47 KiB
[MK] The Two Year Emperor, Chapter 58: "The Heart of a Landguard"
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Author: u/eaglejarl *
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URL: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9669819/58/The-Two-Year-Emperor
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Score: 22
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Created: 2014-08-23T13:00:33
Post:
Comments:
u/alexanderwales [+6] Time flies like an arrow (4 hours later)
Huh. So if that's how Mindscrape works, Ice Afi One could use Mindscrape on Ice Afi Two in order to spread the knowledge - so removing it from the leader might not be enough. Though I suppose that there are good reasons not to spread the knowledge too far, and letting another creature learn all of your secrets is terrible, even if they're an exact clone of you. Also also, Mindscrape gives a lot of fodder for secrets that you can junk - gather up a thousand people, Mindscrape them, then have all the ice clones Mindscrape each other, then have them each dump a thousand people's worth of secrets into the ritual.
And I just now realized that Mindscrape is probably a renamed Mindrape, which is one of the most terrifying spells in existence.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (6 hours later)
All of this is correct. There's a quibble about knowledge possessed by a thousand people and a ton of IAs not being secrets, which means that it has a lot less oomph but yes, that works.
And yes, Mindscrape is a bowlderized version of Mindrape. I wanted something a bit more family friendly, since my general rule is "it could be shown on prime time."
u/alexanderwales [+2] Time flies like an arrow (15 hours later)
I get why you changed the name, but it was always one of my favorite spell names specifically because it conjures up such ugly feelings that so perfectly match what the spell actually does. It's a brutal, ugly, vile spell, with a name that quite suits it. But it's probably not in fitting with the story you want to tell to have that word be used.
I'm curious whether any of the mages that can learn/cast 9th level spells would be alright with knowing and using Mindscrape. For all that I just said about it being brutal, vile, and ugly, it's also got some of the most utility of any of the mental magic spells out there. You can ensure absolute loyalty, you can rapidly share information, you can change alignment without using the Helm (and presumably forcing a much more difficult save), you can do so many things. I'm not sure who would willingly submit to it, but it's an incredible spell. If Mind Blank weren't continuously applied to all of the most important people, it would be even better than save-or-die, since instead of killing your opponent you turn him into your instant ally.
(I once ran a D&D campaign which featured a villain who was famous for the use of Mindrape and other mental magics as a sort of Moriarty man-behind-the-man-behind-the-man role, and have a deep affection for the spell.)
u/eaglejarl [+2] (16 hours later)
It's a brutal, ugly, vile spell, with a name that quite suits it. But it's probably not in fitting with the story you want to tell to have that word be used.
I dunno about you, but to me 'Mindscrape' brings to mind images of a jagged rock being dragged across someone's wet brain. Pretty vile, ugly, and brutal to me. :)
Minor spoiler: I'm actually planning to have some of the new Archmagi pick up Mindscrape.
And yes, it's less of a save-or-die and more or a save-or-lose-and-become-the-enemy-of-all-you-stand-for.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (a day later)
When I heard Afi use it, it sounded like a spell to scrape the useless parts and clutter from a mind. In hindsight, an evil Lich would not have been as altruistic, or helpful
u/eaglejarl [+1] (a day later)
Very true. Very true.
u/gumballhassassin [+1] (15 hours later)
Does that mean then that the "secrets" they were sacrificing, e.g. the fact that they have spell slots which isn't really a secret, are going to be much less effective?
u/eaglejarl [+2] (16 hours later)
Sort of.
The effectiveness of a sacrifice is how much of a sacrifice it is -- how big a difference it makes, both to you and to the world, that you've given up this knowledge. If it's a secret, then you're sacrificing the only copy of the knowledge; think of that as a multiplier, because it makes the sacrifice more significant when there is no one else who could act on the information.
When Jake sacrificed his "blow up the world" plan, it was a really big deal. It would have effected every single undead and living creature on the planet, it was the only way that Jake then knew to win the war of extinction he was facing. Also, it was the only copy of the information -- no one else knew what he'd come up with. Even without the secrecy multiplier, it was still a big deal.
The fact that the Ice Assassins have spell slots isn't a secret, but for a spell caster to permanently give up a spell slot is a huge deal for that person. They don't get the secrecy multiplier, but it's still a big sacrifice.
u/eaglejarl [+4] (15 seconds later)
Chapter drop.
Note: This is the closest I've come to missing deadline since the story started. (It's 11pm on Saturday where I am.) I've been driving most of the week, which prevented me from getting any writing done, and my muse was remarkably useless yesterday, meaning that I had to write basically all of this today. Note to self: don't do that.
u/tilkau [+2] (38 minutes later)
Hmm. Is there some reason to believe that Jake will lose that knowledge also, when Icefi sacrifices it? That would certainly be a good reason for Thomas' behaviour.
u/ulyssessword [+5] (an hour later)
No. Loki told everyone else that he was playing both sides just fine, but Jake was the only one that couldn't know it.
u/tilkau [+1] (11 hours later)
Thanks for the reminder. But it doesn't really explain Thomas' sudden, specific insistence. It would explain more if Thomas had been this insistent right from the start.
In case what I said before wasn't specific enough: "Is there some reason to believe that, when Icefi sacrifices all the knowledge he got from Jake, that Jake will lose all of that knowledge too, leaving him merely a clever person with no special knowledge?"
Of course, there is also the question of who gets the 'credit' ("share" in Herrun) for the knowledge. I suspect this is Icefi, and the credit would be quite substantial for that amount of rarefied knowledge.
u/ulyssessword [+3] (11 hours later)
The simplest explanation I can think of is that Thomas doesn't want Herrun to have all of that knowledge.
Sacrificing all of that knowledge would also put a severe damper on Icefi/Jake relations, as Icefi could never learn anything about Jake.
u/warlock415 [+2] (5 days later)
If the Icefi in question doesn't change alignments and then sacrifices, isn't it a huge tally mark on the Bad Guys' side? The sacrifice is fine as a method of ensuring the knowledge is gone, but the side effects are horrible.
u/Muskwalker [+2] (16 hours later)
Thanks for the reminder. But it doesn't really explain Thomas' sudden, specific insistence.
I assumed it was a consequence of the unbreakable vow he'd just gotten done making:
"Allow your alignment to be changed and I will recall the magi. Allow your alignment to be changed and I will prevent these messages from being sent in future, so long as you and all of yours maintain faith with us and do not cast yourselves against us. I swear on the Land, and in the name of the True God of Flobovia, to keep my faith with thee, [...] I bind my honor and my soul in earnest to this vow: my word is good, my intent is without deceit, I shall not waver from its completion."
Afi wouldn't allow his alignment to be changed, therefore the leniency that Thomas vowed would come from doing so will not be granted. (Logically this would be "denying the antecedent" but the oath having wording like "my intent is without deceit" suggests it's do-what-I-mean, not do-what-I-say.)
u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 days later)
How is it denying the antecedent? DTA would be something like (using the classic example):
- When it rains, the grass is wet,
- The grass is not wet,
- Therefore it is not raining.
Thomas's vow is a simple modus ponens: "If you do X, I will do Y". (Well, not exactly MP, since X is not being assumed true. Still.)
If Icefi doesn't do X, Thomas is under no obligation to do Y.
u/Muskwalker [+1] (2 days later)
Yes, if there is no 'denying the antecedent', then Thomas is under no obligation to do Y.
My hypothesis meant to explain Thomas's insistence on not doing Y by assuming that he somehow is under an obligation to do not-Y. (If this is not the case, then of course the hypothesis fails.)
Searching for a cause of the postulated obligation, I looked at the vow. The form is basically "If you do as I say, then I will be good to you." So the DTA postulated is the use of this reasoning:
- If you do as I say, I will be good to you.
- You are not doing as I say.
- Therefore, I won't be good to you.
As denying the antecedent, this is logically invalid—but it is a pragmatically likely outcome: normally if someone says "if you stop now, I won't hit you", there's usually an unspoken "if you don't stop now, I will hit you" to be inferred. Thomas' explicitly referencing intent would make this reading possible, but given that it's you I'm having this conversation with, I suppose it is unlikely. :p
(I tried to make the example parallel to yours but it looks like your example is straightforwardly a valid modus tollens.)
u/ulyssessword [+2] (2 hours later)
How are you calculating XP? I plugged 34 CR 10 monsters vs. an ECL 1 character here, and got 367,200 XP, while level 13 only takes 91,000 XP.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (5 hours later)
(I'm away from my books at the moment so roll wih me if I have the specific numbers wrong -- the point still stands.)
I've always been a bit confused by the XP charts. It says that it requires (e.g.) 1000 XP to reach level 2 and 3000 XP to reach level 3. I've had some people tell me that these numbers are lifetime totals (meaning that you become level 3 when you earn your 3000th XP). I've had other people tell me that these are level increments (meaning that you become level 3 when you have earned 1000+3000=4000 XP). I'm not sure who is right, but I am ruling that the numbers are level increments.
Assuming that these are level increments, it takes 360,000 XP to reach level 13. (If I remember the number right -- three hundred something anyway.)
If I'm wrong and those are only lifetime totals, then just assume there were fewer Fire Giants on the platform. Oh and, next next time? We take our newly minted 13th level folk and create a bunch of Fomorian Queens for them to drop. Voila: 17th level Archmagi. The only reason I didn't go straight there is because the XP charts won't handle encounters between 1st level chars and 18h level threats, and the needed number of fire giants was prohibitive.
u/None [+6] (8 hours later)
[deleted]
u/eaglejarl [+2] (17 hours later)
Just for future reference, those are indeed lifetime totals [...] Page 22 of the PHB has all this, unfortunately it is not part of the srd so I cant link to it.
Well, taking advantage of fair use, I'm going to quote one sentence:
"This column on Table 3–2 shows the experience point total needed to attain a given character level—that is, the total of all the character’s level in classes."
I would prefer that this be a lifetime total -- it would mean that the FLEA would need a less ridiculous number of giants while still giving as good or better results -- but I'm still having trouble with the text. "The XP total to attain a given character level" -- that could mean either lifetime total or increment. Is there anything you can point to that clarifies it? If so, I would happily retcon it to work like that, but I'd prefer not to unless I was sure.
I read the info in the Epic Handbook and you're right -- it lets you figure out the award for any challenge. Three problems though:
- It gives the number, but doesn't speak to the total / increment question
- 2YE explicitly disregards all epic content, so this isn't part of the setting. I wouldn't feel too badly about saying "this isn't epic, it's just an explanation of the system so it's in", but...
- 2YE works off of RAW, and the info in the EHB only has RAW about levels 21 and up. The formulas can trivially be adapted to figure out what a 1st level vs 17 CR award would be, but that's RAI, not RAW.
u/None [+1] (17 hours later)
[deleted]
u/eaglejarl [+2] (18 hours later)
"For instance reaching 31st level would require an additional 30x1,000XP (or 30,000 XP), taking the character's XP total from 435,000 to 465,000."
AHA! Thank you, that was exactly what I needed. Excellent. I'll go back and fix Chapter 58.
And yeah, it's totally obvious that that's the expected formula...meh, I'm not going to worry about it. It's such a small nod to RAI that not using it would simply be bloodymindedness. I'll use it, thanks.
u/None [+2] (18 hours later)
[deleted]
u/eaglejarl [+3] (2 days later)
One thing that really annoys me about D&D: wizards effectively stop improving by level 20, and mostly stop improving around level 17. A 30th level wizard should be substantially more powerful than a 20th. It bothers me so much that I very nearly houseruled "number of spells continues to increase", but decided not to. The tables don't support that at all, so it would be a very large and very arbitrary change.
It still grinds like sandpaper on my nonexistent immortal soul, though.
u/None [+1] (2 days later)
[deleted]
u/eaglejarl [+1] (2 days later)
Yeah, I've heard about archivist before. It's always listed as Tier 1 and some people make it sounds like the top of Tier 1 to boot.
Thanks for the link, I'll look it over.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (19 hours later)
LAUGH
Your wish, sahib, is my command.
u/omgimpwned [+1] Sunshine Regiment (a day later)
When I re-read the scene to see what had changed, you seem to have missed a correction here.
Also, great chapter(s), since I only just now caught up on my backlog from last week. Things are beginning to get veeery interesting indeed - looking very much forward to what happens next. Cheers!
u/eaglejarl [+1] (a day later)
Thanks! Fixed.
(Might take a few minutes for FFN to update, though.)
u/Chronophilia [+2] sci-fi ≠ futurology (11 hours later)
That's not where I thought he was going with the worms.
I'd thought he was going to polymorph them into humans, to get more worshippers for Team Life. Rob Deadboy of his share of the prayers by sheer numbers. On close inspection of Polymorph Other, that doesn't work - Polymorph Other doesn't affect the mind, so they'd be humans with an Int of 1. Too low to be sentient.
But they become sentient when their Int hits 3, so all we need is a mass-produced way to give +2 to intelligence. (Suggestions welcome.) Polymorph Other might even be superfluous; depends whether non-humans can contribute towards the god's totals. If they do, Deadboy's massive army of undead must exist for precisely this reason.
I can't find any information on what a worm's Wisdom and Charisma scores are - I'm only guessing that their Int is 1 because animal intelligence is always 1 or 2 and worms are not particularly bright animals.
Oh, I know this isn't a very Lawful Good approach to the war, and in fact is utterly horrifying on many levels. Still, if nothing else you could sacrifice the plan to Herun.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (16 hours later)
But they become sentient when their Int hits 3, so all we need is a mass-produced way to give +2 to intelligence. (Suggestions welcome.)
Simple. Get a +2 Headband of Intellect, give it to the first guy and have him sacrifice everything, then drop it into the hands of the next guy. Lather, rinse, repeat, commoner railgun.
Polymorph Other might even be superfluous; depends whether non-humans can contribute towards the god's totals. If they do, Deadboy's massive army of undead must exist for precisely this reason.
Anything sentient enough to make a sacrifice or offer a prayer can help. As you surmise, that's why Neklos is so incredibly powerful right now -- he converted a billion people (plus an unknown but large number of Underdark dwellers) into undead who worship him. He's not curbstomping the other gods, but that's only because they are working together to keep him at bay.
u/Chronophilia [+2] sci-fi ≠ futurology (a day later)
It might have been a mistake to have Loki give all the gods nicknames. "Deadboy" is a lot more memorable to me than "Neklos", and now that's the only way I'll remember him.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (a day later)
Heh. No problem, it's pretty much the only way the characters are going to refer to him from now on. The 'True God' and 'Arros' will probably get a little more respect, but not all the time.
u/Riddle-Tom_Riddle [+1] (2 hours later)
I'm taking a trip where I won't have internet soon. I've already downloaded the newest chapter to my phone, but damn, it's hard to resist reading it until then.
Urge to read... rising.
Also, Nat20 and Overlady had recent updates. It's like trying to resist eating a piece of cake that's just sitting there, right in front of me.
u/fortycakes [+2] (3 days later)
Your comment caused me to look up Overlady, and to continue the cake metaphor, I ate the entire thing in one sitting. I should probably feel bad, but I don't.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (5 hours later)
blush
Thank you. :)
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (a day later)
That was glorious. It's nice to see Jake using munchkinry to wreak righteous destruction upon his enemies again.
Does Jake have any plans to create spell engines? They seem as though they'd be pretty useful. How exactly do they work, anyway? Do they just cast a single spell? Or can they have the spell they cast changed? And can they cast the more incredibly useful spells, like Ice Assassin or Wish?
How many times can the newly minted Archmages cast Polymorph Any Object per day? Is there a sufficiently large supply of level 1s that Jake could just leave FLEA with a lot of worms and grow his supply exponentially?
u/eaglejarl [+2] (a day later)
Wizard spell progression caps out pretty fast. By 20th level you have 4 spell slots per level base, plus an additional 1-3 (ish) based on your Intelligence. So, yeah. Not all that many times per day.
But! You've got Polymorph Other (4th level) and Polymorph Any Object (8th level),
both of which can be used to power to FLEA. [EDIT: Only PAO. PO can't produce an output critter more than one size category larger than the input critter, so worm => fire giant is a no-go.] So you can, in fact, grow your supply of wizards pretty damn fast. And each one that you FLEAify can, after 9 hours (8 to sleep, 1 to memorize) cast more PAOand POsto help other people crank up. So, yeah, you can grow the supply pretty damn fast.Spell engines come in several flavors: resetting magic traps, spell turrets, spell clocks. They have slight differences, but the basic idea is the same: they cast a specific spell at a specific frequency (1/round, 1/hour, 1/day, etc). You can't change the spell. It isn't specified, but I rule that you cannot put a spell that requires XP into a spell engine, so you can't have a spell engine casting (e.g.) Ice Assassin or Wish. Also, you must make all decisions about the spell engine when you create it. You can't set it up to "use True Creation to create whatever I want at the time" you have to set it to "use True Creation to create a longsword". And all of those longswords will be exactly identical.
The other problem with spell engines is that they take a long time to make. An engine that casts a 4th level spell takes almost a month -- the entire story so far is currently on day 17, where day 1 was when Jake arrived.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (2 days later)
Well, these new mages can cast Wish. And according to the wiki, that can create magical items. So, could that be a shortcut to make spell engines?
Also, given that Jake appeared to make up spells when creating the Rule of Size, and they now work, could those be learned when people go up a level? And could this then be used to make arbitrary spells? Or were those spells already real spells?
u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 days later)
Ah, true. Yes, and yes. And no, the spells Jake Wished up were new...improved versions of existing ones, but new. Hadn't thought about that, and it plays brilliantly into something I was already planning to do. Thanks.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (2 days later)
What limits would there be on these spells? For instance, could you create a level one spell with no XP cost identical to wish? Or one which would ascend you to godhood, or increase your level by 1? These would of course utterly break the story, but everything we've seen so far doesn't indicate any limit. Another visit from Ilara perhaps?
The description for PO says
The new form can range in size from Diminutive to one size larger than the subject's normal form, and can have no more Hit Dice than you have, or that the subject has (whichever is greater), and in any case the assumed form cannot have more than 15 Hit Dice
But fire giants have way more hit dice than 15. Would FLEA still work so well with weaker monsters if they used PO?
The wiki says that you get a maximum of 4 spell slots for each spell level. Assuming this cannot be increased, that would mean you can make 24 mages with PO or 8 with PAO a day, from a group of around 30. You have said that PO works, so that's 5/3 times the total mages a day. I love this idea. If they're left for a week that would be a 35 times increase
u/eaglejarl [+1] (2 days later)
You're looking at this chart, right? http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm
Those are your base spells. You also get extra spells from having high Intelligence (or Charisma for sorcerors): http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm (scroll down to 'Ability Scores'). Plus, if I were using feats and prestige classes you can get extra slots from those too.
Fire giants have 15d8 HD (plus a 72 HP constant) so they are the max you can create. And yes, if I'm being honest, it actually doesn't work because the worms are Fine and the fire giants are Large and I missed that restriction. You can get around this (inefficiently) by sending someone off to find lots of horses or dogs or whatever, bring them back with Teleportation Circle, and using them. Or I could dig through the "creatures by CR" charts again and find some devil or demon that's 10HD and Diminutive. Or by putting Animal Growth on the worms and then turning them into something Medium sized. Or by using a ton more worms. Or by using only PAO instead of PO. I can't bring myself to care enough to rewrite it. Maybe at some point I will, but not today.
As to number of wizards and growth rate: the Big Damn Heroes have a population of 3,000,000 to work with, an unusual percentage of whom (about 5%) have character levels. Many of these folks (about 60%) are casters, and about 60% of casters are arcane casters. That means 54,000 wizards and sorcerors. Of those, a little under 10% are of level 15+, meaning about 5000. Most of those will have the brainpower (either naturally or enhanced) to cast 8th level spells (PAO). Then there's a bunch of lower level folks who can cast PO but not PAO. Long story short, they've got plenty of mages available to run the FLEA.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (2 days later)
Thanks for explaining. How does someone get anywhere near 45 intelligence? Is there a feasible way for Jake to do it? And this means that FLEA could potentially grow even faster. Would it be useful to get some high level people in other classes? Or would that just be a waste of potential wizard?
And is there a way for the other 95% to get character levels?
Incidentally, did Jake investigate getting class levels off screen? It seems the obvious first thing to check after he arrived, but I can't recall him doing so
u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 days later)
You can get an Int in the range of ~30 by having an 18 to start (optionally plus a racial bonus) +5 inherent bonus (Tome of X, or 5 Wishes), and then having a +6 magic item like a Headband of Intellect.
You can maybe boost it a little higher temporarily by using a buff spell (although I'd have to check -- they might all be enhancement bonuses, which wouldn't stack with the Headband). As far as I know, though, there's no way to get a permanent Int higher than ~30 as a human.
What you CAN do, though, is to PAO into a high Int non-human, like a dragon or whatever. You could even PAO into a dragon and then Polymorph Other back into a human; that would leave you with the dragon's mental stats but a human body. I've been debating that but not doing it. Maybe I will at some point.
u/Iconochasm [+2] (2 days later)
18 base. +5 inherent bonus from 20 levels (at each level evenly divisible by 4), +5 inherent bonus from Tomes or wishes, +6 enhancement from an item. 34, or 36 with a +2 racial bonus.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (2 days later)
Ah, right. Forgot the level bonuses. Thanks.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (3 days later)
Fire giants have 15d8 HD (plus a 72 HP constant) so they are the max you can create. And yes, if I'm being honest, it actually doesn't work because the worms are Fine and the fire giants are Large and I missed that restriction. [...] I can't bring myself to care enough to rewrite it. Maybe at some point I will, but not today.
Aaaand, apparently "at some point" means "today." Fixed; they are only using Polymorph Any Object now.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (3 days later)
What limits would there be on these spells? For instance, could you create a level one spell with no XP cost identical to wish? Or one which would ascend you to godhood, or increase your level by 1? These would of course utterly break the story, but everything we've seen so far doesn't indicate any limit.
I forgot to answer this bit.
So far as I'm aware, D&D has basically no rules for researching new spells. There are a couple of mentions of it, but it pretty much comes down to "DM choice." I'm trying to mostly stick with canon rules, so I'll probably do "you can't Wish for spells that are more than slightly improved versions of existing ones" or something like that. Haven't decided yet.
But, yeah, Wishing up too powerful a spell == get bonked by a god. Probably Arros.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 days later)
Would making a spell which affects a single thing a mass spell count as an improvement? Such as, say, Mass PAO. So as to make FLEA even more overpowered.
And as magic items appear to be able to cast limitless spells, could Jake make one to cast Mage's Magnificent Mansion? Given Grofhamr's housing problem. Is there a limit to what level spells an item can cast for him? Because a resurrection wand or an Hourglass of Time Stop seem pretty useful. Could he create an Improved Resurrection which took care of the surprises left by Neklos? Or would that be too large an improvement? And does an improved spell need a higher spell level or cost?
Presumably it couldn't cast infinite Ice Assassins for him though or any other spell with XP cost. Can magic items grant XP or stat points? Or create more magic items? Plus, this seems a definite improvement on spell engines, as they can be customized.
EDIT: Also, is there a limit to how many different kinds of spells an item can cast? It's at least 2, given the Rule of Size, but could you create a, say, Book of Self Improvement which cast every buff spell Jake could find?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (3 days later)
Would making a spell which affects a single thing a mass spell count as an improvement? Such as, say, Mass PAO. So as to make FLEA even more overpowered.
Yes, but Mass PAO would be over the limit. Thinking about it, I'm getting more and more edgy about the idea of custom spells. I think I'm going to have to trot Arros out pretty early on in the process.
And as magic items appear to be able to cast limitless spells, could Jake make one to cast Mage's Magnificent Mansion?
Yep. And it would be a great choice.
Is there a limit to what level spells an item can cast for him?
Nope.
Because a resurrection wand or an Hourglass of Time Stop seem pretty useful.
They're already having enough issues with resurrections that an item of it would probably be unwise. Hourglass of Time Stop would be hella powerful -- Jake thought about putting that into the Eternal Hourglass when he first created it, but decided not to because he didn't want to cross the line with the gods.
Could he create an Improved Resurrection which took care of the surprises left by Neklos?
Nope. Gods trump mortal magic every time.
And does an improved spell need a higher spell level or cost?
Yep.
Can magic items grant XP
Two responses:
- Magic items can act as an XP battery; you create them with XP and then you draw it out for various purposes.
- Stop reading ahead. :P
[can magic items grant] stat points?
Yes. That's what the Headband of Intellect does.
Or create more magic items?
There aren't any canon items that do that, but there's no reason you couldn't Wish one up...except that generating infinite (or very large numbers) of magic items seems like the sort of thing that the gods would step on.
Plus, this seems a definite improvement on spell engines, as they can be customized.
Spell engines are, by definition, customized. You create it to cast whatever spell you want. Although, yes, you're right -- a magic item can fine-tune the effect at the actual moment of casting.
EDIT: Also, is there a limit to how many different kinds of spells an item can cast? It's at least 2, given the Rule of Size, but could you create a, say, Book of Self Improvement which cast every buff spell Jake could find?
There is no canon restriction, no. And there is actually something called a Belt of Magnificence that add +(2,4, or 6) to all of your stats.
It would make a lot of sense to give Jake Wisdom or Charisma boosts. Sadly, doing so would turn him into a Mary Sue and make the story boring. He has two character flaws: he doesn't think things through and, unless he's really focusing on it, he's not very good in social situations. Giving him Wis and Cha boosts would mechanically remove those flaws and remove all real challenge from the story.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 days later)
By granting stat points, I meant could an item permanently grant a stat boost, not just while it is equipped? Or cast stat boosting spells, which could work on multiple people. Also, was the caster level of 1000 a result of Jake using a wish ring rather than casting a spell? Or could a new mage do the same?
And could a pre filled XP battery be wished into existence? Or used to transfer XP between people?
Also, if Jake begins creating more items, a PAO wand would be extremely useful. And if improved spells require a higher level, can 9th level spells not be improved? And can an item cast spells with an XP or material competent?
Jake getting Wisdom or Charisma would break the story, but might make an amusing omake, where he ROFL-stomps all his enemies and ascends to godhood. Which I would totally love to read. Just putting that out there
u/eaglejarl [+1] (3 days later)
By granting stat points, I meant could an item permanently grant a stat boost, not just while it is equipped?
Yes. There's a series of items called "Manual of Bodily Health", "Tome of ", etc that grant inherent bonuses to stats. They take a week to read though.
Or cast stat boosting spells, which could work on multiple people.
Yep, those can be done.
Also, was the caster level of 1000 a result of Jake using a wish ring rather than casting a spell? Or could a new mage do the same?
A magic item that you make normally, the caster level is the level of the mage creating it. Something created with a Wish (from spell or item) can have whatever limit you want. (I think. There might be some rules about that, but none that I'm aware of.)
And could a pre filled XP battery be wished into existence? Or used to transfer XP between people?
Yes. Also, when crafting magic items you can have multiple people cooperate so that one person pays the XP and another does the casting or etc.
Also, if Jake begins creating more items, a PAO wand would be extremely useful. And if improved spells require a higher level, can 9th level spells not be improved? And can an item cast spells with an XP or material competent?
Respectively: True, correct, and sort of. By default, an item has no XP in it so it cannot be used to cast spells that require XP. That said, you can create an item that has XP in it. See the author's note at the bottom of Chapter 26
Jake getting Wisdom or Charisma would break the story, but might make an amusing omake, where he ROFL-stomps all his enemies and ascends to godhood. Which I would totally love to read. Just putting that out there
Heh. Yeah, that could be fun. Maybe I'll do that.
u/tilkau [+1] (a day later)
I think high level wizards are probably a lot like nukes: You want to think very carefully about how many you keep around, even if, in theory, you could have as many as you want.
(Last I checked, the wizards are already a bit unhappy with Jake. This scheme should ultimately not help that, as it doesn't help any of them gain economic advantage over the other, it just raises all their abilities a fixed amount, meaning that Jake has just greatly enhanced their ability to express their unhappiness destructively.)
u/eaglejarl [+2] (a day later)
Heh. True.
Under the current situation, though, they really do want to have a lot of them. They are HEAVILY outnumbered in the 'very powerful mage' department.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (2 days later)
The Flobovian wizards may be annoyed, but the Deorsi seem like they'd love him. He's massively helped them and is currently destroying their enemies.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 days later)
The Flobovian wizards can (and will) also be run through the FLEA and amped up to mega levels. At some point I'll probably include a casual reference to "So, Isaac, how does it feel to be 30th level?" or something like that.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (2 days later)
What are Flobovian population figures?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (2 days later)
About 28 million. The demographics are very different, however. Anundjå is comprised of a bunch of refugees from an apocalypse; character-leveled folks have been selected for, especially casters and especially casters of high enough level to teleport away from, or blow the crap out of, the things that are trying to suck out their tasty lifeforce. Also, there has been a ton of combat, so they have leveled pretty quickly.
Flobovia, on the other hand, is a country of rich farmers and merchants that hasn't had anything more dangerous than a few bandit raids in centuries. Furthermore, it was settled by a bunch of refugees from the fall of Ainaalacar; the area they settled was uninhabited and out in the boondocks when they got there (that's why they chose that place), so there aren't really any ancient ruins or long-lost dungeons to explore. The ones that there were have been picked over pretty thoroughly in the last 5800 years, so any adventurers that do come along have to leave the country to find any adventures worth the name.
Most Flobovians who gain class levels are doing it with an eye towards commerce: lots of fighters for caravan guards, bodyguards, etc. Lots of thieves because there's craptons of money floating around. (Even before Jake broke the economy.) Casters are mostly priests, and most people have strong local ties -- family and businesses -- that mean they don't go adventuring, so they level relatively slowly.
Flobovia is 28 million. Of that, about 0.1% (28,000) have character levels. Of THOSE, only about 10% (2,800) are casters -- most are some sort of martial class or rogues. Of casters, it's a 30/70 split between arcane and divine (840 arcane) and the level percentages skew heavily to the bottom: about 70% from levels 1-7, 29% from levels 8-14, and 1% levels 15+. In short, when Jake arrived he was greeted by 3 of the 8 Archmagi in the entire country.
It's a little better on the divine side, but not much. 2800 casters, 70% divine (1960), and the levels go about the same: 70/29/1, meaning in the entire country you have about 20 clerics and druids of levels 15+. And the druids mostly stay out in the woods and don't interact with people very much. The Archpriest and the Dark Lady are the only people in Capital City capable of casting True Resurrection.
u/None [+2] (2 days later)
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u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 days later)
That is...a very good point. Thank you, I'll look into that.
I think it could easily get to the point where the gating factor on number of casters produced per day is the number of worms available. :)
u/None [+1] (2 days later)
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u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 days later)
Got bored and found the Gray Linnrom in MMII (pg141) which is a CR20 dragon with only 13HD. [...] Only downside is they are huge so it will take polymorph any object instead of polymorph other if the FLEA is going to run on worms.
I realized after the fact that Polymorph Other doesn't actually work. :( It can only change something by one size category; worms are Fine and fire giants are Large, so that doesn't fit. So, I guess the FLEA runs on PAO until I can find a Dimunitive creature with a high enough CR to be worth it.
Problem with the Gray Linnorm: it has SR and DR 15/+1. The wall of force isn't a +1 or better weapon, so it can't actually hurt a GL. Which is stupid but that's why they call it Stupidworld.
http://monsterfinder.dndrunde.de/ tells me that there are several (Fine or Diminutive) creatures with CR(6-15), but all of them are swarms and so not good candidates.
Could use black puddings, I suppose. They split, and if you can keep feeding them temporary HP so they stay above 10 HP, then you can split them indefinitely.
As to the rate of caster increase -- the new ones need to rest and rememorize before they can participate, or it would be truly ridiculous. Although...hm. The Landguard all have Fortifying Bedrolls (which is why Duncan can do a 23-hour/day punishment schedule). If they loaned those out to the new casters, you could have the noobs online in 2 hours. That's pretty sick. Wow.
u/None [+1] (3 days later)
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u/eaglejarl [+1] (3 days later)
Ah, very cool. Thanks, that will work nicely.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (2 days later)
Could they give random commoners character levels? And didn't they gave a scheme about using PAO like Afi to create a supply of people with appropriate stats for having character levels?
u/eaglejarl [+2] (4 days later)
Yes they can, actually. pareus made that point in the comment below; it wasn't something I'd thought about -- I'm still used to the D&D 2nd Ed thing where most people are level 0 commoners who don't advance. Apparently, though, it's totally doable.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (4 days later)
So, given sufficient time, he can get 20-30 million high levelled characters? Accounting for children and the elderly. How many do the Lich kings have? And could he use PAO to produce more people to increase in level?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (4 days later)
Grofhamr is 3 million, Flobovia is 28. Assuming that 70% of those are adults then yes, about 20 million megamages. Given time. They can only run 14400 people through per day per FLEA, so even setting up a lot of these things it would take some time.
The Lich Kings converted a society of 1 billion people, plus a large but unknown number of Underdark dwellers. Many of those had character levels and, being functionally immortal, many of them were quite high level. These people were preferentially targeted for conversion during the initial blitzkrieg. Exact numbers aren't available, but it's safe to assume that the Lich Kings have AT LEAST 50 million mid- or high-level casters.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (4 days later)
Should FLEA not grow exponentially? Each caster can cast 8-12 PAO spells a day, they use around 30 per person, so the total should grow by around a third a day. Assuming that he leaves most of the casters in FLEA until it is finished, and infinite earthworms, and no PAO wand
Also, i believe you mentioned that this is only day 17. It feels way longer. Do you have plans for a time skip or anything like that? Because when it was established that Jake has a limited time to rule, i presumed that that would be relevant later, but at this rate you will never reach 2 years
u/eaglejarl [+1] (4 days later)
Should FLEA not grow exponentially? Each caster can cast 8-12 PAO spells a day, they use around 30 per person, so the total should grow by around a third a day. Assuming that he leaves most of the casters in FLEA until it is finished, and infinite earthworms, and no PAO wand
Yes, true. I'll have to do the math to see how long it takes.
Also, i believe you mentioned that this is only day 17. It feels way longer. Do you have plans for a time skip or anything like that? Because when it was established that Jake has a limited time to rule, i presumed that that would be relevant later, but at this rate you will never reach 2 years
"Feels longer" => good. That means there's been a lot of engaging elements. :)
Timeskip: I plan to finish the Drauga War cycle. I may or may not continue on after that. If I did, I would probably try to make some money off it, through a Patreon or such. Writing 2YE takes a LOT of my time and energy; I've been doing it for a year now, and I'm starting to think that a break would be nice after I finish this. Then again, I didn't expect to end up writing a 250,000 word epic when I sat down to write "a fun little D&D short story." We'll see what happens.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (4 days later)
Assuming you start with around 10000 casters, it could get to 20 million in around a month, at 10 spells per caster and 30 spells per user, assuming infinite objects to polymorph
Can you legally make money from of 2YE? As fanfiction, i would've thought that the owners of D&D hold the intellectual property
u/eaglejarl [+1] (4 days later)
They hold the copyright for D&D, but it's easy to reskin it to avoid use of their copyrighted material. Stop calling it "Mage's Magnificent Mansion" (which is already a genericified version of "Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion") and call it "Ethereal Abode" and you're all good. Obviously, also remove mention of specific elements such as "move actions" etc.
If you go over to http://greendogpress.blogspot.com you'll find that I'm selling "One Hot Night", a novella spun off from 2YE. It's based in Anundjå in the Time Before. The premise is that Ingfred is a young man in his late 20s, living in a society where everyone is immortal. He's got no great prospects, but he's got an entrepreneurial spirit and a fire in his belly. He comes up with a get-rich-quick plan: undergo a somewhat illegal transformation, then sell the memory to The Experiential Herald for a fortune. He has two problems: how can he convince Master High Mage Calder to risk his Mage license by doing the transformation...and how does he deal with the legal problems afterwards?
It's on sale for $1; I wrote it as the MVP to see if anyone would pay for my writing. I've had a few sales so far and the feedback I've received has been positive.