## [Biweekly Challenge] Fables and Legends * Author: u/alexanderwales *Time flies like an arrow** * URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/3pp3lw/biweekly_challenge_fables_and_legends/ * Score: 14 * Created: 2015-10-21T22:49:34 ### Post: ## Last Time [Last time,](https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/3nwfh6/biweekly_challenge_precommitment/?sort=confidence) the prompt was "Precommitment". /u/cthulhuraejepsen is the winner with their story ["Odd Man Out"](https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/3nwfh6/biweekly_challenge_precommitment/cvvlo6m), and will receive a month of reddit gold along with super special winner flair. Congratulations /u/cthulhuraejepsen! ##### This Time This time, the challenge will be "Fables and Legends". This is a broad topic that covers everything from Aesop's Fables to Hansel and Gretel, with a lot of leeway. The most well known rationalist fable is [Nick Bostrom's Fable of the Dragon Tyrant](http://www.nickbostrom.com/fable/dragon.html) which is a good example of the sort of feeling you might want to go for. Remember, prompts are to inspire, not to limit. The winner will be decided **Wednesday, November 4th.** You have until then to post your reply and start accumulating upvotes. It is strongly suggested that you get your entry in as quickly as possible once this thread goes up; this is part of the reason that prompts are given in advance. Like reading? It's suggested that you come back to the thread after a few days have passed to see what's popped up. The reddit "save" button is handy for this. ##### Rules * 300 word minimum, no maximum. Post as a link to Google Docs, pastebin, Dropbox, etc. **This is mandatory.** * No plagiarism, but you're welcome to recycle and revamp your own ideas you've used in the past. * Think before you downvote. * Winner will be determined by "best" sorting. * Winner gets reddit gold, special winner flair, and bragging rights. * All top-level replies to this thread should be submissions. Non-submissions (including questions, comments, etc.) belong in [the meta thread](http://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/39dxi3), and will be aggressively removed from here. * Top-level replies must be a link to Google Docs, a PDF, your personal website, etc. It is suggested that you include a word count and a title when you're linking to somewhere else. * In the interest of keeping the playing field level, please refrain from cross-posting to other places until after the winner has been decided. * No idea what rational fiction is? [Read the wiki!](http://www.reddit.com/r/rational/wiki/index) ##### Meta If you think you have a good prompt for a challenge, [add it to the list](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B6HaZc8FYkr6l6Q4cwBc9_-Yq1g0f_HmdHK5L1tbEbA/edit?usp=sharing) (remember that [a good prompt is not a recipe](http://www.reddit.com/r/WritingPrompts/wiki/prompts?src=RECIPE)). If you think that you have a good modification to the rules, let me know in a comment [in the meta thread](http://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/39dxi3). Also, if you want a quick index of past challenges, I've [posted them on the wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/wiki/weeklychallenge). ##### Next Time Next time the challenge will be "Amnesia", or more generally, the loss of knowledge. This covers everything from self-editing of memories to antimemetics. It's up to you whether to go with retrograde or anterograde amensia (the later seen in *Memento*), or if you want to go with something more in the realm of science fiction. If you want to write fanfic, franchises of opportunity include *Men in Black*, *Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind*, the *Bourne* series, *Harry Potter*, *Artemis Fowl*, *Memento*, along with many, many others. **Next challenge's thread will go up on 11/4.** Please confine any questions or comments to [the meta thread](http://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/39dxi3). If you want to discuss the week's theme, [visit the companion thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/3pp8f2/challenge_companion_fables_and_legends/). ### Comments: > **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+32] *Fruit flies like a banana* (a day later) > > [The Bear and the Fox](http://textuploader.com/a8et6), 600 words >> **u/Sailor_Vulcan** [+6] *Champion of Justice and Reason* (a day later) >> >> How does the fox know that the rabbit he caught is *the smartest* rabbit in the forest, and not just *a* smart rabbit in the forest? Also-- >> >> Fox: ...Are you awake, Mr. Bear? >> >> Bear: What time is it, Mr. Fox? >> >> Fox: Lunchtime! >> >> Sorry, couldn't resist! :D >>> **u/cthulhuraejepsen** [+7] *Fruit flies like a banana* (a day later) >>> >>> > How does the fox know that the rabbit he caught is the smartest rabbit in the forest, and not just a smart rabbit in the forest? >>> >>> He doesn't know that it's the *smartest*, but he reasons that Father Moose probably doesn't have some super-special way of figuring out which rabbit is the smartest either, so the context of the challenge is "beating Bear" rather than complete optimization (and Fox is both clever and lazy). Fox is not terribly surprised to find that this challenge was about *good methods* rather than *good outcomes*. >>>> **u/PeridexisErrant** [+5] *put aside fear for courage, and death for life* (2 days later) >>>> >>>> > Fox is not terribly surprised to find that this challenge was about good methods rather than good outcomes. >>>> >>>> Oh man, if only academia had it this good... >>>> **u/RMcD94** [+1] (a month later) >>>> >>>> By that logic returning with no rabbit would be the superior choice. The smartest rabbit is not going to be inside a fox's jaw. Or offer a monetary reward with risk free collection and all rabbits of some rationality should appear. >> **u/Adamantium9001** [+2] *United Federation of Planets* (4 days later) >> >> Ah, delightful. This would be particularly great to show to children/young teens. > **u/hoja_nasredin** [+8] *Dai-Gurren Brigade* (8 days later) > > [The prince arrived](http://pastebin.com/8TrgdT5w) 1155 words > > Rough reviews and any advice is as always highly sought after. >> **u/electrace** [+3] (8 days later) >> >> [Well written](#s " although I wonder why she didn't just run away after the assassination. There doesn't seem to be any reason to stick around the day after.") >>> **u/hoja_nasredin** [+3] *Dai-Gurren Brigade* (9 days later) >>> >>> Thanks. It had to dowith borders controls tightening after the assasination, but I frogot to include that piece. Yet I understand very little of medieval/reinassance border controls so it would have been a weak point anyway. >> **u/iamthelowercase** [+3] (9 days later) >> >> I saw what you were playing with, [but for some reason I was expecting ](#s "a runaway princess rather than an assasin"). > **u/MultipartiteMind** [+7] (5 hours later) > > (I wrote a second after the first wasn't long enough; not sure how to handle this, so for better or worse posting them together.) > > [The Kept Promise](http://pastebin.com/Terj3cJJ), 271 words. [Future Apparent](http://pastebin.com/ZMjmuk14), 670 words. >> **u/Zephyr1011** [+3] *Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity* (21 hours later) >> >> What's The Kept Promise about? I don't get what the significance of the attacked neuroscience labs is >>> **u/MultipartiteMind** [+3] (a day later) >>> >>> [Spoiler: ](#s "England existentially threatened by a sudden absurdly powerful enemy! On the verge of its destruction, King Arthur heroically appears to fulfil his promise to return again in England's time of need! The at-first incredulous public rejoices as his deeds prove himself time and time again the legendary hero that they admired as children! A minority of people notice that a lot of neuroscience labs were destroyed after he returned, and wonder 'Wait a moment, ancient magical swords and protection and heaing abilities have actually existed this whole time, *or* this is something new (human or AI) out of a neuroscience lab which wants to act openly while being exulted somewhere instead of hiding or being hated and feared?'. If the second, research duplication prevention is explained, and the timing of the 'threat' which prevents excess scrutiny is telling.") >>>> **u/None** [+2] (5 days later) >>>> >>>> [Spoiler] (#s "I can't imagine a neuroscience lab that does research into creating mysterious handsome men with legendary swords. What was he supposed to be? A shared delusion? An omnipotent AI? I don't think I get it.") >>>>> **u/MultipartiteMind** [+1] (6 days later) >>>>> >>>>> [Spoiler: ](#s "If a neuroscience lab completed ground-breaking research and the world was subsequently conquered by a being which appeared to be and claimed to be the Flying Spagetti Monster, I as well wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the lab's research had been on pasta. In my own imaginary version of events a certain lab's head researcher upgraded his own mental abilities by an order of magnitude or two and then started playing hero (and making sure no competition showed up afterwards), but you can also imagine it as a nigh-omnipotent AI gone rogue. To make it clearer, should it be specified that the targeted labs were all cognition-related? (Otherwise, maybe lots and lots of organisations (including neuroscience labs) with the stated goal of increasing intelligence? That mostly sounds pointless, though, and if narrowed too much I'd worry that it would be too blatant on the part of the culprit, or of the author.)") >>>>>> **u/None** [+2] (6 days later) >>>>>> >>>>>> That makes it clearer! IMO the connection between king Arthur suddenly appearing and neuroscience is... not that apparent. >>>> **u/RMcD94** [+1] (a month later) >>>> >>>> So is this prior to the act of union with time travellers or in some alternate reality where the act of union never happened or what >>>>> **u/MultipartiteMind** [+1] (a month later) >>>>> >>>>> The Kept Promise and Future Apparent have nothing to do with each other--they're separate ideas that I had rattling around in my head and wanted to try writing down. The Kept Promise is about fable exploitation/usurpation, whereas Future Apparent is presented in terms of the self-narratives which run through the two sides' societies (the shape of the future each side sees and is absolutely certain of, which we can contrast each other and see to be both wrong and doomed). I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'the act of union'. I'm sorry for not making it clearer that the two stories weren't part of a series--thank you for making me aware of that assumption as a possibility! >>>>>> **u/RMcD94** [+1] (a month later) >>>>>> >>>>>> The act of union in our time line which lead to the union of England and Scotland and then another one for Ireland and Great Britain. >>>>>>> **u/MultipartiteMind** [+1] (a month later) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ah, I see. My apologies for misunderstanding. The entire British Isles (yes, including southern Ireland, for example because it would raise eyebrows amidst the populace if only it were unnecessarily left outside) are being protected/dominated, but an English person may tend (depending on personality/upbringing) to think of England more in terms of England than Britain, especially when thinking about English legends. It's a good point that Scotland, southern Ireland et cetera may have more incredulous populace overall regarding this. >>>>>>>> **u/RMcD94** [+1] (a month later) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ah I see I think it would have been better to say the restored United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland which would convey all that. >>>>>>>>> **u/MultipartiteMind** [+1] (a month later) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ahh. I might not have gone to that degree of wordiness (trying to represent a person's thoughts/impressions rather than oration), but for example 'To all our country' would likely have been much better as the more explanatory 'To all in the British Isles'. (I can't change the 'England's once and future king' part at the end without invalidating the 'once' or otherwise marring the line.) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Edit: Incidentally impression is that a version without a different timeline is simpler to posit than a version with it, but if mentioning Ireland by name is necessary to convey its presence I have no objection to the setting being imagined as an alternate timeline instead. >>>>>>>>>> **u/RMcD94** [+1] (a month later) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Simply suggested it because the restoration of the Isles into one Kingdom would have been a notable part of this chaps perspective when detailing all that Arthur had done. The wayward southern Irish being subsumed would certainly be something an English person would find relevant. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't think you need to be as wordy as my example of course. >>>>>>>>>>> **u/MultipartiteMind** [+1] (a month later) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ahh, I see! Relevant indeed, though it might make more people in the populace suspicious (particularly in the context of defense against a powerful outside threat--though, the more I think of it, the more the incidental folding of Ireland back into Britain in the face of a fearful enemy makes sense as something happening in the background, sooner or later (unofficially first, later officially)). Do you know of any legends of King Arthur as an English king that deal with him conquering other lands or ruling over Ireland? My impression of him was that he inherited the kingdom from his father (via the sword?) and then kept it safe until the Mordred thing, but I'm not a dedicated scholar. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --That said, it *would* be hilarious (in a completely different story, say) to see the real Arthur come back, without an fraud of a great enemy (maybe "The people's souls cried out to me that the land is in need once more, threatened by this 'economic recession' fiend!"), and try to lead an army against 'the uppity French' by invading Disneyland or something like that... less so if in reality due to the death and bloodshed involved, but are there any fictions that come to mind where a legendary hero ends up in the modern world and actually makes reasonable headway at war against his traditional enemies before someone stops him? (Something like if, in Fate/zero, Alexander/Rider had *actually* won and then tried to conquer his way from Japan to Greece across Eurasia as he'd planned...) >>>>>>>>>>>> **u/RMcD94** [+1] (a month later) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Well it might make the reader more suspicious which I think wouldn't be bad considering the ending but the populace can easily be swayed to it as with the other hints so I figured they can be dealt with the same way. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway since historically Arthur didn't even rule over all of England. I immediately googled this and apparently: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >Geoffrey's version of events often served as the starting point for later stories. Geoffrey depicted Arthur as a king of Britain who defeated the Saxons and established an empire over Britain, Ireland, Iceland, Norway and Gaul. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Obviously the French weren't really French by the time of Arthur's supposed existence. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But anyway that's what I remembered so the idea was his choice of either just the UK or the entire British Isles would be notable enough to be mentioned. Trying to find a map of his supposed Kingdom leads to all sorts of contradictory nonsense. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> While I can't think of any legends or those other stories off the top of my head regarding either, for the time traveller one it is definitely not an unfamiliar concept. I think I've maybe seen a comic or something >> **u/Sailor_Vulcan** [+2] *Champion of Justice and Reason* (19 hours later) >> >> For the second story, why is it that when humanity inserts material into the other universe, a planetoid comes out of it instead? Or are there three universes in the story? >>> **u/MultipartiteMind** [+3] (a day later) >>> >>> [Spoiler: ](#s "There are two universes, and neither of them contain humans. Note 'the creatures were far too tiny'--it's probably safe to imagine the second universe's inhabitants as around our size, whereas the first's are absurdly large, and their dimensional scanners too insensitive to be able to realise that") [(second spoiler) ](#s "the tiny lifeforms are all moving backwards.") >>> >>> [First spoiler again: ](#s "(Ah, but 'neither of them contain humans' is only my personal preference for envisioning it: it's not relevant to the story, so you can imagine either as being humans, and there are also ways to imagine both as differently-scaled humans.)") >> **u/thecommexokid** [+2] (7 days later) >> >> My upvote is for "Future Apparent," which I enjoyed a lot. Like the other posters, I found that "The Kept Promise" covered too much inferential distance without enough explanation. But I'm glad that explanation was absent, since it caused your wordcount to come out low and therefore in turn caused you to write the other story. > **u/None** [+1] (12 hours later) > > [deleted] >> **u/alexanderwales** [+3] *Time flies like an arrow* (14 hours later) >> >> Please edit this to be a **link to the publishing platform of your choice** such as Google Docs, pastebin, a personal website, Dropbox, etc. as per the rules. >>> **u/Sailor_Vulcan** [+1] *Champion of Justice and Reason* (15 hours later) >>> >>> Sorry about that I didn't know. Last time I participated in one of these everyone was posting their stories directly in the thread. > **u/Sailor_Vulcan** [-1] *Champion of Justice and Reason* (17 hours later) > > This is a speculative short essay/story I wrote describing a hypothetical origin of all reality that probably is extremely inaccurate due to my lack of expertise in physics, biology and computer science. Hope you enjoy! > > [A Universe From Nothing, Literally](https://gorgonzilla.wordpress.com/2015/10/22/a-universe-from-nothing-literally/) ---