7.5 KiB
[Q] Which is a better name for the TV Tropes page about rational fiction, 'Rational Fic' or 'Rational Fiction'?
-
Author: u/None *
-
URL: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IbcZdgW7p4a1twGB_LGanPczN1PlXfMfyP2uFSKLE6o/viewform
-
Score: 3
-
Created: 2014-02-03T18:54:15
Post:
Comments:
u/EliezerYudkowsky [+9] Godric Gryffindor (a day later)
"Rationalist Fiction". Though it also seems that eaturbrainz has a different concept of what this is about than I did. Plenty of SF, including all 'hard' SF, aspires to lawful worldbuilding. Plenty of mystery novels aspire to be fair puzzles. Plenty of litfic aspires to GrayVsGrey morality (something I find profoundly uninteresting which is why there are phoenixes and Dementors in HPMOR). Rationalist fiction is distinguished from existing genres by its ability to exhibit useful explicit cognitive skills, which in turn requires that good thinking not be an Informed Ability. Munchkinism is a major feature of HPMOR and its derived works and is itself a useful cognitive ability; you could also handwave a lot and try to trace it back to Null-A, though I'm not sure you should.
But to be rational is something that many people would say their literature aspires to, and that's not at all the same as explicitly rationalist.
"I will remark," Dumbledore said while Harry was still trying to sort out how to reply to this completely unexpected rejoinder, "that it is a common misconception of Ravenclaws that all the smart children are Sorted there, leaving none for other Houses. This is not so; being Sorted to Ravenclaw indicates that you are driven by your desire to know things, which is not at all the same quality as being intelligent."
u/None [+1] (a day later)
That's a very good argument for changing it to say "Rationalist" in place of "Rational".
I'll move it after grading these homeworks.
u/None [+0] (a day later)
Also, it appears that by our combined efforts, we have managed to convince the YKTTW Repair Thread that our page is terrible and we are douchebags.
Is OP a faggot, as well? Stay tuned for more!
u/EliezerYudkowsky [+3] Godric Gryffindor (2 days later)
Not very surprising. You didn't go through the YKTTW process.
u/None [+2] (2 days later)
Blekh, fair enough. I had wanted this to be a very quiet process rather than the "ratifying" of a new "trope".
Better go just stick the content on the subreddit wiki, which is probably a more sensible approach.
u/alexanderwales [+2] Time flies like an arrow (31 minutes later)
I think Rational Fic is fine. "Fic" is a colloquialism that stands in for "fiction", and the "fan" part is omitted entirely. The "fi" in "scifi" serves a similar role. That said, I'm not terribly invested one way or another.
u/rthomas2 [+4] (8 hours later)
The thing is, Fic has now become the suffix denoting a type of fan fiction. Fix Fic, for example, or Slash Fic. The other wiki says that "fic" itself is an abbreviation of Fanfiction; and certainly that's how it's used. On top of which, the mere fact of Fic being an abbreviation gives it a sort of unofficial, all-comers-welcome sort of a feel, which prompts associations with unpublished, un-"professional" work.
So, we should only use "fic" if we mean to indicate fanfiction primarily; unless we're trying to promote linguistic change, which doesn't seem to be our aim, and would complicate things unnecessarily.
u/rthomas2 [+2] (8 hours later)
As I see it there are two options: either we mean to talk about any and all fictional works which fit under the "rational" umbrella; or we mean to talk about the emerging subgenre of fan fic that is rational fic.
If we mean to talk about all "rational" fiction, I would argue for the name "Rationalist Fiction." We're talking about fiction that exemplifies the values of Rationalism, not about fiction that is objectively intelligent, because that begs the question of "rational by whose standards?"
If we mean to talk primarily about fanfic--even if we might consider extending the label, through loose usage, to published works which are similar to such fanfic--then I would likewise argue for the name "Rationalist Fic."
u/None [+2] (20 hours later)
Rational Fic (RationalFic) 3, 15%
Rational Fiction (RationalFiction) 14, 70%
I don't know 3, 15%
I think we should use either 'Rational Fiction' or 'Rationalist Fiction' like people suggested in this thread.
u/None [+1] (21 hours later)
Let me know when we've got a "finished" new page on TVTropes so I can put it in the sidebar.
u/None [+1] (22 hours later)
No need. I made it so that the old links redirect automatically (both RationalFic and RationalistFiction). So changing the url will only be a cosmetic change.
edit. Ugh. There were problems. I suggest you go here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?type=att and vote for the name change.
u/None [+1] (a minute later)
Earlier discussion about this.
I understand why there is currently such a heavy emphasis on fanfiction on the page, but do we expect that emphasis to fade with time, to the point where a more general page might be RationalFiction?
vs.
Like, do we, as a community, want to rename it to Rational Fiction? I'm not sure if it's that good because it kinda makes it sound a bit like every other fiction is horribly irrational and dumb, whereas RationalFic sounds a bit more palatable.
u/mcgruntman [+3] (22 minutes later)
An interesting point but I still think there's no need to imply via the contraction of fiction to fic that it is fanfic only. I think 'Rational Fiction' is a perfectly fine name and doesn't have to make any insinuations about 'non' rational fiction.
u/None [+1] (an hour later)
I'm not sure if it's that good because it kinda makes it sound a bit like every other fiction is horribly irrational and dumb
Some of us already identify as "rationalist" which has the horrible implication of other people being horribly irrational. I think I can stomach a tv-tropes page called "Rational Fiction". But if that seems too terrible, we could always use "Rationalist Fiction", fiction written by and for rationalists.
u/None [+2] (an hour later)
I've always understood being "rationalist" as aspiring to be more rational, not necessarily being rational already. This would only imply that non-rationalists don't bother to try and I'm not sure how insulting that would be.
But if that seems too terrible, we could always use "Rationalist Fiction", fiction written by and for rationalists.
That could be better. Or what about rational!fiction
u/None [+1] (2 hours later)
Rational!fiction also works. I like the "!" notation.
u/DataPacRat [+1] Amateur Immortalist (2 hours later)
If you're going to shorten the name, why not go a step further, to a term the length of 'fanfic': RatFic?
u/None [+1] (2 hours later)
Yeh, rats sure are smart.
u/rthomas2 [+6] (8 hours later)
Oh, Algernon...we miss you.