5.6 KiB
Is Game of Thrones rationalist fiction? on r/HPMOR (No spoilers)
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Author: u/None *
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URL: http://www.reddit.com/r/HPMOR/comments/1v313f/offtopic_is_game_of_thrones_rationalist_fiction/
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Score: 7
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Created: 2014-01-13T18:26:12
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Comments:
u/alexanderwales [+4] Time flies like an arrow (an hour later)
I've got a ton of responses on that thread, but going by the handy checklist:
The characters are not stupid. No one holds the Idiot Ball (or at least not the main heroes or main villains).
This is a work with loads and loads of characters in it, and so it depends on who you consider the main characters. It's not really so much a problem of holding the Idiot Ball as it is that some people act in the stupid ways that people sometimes act in real life. There are also a few real boneheaded moves by a few of the players.
The characters solve problems through the intelligent application of their knowledge and resources.
Again, it sort of depends on the characters. Tyrion is the resident master of this, while Cersei is basically just insane and Sansa has no real agency.
The story is like a puzzle; readers can reach the same solution as the characters by using the information provided earlier in the story.
Sometimes. See below, but the magic systems make this a bit hard, because the reader is often kept in the dark about how those things actually work. There have been a few times when solutions to problems were presented which didn't really seem to have any groundwork laid for them - they still worked in story for me, but they weren't the sort of thing you could possibly predict.
Factions are defined and driven into conflict by their beliefs and values, not just by being "good" or "evil".
I'd definitely check this one off. Some care about their immediate family, some care about personal power, some care about the good of the realm, and others just want to rule over the ashes.
The rules of the fictional world are sane and consistent.
Nope. There are maybe eight or nine systems of magic (warging, warlocks, greenseeing, shadow binding, white walkers, faceless men, dragons, etc.) and none of them are really explained at all. And this is by intent - Martin wants magic to be strange, dangerous, and beyond human comprehension. I think it works for the story, but it doesn't hit that bullet point.
And with maybe the exception of Sam, we don't really hit any of the bullet points, and I don't really expect that we will in future books, because GRRM's interviews have indicated that this isn't the sort of story that he wants to tell.
u/AnarchistMiracle [+3] (4 hours later)
Any time sex is involved, rational behavior seems to go out the window. Half the time it just seems like an excuse to get out the Idiot Ball.
u/None [+1] (5 hours later)
Could you elaborate?
u/AnarchistMiracle [+1] (10 hours later)
It's a common enough trope. I don't know how to put it eloquently, but the men in the series show a very strong tendency to let their dicks do their thinking. Cersei even comments that Lord Varys is the most dangerous man in the realm, just because he can't be seduced. Some examples off the top of my head:
It's realistic for men to do dumb things when they're horny, but I think rationalist fiction should go a step beyond that and show characters doing the smart thing even when their emotions are pulling them in other directions.
u/None [+3] (21 hours later)
I think rationalist fiction should go a step beyond that and show characters doing the smart thing even when their emotions are pulling them in other directions.
I disagree. It would be incredibly stupid if all characters in these stories were perfect rationalists.
u/der1n1t1ator [+2] (15 hours later)
besides the first thing all of that happens in the show and not in the Canon books.
[AGOT] (#s "Jaime and Cersei having sex is risky in any way, and having sex in Winterfell in an abandoned tower, when everyone is away hunting is not more stupid than having sex in Kings Landing") [ACOK] (#s "Melisandre explains Stannis how to make a shadow baby, and he agrees to go through with it") [ACOK] (#s "IIRC Osha-Theon never happens") [ACOK] (#s "Jon-Ygritte is dumb without a doubt")
u/alexanderwales [+1] Time flies like an arrow (10 hours later)
I completely agree with this. It's realistic maybe, because people - especially young people - do stupid things when affected with hormones, but it's not rational.
u/None [+1] (10 hours later)
Ah, I see what you mean now. Yeah, seems like the problem is sticking to stereotypical beliefs in gender roles or gender stereotypes. Women can be just as seduced and not all men fall for sex.
u/sambocyn [+1] (3 months later)
or Cersei banging Jamie? she let her _ do her thinking. and jon beheaded ygritte because he seemed to think it was dishonorable to kill a woman. not because she was hot.