## Looking for Something Like: "Shoulders of Giants"

* Author: u/None *
* URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/9ewqws/looking_for_something_like_shoulders_of_giants/
* Score: 12

* Created: 2018-09-11T11:37:22

### Post:

[Shoulders of Giants](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/11371/shoulders-of-giants) is a rationalist fiction wanna be. That is, the author made a deliberate effort to write rationalist fiction but may have failed at that. Regardless of the story's shortcomings, I really loved it and would love to read a story that is like it in a few key aspects.   
What I loved about it:   

* Optimising the real world: The story is set in an alternate history version of earth with a bit of handwavium to grant the MC his "mild" super power (he can absorb the knowledge of any book he reads by touching (provided he could have learned the material by studying anyways). The MC faces real life challenges, and we see how incentive structures, knowledge of bias and Bayesian reasoning play a role in applying optimisation pressure to real life.   
* Knowledgeable/Smart MC. The MC due to his superpower basically becomes a polymath. Him applying his unique blend of knowledge to munchkining real life was a delight to read.   
* Very educational. The author did a lot of research on standard rationalist topics like cognitive bias, bayesian epistemology, incentive structures, game theory, psychology, etc and it shows. They also added references at the end of every chapter whenever they applied specialised knowledge in the chapter.   
     
At any rate, the story was very wonderful (despite the few failings it had (it's better to say that it's a "rationalist" story, that doesn't always get the "rational" part correctly)).

### Comments:

> **u/VanPeer** [+7]  *The shard made me do it* (4 hours later)
> 
> Thanks! I’m glad you enjoyed it. Not surprised it looks like a failed rational story, ha ha. It is heavily influenced by HPMOR, etc. Although my goal wasn’t a rational story, but a blog in story form that let’s me explore ideas that I find mindblowing. The plot is definitely not a organic rational progression . For that reason I never promoted it here.

>> **u/None** [+3]  (5 hours later)
>> 
>> Then I'll promote it for you then. If you have any other fics like that, I'd really love it. Regarding the rational part, it isn't exactly "rational", but I do think it's "rationalist" because it meets (IMO) rhe two main criteria of rationalist fiction I.e demonstration of rationalist techniques as applied to optimising the real world and the teaching of said techniques. If you're willing to rewrite it after it's finished (for publishing perhaps), then I do think it could be turned into something wonderful.

>>> **u/VanPeer** [+3]  *The shard made me do it* (5 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the motivation. I’m slow to update but the fic is still alive

> **u/loimprevisto** [+5]  (4 hours later)
> 
> The "optimising the real world" part isn't seen often with this sort of story. I recently read [The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_Fifteen_Lives_of_Harry_August) and it has some elements of what you mentioned. It was very well written and I thoroughly enjoyed it... let me know what you think if you end up reading it!

>> **u/None** [+1]  (5 hours later)
>> 
>> Not sure I would get around to it (I'm more likely to pick up books if I can read it online than if I need to go the extra mile required to download a (free) copy).

>>> **u/loimprevisto** [+1]  (5 hours later)
>>> 
>>> Check your local library! Any time my budget gets in the way of reading something I can usually count on my library find a copy for me!

>>>> **u/None** [+1]  (6 hours later)
>>>> 
>>>> I don't have access to a local library (I live in a third world country and have never been to a public library in my country (not saying they don't exist, but if they do I'm not aware of it)).

>> **u/VanPeer** [+1]  *The shard made me do it* (5 hours later)
>> 
>> My local library seems to have it. It’s on my list now. Thanks for the rec

> **u/TacticalTable** [+5]  *Thotcrime* (5 hours later)
> 
> This was one of the most frustrating stories to read, and another big example of why modern world rational fiction is extremely difficult. Few people have real indepth familiarity with medieval or fantasy settings, but everyone has experience on multiple levels with the real world. Thus, when the main character "cleverly subverts" or munchkins real world rules, it doesn't feel smart, it just feels like an asspull from the author to make his main character(s) special. 
> 
> If you want another story in this vein, check out Archon on Royalroad(not sure on full title?) But it has most of the same problems, and a few more.

>> **u/None** [+2]  (5 hours later)
>> 
>> Well, this was a rationalist story, and the sincerity of the author in the research they did is part of why I enjoyed it so much. Your recommendation makes me think I wouldn't enjoy Archon.

>>> **u/TacticalTable** [+0]  *Thotcrime* (6 hours later)
>>> 
>>> All of those complaints applied to both. It's basically a gotcha of the setting in general. They did exclude any research they used writing it, and it's more obviously a self insert power fantasy, but the structure and quality is similar.

> **u/redv** [+1]  (2 days later)
> 
> I found is quite good. I would be keen to read more.

> **u/generalamitt** [+1]  (14 days later)
> 
> As much as I love the premise the terrible dialogue and characterization make it unreadable for me.  Also very far from rational.

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