually come to the conclusion that to gain the true powers he seeks, he will have to throw himself into more dangerous and trying circumstances. The news of a malevolent spirit at the Hamwich manor is exactly the sort of thing that is called for. If Nathaniel can ingratiate himself with more legitimate members of society who can lend cover to his demonic powers, so much the better.
>>> 
>>> I have a huge number of things like this spread all over the place. But it's not really in the form that it's presentable to anyone.

> **u/obviousdisposable** [+4]  (13 hours later)
> 
> I ran a game that was specifically designed to be massively derailed by intelligent player decisions and in-character munchkinry. The players didn't act as rationally as I'd hoped, but they did find and fix the major problems of the universe through creative outside context solutions, so I was happy with how it went. 
> 
> I'm definitely interested in running it again, but I haven't found a group of players that are well suited to it.

>> **u/HumanPlus** [+3]  (a day later)
>> 
>> I would love to play this.

>>> **u/MadScientist14159** [+1]  *WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe.* (3 days later)
>>> 
>>> Me too.

>> **u/Sailor_Vulcan** [+3]  *Champion of Justice and Reason* (22 hours later)
>> 
>> That sounds really fun too. You could even keep track of the number of rounds it takes each party to win, and post the high scores in some sort of hall of fame!

>>> **u/obviousdisposable** [+2]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> It was a whole lot of fun, and the party seemed to really enjoy the weirdness. The players took about 6 months real-time to win (most infinite power loops were non-viable for in-universe reasons), so the record won't be hard to beat :)
>>> 
>>> I'd expect an rational party to have the game off the rails in the first session, but the scale of the problems to fix is enough that they might not be able to win that quickly. I really want to test this now...

> **u/Igigigif** [+3]  *IT Foxgirl* (8 hours later)
> 
> One really great setting is the tippyverse (RAW 3.5), where portal circle make other transport obsolete and all the munchkinery has already happened
> http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?222007-The-Definitive-Guide-to-the-Tippyverse-By-Emperor-Tippy

>> **u/Sailor_Vulcan** [+2]  *Champion of Justice and Reason* (13 hours later)
>> 
>> That looks AWESOME! I want to play that! I don't know where I can play it though...

>>> **u/Pencil-Monkey** [+1]  (13 hours later)
>>> 
>>> There's an /r/lfg/ subreddit where people can go looking for roleplaying groups to play with - you could try advertising for potential recruits over there.
>>> 
>>> (Also, you may wish to take a look at [this previous discussion](http://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/1u4de0/the_tippyverse_a_dd_35_campaign_setting_where_the/) on the topic.)

> **u/Drexer** [+2]  (10 hours later)
> 
> Heh...
> 
> Are you ready to still respect your GM's decision when it comes to interpretations of the text/the plot?
> 
> From my experience the problem when players try to be rationalist/go beyond the plot is that they usually superimpose their interpretation above the GM's backstory due to one or two words that might have been told in a more absent manner or a small error that was previously made.
> 
> In a similar way, you need to check if your actions are contributing positively to the story or if they're closing of details that exist for the other characters instead of all things for one character to solve.
> 
> In the end it depends on the GM and if the story is ready for it. Although in most cases most rationalist plots are very hard to be thwarted by a single band of adventurers, so it's very hard for the GM to balance a story which gives the PC's enough rope to work with and not so much that they hang the story with it.

> **u/BekenBoundaryDispute** [+1]  (8 hours later)
> 
> One of my characters (from a semi-generic fantasy setting), an astronomer-wizard renaissance man, designed a Foucault pendulum in response to news that the days in the campaign setting were getting shorter relative to normal astronomical cycles (because, you know, demons).
> 
> The campaign ended before we got a chance to see the results (for entirely different reasons).

> **u/TimTravel** [+1]  (10 hours later)
> 
> The most important rule for this: anything fair game for players is fair game for NPCs.

> **u/Pencil-Monkey** [+1]  (12 hours later)
> 
> The Indie RPG movement has produced plenty of games that can be played with minimal GM activity or even without a GM, usually using some form of collaborative storytelling to let all the participants be both "PCs" and "GMs", both creating the world and its NPCs and playing characters in it.
> 
> *In a Wicked Age*, *Fiasco*, and - if you prefer more comedic games - *InSpectres* are all good examples of games with little or no requirement for a GM, which in turn allows the players to be as clever and rational about their play styles as they care to be. After all, you can't go against the plot if the plot is being written by the entire gaming group during play.

>> **u/Sailor_Vulcan** [+1]  *Champion of Justice and Reason* (13 hours later)
>> 
>> Might that not depend on how players collaborate to come up with and agree on a consistent plot? Is it by consensus, or popular vote or something else? Or do people just have to agree to trust each other to be reasonable about the story they're writing?

> **u/MadScientist14159** [+1]  *WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe.* (3 days later)
> 
> I tried it once.
> 
> The problem is that being rational in real time is much much harder than writing a rational protagonist (and I'm still *learning* how to do *that*).

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