## Just watched Jessica Jones. How could one use Kilgrave's powers to improve the human race?

* Author: u/mightykushthe1st *
* URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/5elned/just_watched_jessica_jones_how_could_one_use/
* Score: 8

* Created: 2016-11-24T03:37:08

### Post:

[removed]

### Comments:

> **u/thrawnca** [+4]  *Carbon-based biped* (an hour later)
> 
> Honestly? I wouldn't attempt anything for the whole of humanity with that. Way too much scope for a) making a catastrophic error and doing more harm than good; b) getting the wrong people mad and getting hammered; c) if actually successful in some degree, becoming too integral to the functioning of people's lives.
> 
> Maybe I'd make a career in psychotherapy or similar, where people actually want to be influenced.

>> **u/mightykushthe1st** [+1]  (4 hours later)
>> 
>> How could it go wrong? It would be absolute influence; more like obedience than influence, as the target would do whatever it is you asked them to, even if it runs counter to their own beliefs. 
>> 
>> Also, I forgot to add that the influence of each order lasts for 12 hours, upon which a person reverts to their natural state if not given any new orders.

>>> **u/thrawnca** [+1]  *Carbon-based biped* (15 hours later)
>>> 
>>> > How could it go wrong?
>>> 
>>> You're joking, right? A short-sighted, short-lived being is going to make other people do things that run counter to their own beliefs, with a view to making the world run differently, and you can't see how this could possibly backfire with a vengeance?!
>>> 
>>> Oh, and you've helpfully mentioned that it wears off in a short time. Tell me, what is the usual reaction when a Dire Charm wears off? How would *you* react to the realization that someone had been mind-controlling you?

>>>> **u/mightykushthe1st** [+1]  (16 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> I posted here because I don't know, so no, i'm not joking. What are some specific ways that it could go wrong, besides people being angry? Assume that you dont need eye contact to mind control people, so you can hide your identity while controlling them.

>>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+1]  *Carbon-based biped* (20 hours later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> OK, let's see...just off the top of my head...
>>>>> 
>>>>> You make the Israeli and Palestinian leaders agree to a peaceful settlement. The extremist factions are infuriated, disavow their government(s), and go on a killing spree. ISIS supports them. You try to intervene, and get shot by a sniper.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You use your influence in Congress/Parliament to get legislation passed. Unfortunately you're so persuasive that it doesn't get sufficiently discussed, and it has severe side effects that would have been identified in the usual process.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You work anonymously as a police negotiator, with your face always covered, to stop hostage situations and bridge jumpers. Reporters track you down, and the next group of terrorists incapacitates and drugs you, forcing you to work for them (there are ways to stop you from talking them out of it, like having relatives held hostage in a location unknown to your captors).
>>>>> 
>>>>> The biggest threats, though, are the ones that *I haven't even thought of*, because *I'm not smart enough* to know how my actions will affect the billions of people in the world.

>>>>>> **u/mightykushthe1st** [+1]  (21 hours later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > side 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Okay this is helpful. So if someone had this power and wanted to use it, it would be better to start small, maybe at a local level, to see whether their changes could stick? but ultimately they would still need to rely on their own persuasiveness and diplomacy skills to create any lasting change.

>>>>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+1]  *Carbon-based biped* (23 hours later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> > it would be better to start small, maybe at a local level
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I certainly would. If control wears off after 12 hours, then that makes it less useful for psychotherapy, but you could probably do very well in some other fields, like personal training.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The problem that I see with implementing any big changes is, as soon as you come near anyone with significant power/influence, they're going to see you as a threat. So, you either have to avoid them, or seek to dominate them long-term. The former option limits the scope for you to achieve anything, and the latter is simply a road to dictatorship. And benevolent dictators are very nice in theory, or on a small scale, but humans are just too flawed to make world domination work out for the best.

> **u/Geminii27** [+2]  (an hour later)
> 
> You could influence politicians and other powerful people to set policy for how the planet was run. You could influence religious figures and televangelists to build you an army of people who were encouraged to set a particular precedent for social order.
> 
> If your influence worked over recordings, you could have TV shows, ads, bit parts in movies, and so on, to reach a mass audience. Have your messages injected into broadcast media, ISP-level web page rewriting, and smart TV ads.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't want to try and make absolute change; that never really works out well. But I'd be OK with nudging society towards increased co-operation, intellect, and mutual assistance, and decreased aggression and crab-bucketing. When everyone's fed, clothed, housed, generally happy, and has opportunities to pursue their passions, there's not really a need for things like police, military, governments etc. Or at least there's a severely decreased requirement. It's a lot easier to get out of the mindset of having to fight all the time if nearly everyone you encounter is nonjudgmental and happy to assist you in achieving your goals (assuming those goals don't involve damaging other people without consent).
> 
> Effectively, my own goal would be to advance knowledge and the lot of the human race, partially just by arranging for all the piddly shit and backbiting that holds people back to be taken care of. And making sure that the more power someone had, the more influenced they were to help others and to resolve conflicts amicably.
> 
> It wouldn't even have to be massively overt. If society's heros and authority figures and popular media characters were overwhelmingly people who promoted and embodied win-win situations, and the processes of putting those together were taught in both formal and informal ways, people wouldn't even need to be mentally influenced directly in order to be far more likely to do that sort of thing automatically. Just following the crowd.

>> **u/thrawnca** [+1]  *Carbon-based biped* (15 hours later)
>> 
>> But when everyone around you is playing the Always Cooperate strategy, there is a *huge* payoff for playing Defect. You'll have bullies, con artists, and aspiring dictators popping up all over the place to exploit this newfound trust and goodwill, and you'll spend your life firefighting - until one of them gets you. That's just one example.

>>> **u/Geminii27** [+1]  (a day later)
>>> 
>>> It's also possible to instill identification and isolation skills. Most cons, dictators, cult leaders etc prey on people who can't tell what's going on.
>>> 
>>> I could probably intervene for a few minutes if one of them got completely out of hand, or have a strategy of jail terms incorporating a transfer to some location I could swing by, but generally most low-level stuff should be largely handled by public education, people watching out for each other, and the much-reduced equivalent of police/FBI forces.
>>> 
>>> I'm not going to pretend that humanity would 100% convert to the gospel of being nice to each other, but the goal is more a push or influence to that end rather than forcing it.
>>> 
>>> And there's no particular reason I'd walk around in the same identify I used for broadcasts. :)

>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+1]  *Carbon-based biped* (a day later)
>>>> 
>>>> > It's also possible to instill identification and isolation skills
>>>> 
>>>> Is it? When your influence disappears after 12 hours?

>>>>> **u/Geminii27** [+1]  (a day later)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Overlapping continual 12-hour blocks is plenty of time if you're sitting in a national seat of power and can influence policy on things like the educational curriculum.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Basically, as long as you can influence the people at the top, they can then direct everyone under them to do various things and you never need to directly influence those lower layers.

>>>>>> **u/thrawnca** [+1]  *Carbon-based biped* (3 days later)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Then you're setting yourself up as a dictator, *and* your system is completely dependent on you. As soon as you're no longer in the seat of power, everyone will revert to how they were. I'd rather do nothing than set up something unstable.

>>>>>>> **u/Geminii27** [+1]  (4 days later)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> To an extent. It's quite easy to exert influence at the top to make sure that the middle and lower layers are filled with people who either think the same way as you naturally, or don't care and are happy to get paid to implement your policies. Plus you can arrange things so that the paths to power are rigged to favor people who approve of your way of doing things, and sandbag those who don't. By the time anyone gets to a seat of actual power, they either think like you or they're incredibly good at hiding that they don't (and will need to keep doing so in order to remain employed).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That way, you can either get rid of the top layer via attrition and have everyone below them step up, resulting in a complete power structure tuned to your requirements. Or, even if you have to leave earlier, the existing top layer is likely to fall into uncoordination between factions, while having to maintain at least some of your policies so as not to seem like flip-floppers or easily influenced people or conspiracy theorists, and all the time your middle and lower layers still exert a massive pressure to keep things running your way.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> And of course you could even set things up so that there was an *actual* democratic voting system which couldn't be easily corrupted or disassembled, and rely on all those voters who had their lives vastly improved by (as far as they know) local politicians who ran on these new platforms (the ones you designed).

---