24 KiB
Completed rational fiction?
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Author: u/None *
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URL:
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Score: 16
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Created: 2014-08-26T06:10:40
Post:
[deleted]
Comments:
u/None [+22] (8 hours later)
Branches on the Tree of Time is a completed, comparitively short Terminator fic that I enjoyed immensely.
u/alexanderwales [+9] Time flies like an arrow (2 days later)
Thanks for the recommendation, glad you liked it.
u/tinkady [+8] (3 days later)
I recommend literally everything by this guy right here ^
u/abstractwhiz [+6] Friendly Eldritch Abomination (9 hours later)
I'll second that. The author takes the Terminatorverse form of time travel up to eleven, and then resets the scale and does it again. And again. And again. It's glorious.
u/gabbalis [+2] (15 hours later)
In fact id just read everything under that author.
u/Bobertus [+18] (3 hours later)
Luminosity. It's a twilight fanfic, but that shouldn't deterre anyone. I'm pretty sure it has been posted on this sub already.
u/noggin-scratcher [+12] I am a happy tree (4 hours later)
I'm about to start Worm
So... we've got what, a few months to think of some recommendations?
u/None [+2] (4 hours later)
[deleted]
u/TimTravel [+14] (8 hours later)
About three times as long as the entire LOTR trilogy.
u/noggin-scratcher [+3] I am a happy tree (4 hours later)
By my count, 297 chapters. None of them are particularly short, and as it goes on they get noticeably longer than in the opening arcs.
I can't remember the wordcount offhand, but I remember it being on the scale of approximately 1 to 1.5 million.
It's pretty long. I'm not a slow reader; I would also probably expect a re-read of HPMoR to take me on the order of a week, but not Worm.
u/Escapement [+8] Ankh-Morpork City Watch (5 hours later)
Worm is closer to 2 million words than 1; so at a rate of 500 kilowords/week, it's about a month of reading.
u/CopperZirconium [+4] (16 hours later)
I think "kilowords" is my new favorite unit of measurement. Thank you for that!
u/None [+3] (7 days later)
you can read it in a week if you only pretend to work at work
u/mynoduesp [+1] (a day later)
It took me about 3 weeks to a month of feverous reading
u/tinkady [+2] (3 days later)
Scrub, I've done that in less than 3 days. Twice. Plus other times in more than 3 days
u/Gauntlet [+1] (a month later)
Could someone provide a link. I can't seem to find it and it seems to be mentioned in every thread.
u/noggin-scratcher [+1] I am a happy tree (a month later)
Chapter 1 is at http://parahumans.wordpress.com/2011/06/11/1-1/
Was going to link the main page then realised it has the final chapter up front...
u/CopperZirconium [+7] (16 hours later)
I liked Embers. It's an Avatar the Last Airbender fanfic. The characters aren't rationalist, but the world is more rational, consistent, and "realistic" than canon and the "bad guys" have logical reasons to be what they are.
u/TimTravel [+1] (3 days later)
+1
u/Kodix [+0] (5 days later)
Well, I'm 4 chapters deep now and I'm not so sure I'll get any sleep tonight. Thanks. I think.
u/TimTravel [+12] (an hour later)
Worm! I loved it. Definitely recommend.
u/Riddle-Tom_Riddle [+4] (9 hours later)
There's a song that fits really well with the end of Worm.
OP, write a note for yourself or something.
Edit:
I can't find the original version I used to listen to on YouTube, so that sucks.
(Something interesting, tangentially related: I had purchased their album after listening to this song a bunch of times on YouTube - if not for the HQ version being on YT, I'd have likely not even considered it)
Thanks to u/TimTravel for help with the spoiler.
u/RMcD94 [+3] (a day later)
Dude use a spoiler tag
u/tvcgrid [+2] (24 days later)
Huh, cool.
I'd also recommend Alive by Daft Punk for the many intense scenes. There's this great, layered beat and it has this awe-inspiring quality that I associate with particular setups in Worm. And it keeps on building and building and changing...
(best with headphones)
u/aarchaput [+1] (10 hours later)
I want.
u/TimTravel [+1] (10 hours later)
?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (16 hours later)
Sign me up!
u/whywhisperwhy [+1] (16 hours later)
Please do.
u/omgimpwned [+1] Sunshine Regiment (a day later)
Do want.
u/khafra [+1] (a day later)
There's a song that fits really well with the end of Worm.
Let's hear it--also whatever fits the end of Pact, when we get there.
u/PrinceofMagnets [+1] (a day later)
Put me on the list yo
u/dhighway61 [+1] (2 days later)
I want to hear this song, as well.
u/miningzen [+1] (2 days later)
song me batman
u/None [+1] (2 days later)
[deleted]
u/Riddle-Tom_Riddle [+1] (2 days later)
This is the second time someone has told me to include a spoiler tag. The first time I thought they were joking, but could you elaborate on where the tag would be necessary?
u/TimTravel [+1] (3 days later)
I think he was saying it would be better to just post the link under a spoiler tag than to PM people with it.
u/Riddle-Tom_Riddle [+1] (3 days later)
That doesn't work for me, on mobile.
I tried to upload a screenshot, but I'm having technical difficulties that I don't really want to spend time on right now.*"DOOOOOOOOOM!"*This tends to work in a way that hides. It may or may not allow viewing of the contents based on subreddit css but view source reveals the password is
u/TimTravel [+1] (3 days later)
Yeah, nothing works on mobile. maybe this?
u/Riddle-Tom_Riddle [+1] (3 days later)
Huh, that works. It gives me:
SPOILER!
but it's a clickable link. When clicking on it, I get a messagebox that says:
potato rhymes with doom / maybe this?
I suppose that'll do.
Thank you. :)
u/Riddle-Tom_Riddle [+1] (3 days later)
Alright, it(my OP) looks fine on my end, but I don't have a PC to test it on.
How does it look for you?
u/TimTravel [+1] (3 days later)
Looks fine.
u/Riddle-Tom_Riddle [+1] (3 days later)
Cool, thanks.
u/Charlie___ [+6] (20 hours later)
You might like Greg Egan's fiction if you're okay with lots of science-wanking (I like it myself, but I calls 'em like I sees 'em). Incandescence probably being the most munchkiney.
You've read Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson, right? His other stuff is also excellent.
The Discworld books by Terry Pratchett. I predict you'd enjoy starting with one or two of the following: Going Postal, Jingo, the Wee Free Men, Thief of Time. You can worry about going back and reading the longer storylines once hooked :P
Things alexanderwales has written on fanfiction.net.
Veritas, a superman fic by ShaneT.
u/qznc [+1] Chaos Legion (5 days later)
With Terry Pratchett you can simply look for the characters. Granny Weatherwax and Tiffany Aching are quite rationalist characters. Moist von Lipwig is a con man with great rational plot twists. Lord Vetinari is also (too?) awesome, but never a main character. Carrot and Rincewind and wizard stories are not rational.
u/Oraanu [+5] (a day later)
The Metropolitan Man - Superman. Lex Luthor is the protagonist. No other knowledge of DC superheroes required.
Inviolate Also Lex Luthor protagonist, many more characters from the DCU (so some googling may be required unless you read a lot of comics). Honestly one of my favorite fanfiction stories I've found to date.
Time Braid - Groundhog's Day style time loop in the Naruto verse. More munchkin-y than rationalist. Contains sexual themes.
(also Luminosity is excellent, but is already mentioned in another comment).
u/None [+1] (2 days later)
Inviolate does not require extensive knowledge of the DC universe. I appreciated it thoroughly while never having heard of the Manhunters, the Guardians of Oa, the names and exploits of the various Green Lanterns, et cetera. There's always a hint of exposition for characters that are mentioned incidentally and additional exposition for the important players.
u/Oraanu [+1] (2 days later)
Same here for previous knowledge, I just needed to look up things so I could visualize them properly.
u/Magodo [+7] Ankh-Morpork City Watch (56 minutes later)
Please start on Worm asap, you'll be hooked within the close of the first chapter.
There is also Dune by Frank Herbert a soft sci-fi epic.
If you're in the mood for medieval fiction I highly recommend Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follet. While it isn't exactly rational, it definitely has some very smart characters.
u/TimTravel [+2] (8 hours later)
Does Dune get better? I didn't like the first one. Too much Gandalf syndrome (when one of the good guys is too powerful).
u/alexanderwales [+13] Time flies like an arrow (9 hours later)
In my opinion, Dune gets worse at it goes.
u/Magodo [+1] Ankh-Morpork City Watch (a day later)
Do you mean the original book? Or the sequels?
I honestly loved the first book and was binging on it not unlike Metropolitan Man. But I did read it a long time ago.
u/alexanderwales [+5] Time flies like an arrow (a day later)
I loved the first book. I thought that the second and third books weren't as good. And then the fourth book wasn't as good as the third book, and the fifth book wasn't as good as the fourth. It's not an instant decline in quality, but I felt like reading less-good books down the series sort of soiled my love for the first book, in the way that poor sequels can sometimes taint the well.
u/None [+2] (2 days later)
[removed]
u/None [+2] (5 days later)
Your comment has been removed for talking about books that don't exist.
u/JackStargazer [+3] Primordial Apologist (6 days later)
I apologize profusely for even thinking about them.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (16 hours later)
You need to read the books in the right order. Some series, you want to read them in published order (i.e. read the first, the second, the third...) and some you want to read in in-universe chronological order (e.g. read the third, the fifth, the first...)
The correct order for Dune is: read the first.
If you didn't like the first one, stop.
u/TimTravel [+1] (18 hours later)
Yeah, that was the one I read. It had its moments but I didn't like it overall.
u/Sceptically [+1] (2 days later)
I'd have to slightly disagree with that. Even if you did like the first one, stop after the first.
u/noggin-scratcher [+2] I am a happy tree (19 hours later)
I liked the fourth book a fair bit, not sure about more than the original, but more than the second and third. But if your objection to the first one is "That one guy is too powerful" then oh holy hell would you ever not like number four. "God Emperor" was not a title that was applied ironically.
u/None [+2] (10 hours later)
I honestly hated worm. I read the first three chapters, and it really put me off from reading anything beyond. It felt like it was the universe itself that was holding the idiot ball. Most of the villains are villians because they're evil, and little else (rather counter to the claim that it's rational at all), and the main character's personality is completely inconsistent and all over the place. She does these enormously stupid things, but the universe itself caters to her, preventing any real harm. Plus, she (and several other characters) do some of the most immoral things without thinking twice. If I was in her situation, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night over the guilt.
u/thakil [+3] (a day later)
Yeaaaah. I read the whole thing and wasn't sure I could recommend it to people. It's fun in places, but there are problems. I really wasn't a fan of the very squicky and visceral violence that crops up, especially when a certain gang arrives in town. I also think the plot meanders a lot and could stand to be a lot shorter. Even by the later chapters there are some remarkably inconsequential fights that could be excised at absolutely no story cost.
u/Bowbreaker [+4] Solitary Locust (a day later)
Yeesh. It shows that you only read the first 3 chapters. There is only 1 villain who is shown as Evil (with capital E and little by the way of justifications, believes or motives) till the end. The character seemed pretty focused and understandable (if not always rational, but what normal human is?). And the part about real harm made me laugh out so loud I almost woke up the people around me.
But seeing how you were already put off by immoral things in the first 3 chapters I wouldn't recommend you to read on. The first 3 chapters are so tame compared to some of the later parts that I can't quite put it into words.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (16 hours later)
It obviously wasn't rationalist, and it wasn't even terribly rational. It was fairly munckinly, although the protagonist was the only one who was allowed to munchkin her powers. Doormaker alone should have been able to be hugely more powerful than he was. Don't even get me started on the tinkers, or on Dragon. And, as soobtoob says, there was no reason for most of the villains to be evil -- they could have just marketed their powers legally, made WAY more money than crime at lower risk, and called it a day.
All that aside, I enjoyed the beginning quite a bit. At some point (when is arguable) it ramped the power level of the villains too high and just became bloody annoying. Fights against demigods are only interesting for so long, at least when the demigods are onstage. IMO you can get away with more when they are the (Wo)man Behind The Curtain, but these were straight up brawls.
u/notentirelyrandom [+2] (19 hours later)
Spoilers! [Yup, lots of spoilers.] (#s "Doormaker is brain-dead, Cauldron can't market their stuff because not enough people would try the dangerous experimental formulas (and those are the important ones), and the tinkers, like all parahumans, are driven to conflict by their passengers and the Endbringers. A lot of bad decisions can be justified by alien mind control. I agree with you about Scion being too powerful of a villain, but not any of the earlier fights.")
u/eaglejarl [+1] (22 hours later)
Yeah, I knew those things but was trying to keep it simple and avoid spoilers.
I knew that about Doormaker but the people he worked for could still have used his powers to make a mint, control huge amounts of political and economic power, eliminated transportation costs for anyone they wanted something from...instead they used him to visit their vacation homes, basically. (They had wealth and power, true, but that seemed to derive from their business, not from use of Doormaker et al.)
And yes, the "whole driver for conflict" thing, but that's a complete f'ing copout. Really? If that's the only way the story you want to write can be justified, you need to back up and try something else, because that is a literary cheat of the highest order. Basically that's saying "all conflict in the story, and the fact that literally everyone except the protagonist is either using their powers non-optimally or outright carrying the idiot ball is because plot."
I also include the Endbringers in the "demigod" category. And no, that's not a spoiler. They get mentioned as "thing that periodically destroys cities" within a chapter or two, and it is instantly obvious that there is, at some point, going to be a fight with them.
u/alexanderwales [+1] Time flies like an arrow (a day later)
And yes, the "whole driver for conflict" thing, but that's a complete f'ing copout. Really? If that's the only way the story you want to write can be justified, you need to back up and try something else, because that is a literary cheat of the highest order. Basically that's saying "all conflict in the story, and the fact that literally everyone except the protagonist is either using their powers non-optimally or outright carrying the idiot ball is because plot."
I had that problem too. Worm was pretty obviously trying to do its deconstruction/reconstruction of the superhero genre, but I think that particular plot point was, if not poorly thought out, then at least not to my tastes. If the promise is that you're going to explain how the world ends up looking like it does in the comics (which I thought was the promise of the work), then what was done was, as you said, a cheat.
I guess I don't see what would have been so bad about having the world actually change in response to people having superpowers. If you've got a guy with lightning powers, you need a really good reason for him to be out fighting crime instead of just working safely in a power plant.
u/None [+1] (2 days later)
Cauldron could do a lot more with marketing and pricing with a side black market for the more risky stuff.
u/Cruithne [+1] Light Sith epistemologist (5 months later)
[Spoiler] (#s "For Cauldron, money was never the issue. They have The Number Man. And most of the villains aren't after money- E88 are after their racist cause, the ABB also has an ideology, Coil is after money, but his power works much better for criminal wealth acquisition, and he also wants power. Also, Taylor wasn't the only one to munchkin her powers. Scapegoat discovered his healing ability via munchkining iirc, Newter and Gregor the Snail make a good pair for a munchkining duo, Bonesaw does some creative and twisted things with her power. With regards to your comment below- the money they'd make from Doormaker would be nothing compared to the loss. His power has very finite reserve, and they desperately needed that.")
u/Magodo [+1] Ankh-Morpork City Watch (a day later)
If you're willing, please give it another chance. I heard similar things from friends but I convinced them to stick on at least to the end of the first arc when things really start rolling.
u/rationalidurr [-1] If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! (11 hours later)
I get worse as it goes on, plot holes all over the place. Its good for munchkin ideas however, so if you feel like reading something with clever power usage then it can be an interesting read, just don't get attached to any smart ideas or characters.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (a day later)
What holes are you thinking of?
u/rationalidurr [+3] If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! (2 days later)
rot 13 is your friend
Fpvba orvat haqrgrpgnoyr ol nalbar orfvqrf gur snpg gung ur pnhfrf na ryrpgebavp vagresrerapr, n fvzcyr genpxvat cebtenz bs angvbaf zbovyr be ryrpgevpny freivpr jbhyq erirny n genpxvat cnggre nyy bire gur tybor. Fvzhetu orvat pnyyrq Fvzhetu naq abg Mvm orpnhfr nccneragyl jura fur svefg nccrnerq crbcyr gubhtug gung fur jnf na nyvra, arire zvaq gur snpg gung fur, nppbeqvat gb habssvpvny gvzryvar naq puncgre vasbezngvba, neevirq va gur rknpg 4 zbagu vagreiny sebz gur yngrfg Raqoevtare nggnpx, nyy bs juvpu unir orra bppheevat sbe dhvgr fbzr gvzr. Fb gb erpnc vg tbrf yvxr guvf enqvngvba + rnegudhnxrf, 4 zbagu crnpr, sybbqvat naq gfhanzvf, 4 zbagu crnpr naq fb ba naq fb sbegu, naq gura ba bar qnl Mvm neevirf naq rirelobql, gbja crbcyr naq gur tbireazrag vapyhqrq trg n FNA cbvag ybff naq fbzrubj fgneg n jne. Guvf jnf Fjvgmreynaq ol gur jnl naq abg fbzr 3eq jbeyq pbhagel, ohg Fjvgmreynaq gur shyyl cerccrq, nhgb ergver byq crbcyr, shyy oybja shpx gur jne arhgenyvgl Fjvgmreynaq. V qba'g unir gur oenva fgngr gb tb shyyl ba guvf fhowrpg evtug abj naljnl orpnhfr vs V qvq guvf jbhyq or n ubyr ybg ovttre cbfg.
Fpvba genpxvat unf nabgure checbfr ogj, oybpxvat cerpbtf. Vs lbh'er n pbhagel gung pna unir nyy bs vg'f frpergf naq cnffjbeq oebxra ol n srj crbcyr va gvtugf, lbh jbhyq anghenyyl ybbx sbe jnlf gb cerirag gung. Naq fb sne nyy bs cerpbtf naq bgure Guvaxref unir snvyrq gb cerqvpg Fpvba, fher jbhyq or hfrshy gb hfr Fpvbaf zbirzragf sbe rapelcgvat naq enaqbzvmvat lbhe qrpvfvbaf naq qngn.
Naq lbh unir gb erzrzore urer, Fpvba fubjrq hc va 1982 naq Mvm fubjrq hc va 2003, ner lbh gryyvat zr gurer jrer ab cerpbtf hc gb gung cbvag be gung gur crbcyr va punetr bs qrsraqvat qvqa'g guvax bs hfvat Fpvba?
Naq guvf nyy vf jung V pbhyq guvax bs ng gung zbzrag jura jevgvat gurer vf n ybg zber cybgubyyrel gb or sbhaq vs lbh gnxr gur fpravp ebhgr bs erernqvat gur jubyr fgbel.
Guvf cnfgrova pbagnvaf fbzr zber cybg ubyrf naq zl erfcbafrf gb bgure crbcyr, ohg vg vf jevggra va natre jvgu n pbaqrfpraqvat favqr nggvghqr, vg trg orggre nf vg tbrf ba, ohg ernq ng lbhe bja qvfpergvba.
uggc://cnfgrova.pbz/AAC2tKu3
u/None [+2] (2 days later)
Gurl znantr gb genpx gur Fvzhetu va beovg, gubhtu gung qbrfa'g gryy gurz jura fur jvyy arkg nggnpx. Gurl znantr gb genpx gur grpgbavp rssrpgf bs Orurzbgu. Gurl znantr gb cerqvpg gur arkg Yrivnguna fgevxr npphengryl ng yrnfg bapr. Gurve ceboyrzf nevfr znvayl jura gur Raqoevatref fgneg gryrcbegvat. Ohg gur cnfgrova vf fcbg ba, nf ner gur bgure bowrpgvbaf.
u/Bowbreaker [+2] Solitary Locust (a day later)
I'm curious about those holes too. Care to PM to avoid spoilers for the others who haven't read it?
u/TimTravel [+3] (2 hours later)
There was a manga... Liar Game I think. It was good. I don't know if it's completed or not though. The girl is just a placeholder protagonist but the guy is pretty smart.
u/Subrosian_Smithy [+1] Nudist Beach (3 days later)
I absolutely second this. YMMV on the 'rationality' but I feel it was enjoyable regardless.
u/qznc [+1] Chaos Legion (5 days later)
It is also a tv show. Somewhat cheesy but entertaining.
u/None [+2] (3 days later)
Stargate SG-1: Maybourne Unleashed A short fic set in the Stargate universe