53 KiB
[MK] The Two Year Emperor, Chapter 59: Lunch and a Cheap Suit
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Author: u/eaglejarl *
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URL: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9669819/59/The-Two-Year-Emperor
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Score: 21
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Created: 2014-08-30T10:18:47
Post:
Comments:
u/miningzen [+11] (3 hours later)
Anyone else twitch when he handed the wish-based magical item to a non-landguard mage?
u/alexanderwales [+3] Time flies like an arrow (6 hours later)
Couldn't they just wish up another one if they lost this one? Or are you worried about someone having access to the same magic?
u/Zephyr1011 [+3] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (6 hours later)
It's useful, sure, but he has effectively free wishes now with FLEA. The only loss would be his enemies gaining it, and they can surely wish their own
u/miningzen [+1] (a day later)
Sorry, my memory is fuzzy, I thought that the magical items were made with wishes beyond normal capacity.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (a day later)
Any wizard above level 19 can cast Wish, a 9th level spell, equivalent to what Jake used from the rings. It has an XP cost of 5000, but that's not an issue for Jake
u/miningzen [+1] (2 days later)
or his faction, at this point. That means, barring the divine restriction, infinite wishes. Would wishing for on the surface useful but actually cursed magic items and accidentally losing them near afi be a legitimate strategy?
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (2 days later)
Afi is too smart to fall for such an obvious trap. Besides, with all his resources, I'm sure he can cast wish arbitrarily many times himself
u/Empiricist_or_not [+2] Aspiring polite Hegemonizing swarm (4 hours later)
A-yup. I'm putting that one in Chekhov's armory for now.
u/Chronophilia [+2] sci-fi ≠ futurology (4 hours later)
Considering the sheer number of ways to impersonate or mind-control someone in this universe, up to and including Ice Assassins? Yes.
u/Chronophilia [+8] sci-fi ≠ futurology (an hour later)
I hate gods.
If Arros' behaviour shows how the gods normally treat humans who are on their side, Loki's been impossibly nice to Jake so far.
I think Loki has a more personal stake in this matter. If this was just the war between the gods, Team Life vs Team Death, then you'd expect all the Team Life gods to be equally helpful to the humans, modulo differences in personality. And the God Of Playing Cruel Pranks is not the one that you'd expect to be straightforward.
Either that or Arros doesn't care as much as Loki about the outcome of the war. Afi's minions have a lot of spellcasters among them, so Arros doesn't really stand to lose a lot if Team Life dies out. Not as much as the God of Chaos loses if everybody is replaced by mindless servants.
Yeah, that's probably it actually. Still, I'm keeping an eye on Loki's motivations. There's a lot we don't know.
u/eaglejarl [+7] (2 hours later)
Yeah, that's probably it actually. Still, I'm keeping an eye on Loki's motivations. There's a lot we don't know.
I'm taking a somewhat non-standard view of Loki. In many of the myths he was a cruel, evil trickster, and he had a big hand in setting off Ragnarok. In some myths, he was an ally of humanity -- he taught them how to make fishing nets, for example.
The Loki I'm using leans more towards the later view, and is heavily mixed in with Coyote and other trickster gods. The "trickster is evil becuase plot" thing bores me; I wanted someone more mercurial and unpredictable.
There is at least one more major reveal related to the gods that will clarify your questions. Right now, I don't think I've given out enough information for people to reasonably figure out why everyone is doing the things they're doing. I promise I'll get there, though.
u/Chronophilia [+2] sci-fi ≠ futurology (3 hours later)
Since I've got your attention, here's something that's been puzzling me: The Edict is basically "don't do anything that might let you ascend to godhood". But that doesn't match up with last week's talk about godhood theory: gods start out as stories, not people. You can't actually ascend to godhood... can you?
u/eaglejarl [+4] (6 hours later)
Yep, you can. There is even an canonical example of someone who ascended, although it was a blink-and-you'll-miss-it reference.
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (7 hours later)
I vaguely recall something about Shailos ascending 6000 years ago, or being younger. Although I may be confusing 2YE with other things I've been reading
u/eaglejarl [+3] (10 hours later)
You are not. Congratulations on not blinking. :)
u/failed_novelty [+2] (4 hours later)
Why not? After all, if someone does enough legendary things, they become legends themselves. And it's a small step from praying that a god will save you to praying that the legendary hero (who lives just over that hill) will save you. Once you've had a 'Big Damn Heroes' moment a few times and saved the day for people who were praying you would (even if you didn't know they were)...well, at that point you're probably at least half-way towards having honest-to-you worshipers.
u/Chronophilia [+3] sci-fi ≠ futurology (5 hours later)
Excellent point. But then what does that have to do with infinite-wish loops? Are we expecting people to pray that Jake the Lord High Munchkin will save the day? Considering that the gods react in seconds to the Ring of Three Wishes exploit, that seems like overkill.
Particularly since they don't seem to mind the FLEA, which is just as likely to produce legend-tier heroes.
u/failed_novelty [+6] (6 hours later)
The gods most likely LOVE FLEA. FLEA gets lots of people up to high level, which means they don't need to be saved as much. That means they'll look to other people to save them far less. Also, it generates at least some clerics of different gods (though they are focusing on a single deity at the moment).
Lots of high-level people means that there's more powerful worshipers, and when level 60 people are common, it's a lot harder for a single person (or party) to become legendary.
Infinite Wish loops are a threat to the gods because they can produce a single mortal (or group of mortals) with improbable levels of power. Individuals or groups about whom tales will be told...and those tales are a form of power.
How many people will tell tales about how bravely Flobova shouted 'Reducio' to slaughter unsuspecting monsters in a trap that others prepared? Especially when there are 300 others who have the same story?
u/Chronophilia [+3] sci-fi ≠ futurology (6 hours later)
There's one more detail to consider. In D&D 3.5, the gods are "just" extremely powerful Outsiders with infinite spells per day and a wide assortment of powers and immunities that dwarf anything mortals have access to.
They can still be killed by dropping their HP to 0. Maybe they're worried that will happen to them if they let one person get too much power.
u/JackStargazer [+3] Primordial Apologist (10 hours later)
Basically. by far the most powerful divine ability "Alter Reality" is just wish at will with the restrictions cut off.
Alter Reality
Prerequisite:
Cha 29.
Benefit:
This ability is similar to the wish spell. The deity merely thinks of something and then makes it so. Doing this requires at least a standard action.
Notes
The deity can duplicate any spell of 9th level or lower as a standard action. The duplicated spell has no material or XP component, and the DC of its saving throw (if one is allowed) is 20 + the deity’s rank + the deity’s Charisma modifier.
The deity also can duplicate a spell with any metamagic feat (so long as the metamagic feat is available to characters of 20th level or lower). This use of the ability requires the deity to rest for 1 round for each level that the feat would normally add to the spell. It still takes a standard action to use this ability, so there is no point in using the ability to duplicate a quickened spell.
The deity can render a magical or supernatural effect permanent. The rest requirement varies with the effect: 10 minutes per level of the effect times the number of subjects affected, 10 minutes per total Hit Dice of creatures affected, or 10 minutes per 10-foot cube affected. Use the highest applicable value.
The deity can create temporary, nonmagical objects. This works like the Create Object ability (including the required rest period), except that the items last one day per rank.
The deity also can create permanent nonmagical objects as if using the Create Object ability except that all rest requirements are doubled and there is no reduction in rest time for being on an Outer Plane or in the deity’s own realm.
The deity can create temporary magic items or creatures. This works like the Divine Creation ability (including the required rest period), except that the items or creatures created last 1 hour per rank. This ability cannot create permanent magic items or creatures.
The deity can reshape a landscape, creating any type of terrain the deity can imagine. Each 10-foot cube of material to be reshaped requires 1 round of effort, and the deity must rest for one day per 10-foot cube shaped after the work is completed.You'll notice I scratched out a lot of that. That's because it will never, ever be used. Because there is a spell, somewhere that does it better than that paragraph, and the deity can cast that spell with the ability.
I mean seriously, who writes this?
u/Chronophilia [+1] sci-fi ≠ futurology (3 hours later)
No problem, I love puzzling this stuff out. Even if I am completely wrong.
u/JackStargazer [+6] Primordial Apologist (3 hours later)
Yeah, the gods are assholes. Surprising noone really.
I'm actually surprised they are cool with "Ok, in a week everyone will be level 100" thing.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (6 hours later)
I'm sure it made them twitch, but people ARE stopping. They're only using it once and, in all honesty, level 60 isn't THAT much on the divine scale.
u/JackStargazer [+3] Primordial Apologist (8 hours later)
So I guess your Gods aren't the Deities and Demigods /Faiths and Pantheons style ones, because most of them are around level 60. They get a lot of bonuses, and 20 outsider HD, but that's what they have in class levels.
Of course salient divine abilities like "Wish at will" kind of break that over backwards.
u/eaglejarl [+5] (10 hours later)
I haven't been too fussed over the details; I pretty much assume that gods are effectively unbeatable by mortals except in VERY unusual circumstances, given that whole "alter reality and freeze time on a whim" thing.
But, yes, you're right on all counts.
u/JackStargazer [+2] Primordial Apologist (10 hours later)
Yeah, just by itself Alter Reality (cast any spell once per round, no XP or gold components, Save DC = lots + more) does everything we've seen the gods do so far. Time Stop once every 3 rounds lets you time stop forever, Wish at will is... well, wish at will. And the autoscry when your name is mentioned thing is part of divine portfolio powers.
Your gods actually fit so far, assuming every one of them has Alter Reality (Which is like saying 'assuming every olympic sprinter has legs').
u/drageuth2 [+5] (7 hours later)
Sixty levels in one go. Wish-xp batteries. Munchkin-builds of incredibly high level...
That little 'PAO-engine splat-trap' I designed way back when is all grown up.
wipes away a tear So proud!
u/eaglejarl [+3] (8 hours later)
Ha! You're right, I had honestly forgotten that. I'll add an attribution.
(My version is simpler though -- no moving parts!)
u/drageuth2 [+2] (8 hours later)
hah yeah, I'm not worried about it. It's improved so much that it's more your idea than mine now anyway.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (9 hours later)
Attribution is up. :)
u/drageuth2 [+7] (9 hours later)
Waidaminute, I just realized...
The thing I designed was the PAO-Engine Splat Trap... The PEST. Yours is the FLEA.
That's AWESOME!
u/eaglejarl [+3] (9 hours later)
Hah! That's excellent. Totally serendipitous, but excellent.
u/drageuth2 [+1] (9 hours later)
Thank you :)
u/Zephyr1011 [+6] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (10 hours later)
Icefi changing his alignment seems incredibly useful if it's anything like Colborn. Although, would he not be constrained still by his programming? And does he have the power to subvert all of Afi's local troops with helms? Including the other ice assassins.
Also, Arros is a dick. Who appears to also have lied to them by promising safety during the meeting, and then essentially killing Reynard during it. Odd from the god of lawyers who is presumably lawful.
This fragment definitely seems a lot more significant than just a universe breaking consultant. A spy? Does it have god like powers, or just knowledge?
u/eaglejarl [+3] (2 days later)
Also, Arros is a dick. Who appears to also have lied to them by promising safety during the meeting, and then essentially killing Reynard during it. Odd from the god of lawyers who is presumably lawful.
Wait for it; the next chapter addresses the issue.
u/alexanderwales [+3] Time flies like an arrow (2 days later)
I guess I figured that Reynard did not actually come back correctly following the resurrection - it seemed like the other shoe needed to drop on that. But I guess I'll find out next week.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (2 days later)
Isaac came back with a soul rider, Reynard came back with a plague enchantment. Both were dealt with offscreen because it just wasn't that interesting. Neither one had their personality damaged.
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 days later)
What is a soul rider?And given that a plague can presumably be easily cured by clerics, why would Neklos have sent it when he can send more damaging things? As a god, he presumably does not lack the resources to do thatEDIT: Forget that first question, I found a quote about it
"We've had different ones. Sometimes it will be a demon that rides along with the resurrection, using it like a reverse Gate. Sometimes there will be a taint on the person's soul that works like a communicable form of mummy rot. Sometimes the dark gods have modified the mind attached to the soul, so the one resurrected returns as an agent of evil. Sometimes...well, the list goes on. The dark gods are very creative, and Neklos in particular is both cruel and evil.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (3 days later)
An evil creature that catchs a ride back to Earth on the soul of a creature being resurrected, sort of like a reverse Gate. It was described a few chapters ago.
Disease: it's a supercharged and highly contagious version of mummy rot. If it gets into the population when people are crammed as tight as in Grofhamr, it causes massive numbers of death before clerics can get in top of it.
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 days later)
Would it make sense to create cleric Ice Assassins and use those for resurrecting? After all, Ice Assassins dying is no great loss.
Would Ice Assassins be able to use the Graham's Number XP Battery to create more of themselves? And if so, would they obey the orders of the original person, or of the Assassin?
u/eaglejarl [+2] (3 days later)
Ice assassins as clerics: Who the cleric is doesn't impact on whether or not you get a soul rider.
Yes. The Ice Assassin.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 days later)
Drifa was complaining about 2 of the clerics being killed, so it wasn't really a gain from resurrecting Reynard and Isaac. If Ice Assassins were used instead of clerics, they could be easily replaced, rather than if a person died. So would this be a viable strategy for mass resurrections?
And could the Ice Assassin order this new Assassin to obey all the orders, not harm and prevent harm coming to etc the original person, so it's essentially the same as if the original person had made a new assassin? Who could then do the same and so on, creating an exponentially growing supply of Ice Assassins. Have I mentioned how completely and utterly broken this spell is?
Incidentally, what happens to the Ice Assassin if it's creator/target dies? The spell description doesn't specify
u/eaglejarl [+1] (3 days later)
Drifa was complaining about 2 of the clerics being killed, so it wasn't really a gain from resurrecting Reynard and Isaac. If Ice Assassins were used instead of clerics, they could be easily replaced, rather than if a person died.
Ah, right, I missed your point. Yes, that's true.
So would this be a viable strategy for mass resurrections?
It would help, but not solve the problem. It's not just the people at the resurrection that are at risk; if the people doing the resurrecting miss whatever Neklos sent back, the entire population gets screwed. And Neklos is smart enough not to send something back every time. As Drifa said, they miss something about one time in four, which is why they don't do many resurrections any more.
And could the Ice Assassin order this new Assassin to obey all the orders, not harm and prevent harm coming to etc the original person,
Yes.
so it's essentially the same as if the original person had made a new assassin?
Yep.
Who could then do the same and so on, creating an exponentially growing supply of Ice Assassins. Have I mentioned how completely and utterly broken this spell is?
Yeppers.
Incidentally, what happens to the Ice Assassin if it's creator/target dies? The spell description doesn't specify
There's no RAW on it, so I ruled that the IA melts.
EDIT: Fixed a lot of places where my friggin' phone browser 'corrected' things into incomprehensibility. Stupid phone browser. Note to self: proofread more carefully.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 days later)
If the original dying means that all of the Assassins die, does that mean that no Landguard will be doing important and dangerous stuff anymore? After all, anything which risks their death also risks the death of a lot of powerful others.
And now that time is less of a concern, could the Resurrectees be quarantined until they are sure that they're safe? Or could some things slip through even so?
And would things like mummy rot or a plague be catchable by an Ice Assassin?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (4 days later)
If the original dying means that all of the Assassins die, does that mean that no Landguard will be doing important and dangerous stuff anymore? After all, anything which risks their death also risks the death of a lot of powerful others.
That's...a very good point. One that I hadn't considered. Since it hasn't actually come up yet, I may actually change my ruling on what happens to an IA after its original's death.
And now that time is less of a concern, could the Resurrectees be quarantined until they are sure that they're safe? Or could some things slip through even so?
Well, think of it in a real world scenario: you're the security guards at a major airport. There's a steady stream of passengers going through. You know that many but not all of them are terrorists. Failing to identify a terrorist will result in hundreds or thousands of deaths.
Some of these terrorists are carrying bombs, bioweapons, etc on their persons, making them relatively easy to identify with a search. Some ARE bioweapons (they gargled with Ebola before getting on the plane). Some are sleeper agents. Some are mules for information or weaponry. Just to make life extra special, some of the people going through are totally innocent.
What do you do?
And would things like mummy rot or a plague be catchable by an Ice Assassin?
Mummy rot, yes. It's a curse, not an actual disease. A plague...probably not, but I'd need to go back and re-read the IA spell description more closely. If not, that would be one way to identify IAs.
u/Laborbuch [+1] (3 days later)
I thought Ice Assassin had only half the levels of the original caster? Something like that tickles in the back of my head… (I have never read nor played D&D) Reading the text of the spell, there's a lot of stuff in that spell.
- Passive: dragnet in 1 mile radius around caster due to Scrying on IA.
- Passive: magic cast on original caster can affect IA's, meaning 1 spell buffs n+1 Landguards. (n=#IA)
- Passive: killing the IA results in 20 feet ice shrapnel at (x/2)d6 damage (x=caster level; Landguard IA thus 10-11d6 damage)
- Failure Mode: Oughtn't they be dispelled by the antimagic swordclanging? I suppose the IA would be reduced to protecting Grǫfhamr.
- Intelligence: Making IA of intelligence targets and mindscraping them. According to the spell description one needs some material component of the original for casting IA, though.
I assume the Landguard took the 21st level in Paladin so their class remains the same? I remember you mentioning there being no Epic tiers or something like that; my assumption is no extra skills and stuff. So aside from the class issue, the only advantage of having 20+y levels in a class is those tied to class level, like the extra damage to Smite Evil, right?
While I see the advantage multi-classing (I'm thinking of more options and synergy), wasn't one of the advantages the Paladins had their effectiveness without magic? I don't know to what degree this would be increased with more levels though.
So mostly I'm wondering, to what degree does multi-classing out-compete more levels in magic-independent classes?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (3 days later)
I thought Ice Assassin had only half the levels of the original caster?
Nope, that's Simulacrum, the less broken 7th level version.
Passive: dragnet in 1 mile radius around caster due to Scrying on IA.
Yes, but the Scrying is not a passive, always on thing. It's a deliberate choice by the creator.
Passive: killing the IA results in 20 feet ice shrapnel at (x/2)d6 damage (x=caster level; Landguard IA thus 10-11d6 damage)
Yep. Makes them pretty good as suicide troops.
Failure Mode: Oughtn't they be dispelled by the antimagic swordclanging?
Nope. The IA spell has a duration of "Instantaneous". That means that the spell happens, creates a creature, and is then over. The IA creature will have its special abilities (spell casting, etc) turned off by antimagic, but it itself will not be any more destroyed than a zombie would be.
Intelligence: Making IA of intelligence targets and mindscraping them. According to the spell description one needs some material component of the original for casting IA, though.
Yep.
I assume the Landguard took the 21st level in Paladin so their class remains the same?
According to RAW, if a paladin takes a level in another class they lose the ability to progress as a paladin. According to my house rules (chapter 10) they can multiclass freely as long as their paladin level is higher than any other, and they don't take rogue levels.
I remember you mentioning there being no Epic tiers or something like that; my assumption is no extra skills and stuff. So aside from the class issue, the only advantage of having 20+y levels in a class is those tied to class level, like the extra damage to Smite Evil, right?
Pretty much, yes. Might be a few others -- I'm away from books at the moment.
While I see the advantage multi-classing (I'm thinking of more options and synergy), wasn't one of the advantages the Paladins had their effectiveness without magic? I don't know to what degree this would be increased with more levels though. So mostly I'm wondering, to what degree does multi-classing out-compete more levels in magic-independent classes?
At high levels, casters are strictly better than any other class; wizards can out sneak a thief, out fight a fighter, and blow everything the hell up at will.
The fact that the Landguard seem effective is because I've put a lot of work into it, and because of the brains and force of personality of their members. Strictly speaking, a smart wizard could kill them all even without munchkining.
On the other hand, casters top out at 20th level. Without Epic, there is no reason to keep progressing as a caster past that point...hence why the Landguard went multiclass.
u/Prezombie [+6] (an hour later)
Satisfying chapter.
The left hand rule makes several assumptions about the maze which you can't fairly make. e.g. if the destination is in the center, surrounded by an unbroken moat of corridor, you'll never reach the end. You need Trémaux's algorithm.
u/eaglejarl [+5] (2 hours later)
Huh, very cool. Thanks for the pointer.
u/OffColorCommentary [+2] (2 days later)
The left hand rule also doesn't work in mazes that contain bridges. Since a lich's maze is almost certain to have utterly non-Euclidean elements (corridors that wrap back in on themselves and such) it seems safe to guess the rule will fail.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (2 days later)
Feh. Ah well.
Chalk this up to "Jake is smart but thinks he knows things he doesn't." Mostly because apparently I do.
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 days later)
Try wishing for greater Wisdom?
u/eaglejarl [+2] (3 days later)
Heh. First off, that would be a Knowledge(computer science or math) check, which is Int based. Second, show me where to get a Wish and l'll break it so hard Wis boosts will seem tame.
u/Zephyr1011 [+3] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 days later)
Let me try Anselm's Ontological Argument for my divinity to get you a wish:
God is defined as the greatest possible being
I can conceive of God
If God does not exist, I can conceive of a greater being, one who exists
This would contradict the assumption of God's maximal greatness
Therefore God exists
If God is the greatest possible being, they must also be the greatest possible being I can conceive of
If God were not me, I would perceive that as a flaw
God can have no flaws
Therefore I am God
God is omnipotent
I am God, therefore I am omnipotentI use my powers to cause a Ring of 3 Wishes to appear before you upon you reading this statement
Please report whether you have received empirical proof of my divinity
u/eaglejarl [+4] (3 days later)
Could you do me a favor and put Graham's number XP into that thing? Without it,'I can't create magic items.
It hasn't appeared yet, but I'm sure it's just stuck in the mail. I'll let you know when it gets here. Thanks for this, by the way!
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 days later)
Sure, the XP should arrive in 20d20 rounds. Apologies for the shipping time, but first class was far too expensive, even for an omnipotent being like myself.
Just make one of your wishes for an arbitrarily large supply of writing of superior quality to 2YE (assuming such a thing is possible for the ring) to appear on your fanfiction.net account and I will consider the gift repaid in full. After wishing for a Ring of 3^^^3 wishes of course. Even a God requires amusement. And using my omnipotence for that would most definitely be cheating
u/eaglejarl [+1] (3 days later)
Most appreciated for both the ring and the XP!
I'll be happy to wish up some more writing for you, but I'll most likely be putting it on ArchiveOfOurOwn.org -- I am fed up with FFNs failings and intend to migrate new writing to a better site. I'm checking out AO3 because I've been told it can do the things I really care about, such as threaded reviews replies.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 days later)
Ah, so others recognise my omnipotence. I thank you for this endorsement. Use of AO3 would be acceptable. Although, should the ring's nigh-omnipotent power be capable of generating writing of superior quality to your own, it would surely be capable of posting them to both sites. And responding to reviews on an arbitrarily large amount of writing does sound like a definite logistical challenge. Wish for a Cube of Ice Assassin? And you may as well give Jake one while you're at it.
Jake will presumably be doing a lot more munchkining now that he has access to that shambling travesty of a deity inhabiting Reynard's animated corpse (as far as I can gather from limited evidence. Shambling is as of yet but a conjecture), but every little helps.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (3 days later)
Ah, so others recognise my omnipotence. I thank you for this endorsement.
You're welcome. :) Thanks for the Ring.
Use of AO3 would be acceptable.
I appreciate your permission. :P
Although, should the ring's nigh-omnipotent power be capable of generating writing of superior quality to your own, it would surely be capable of posting them to both sites.
It would be great if the Ring could produce writing better than mine! Well, as long as it was something that I enjoyed reading. Then I could just sit back and take credit for the work without doing the work. :)
And responding to reviews on an arbitrarily large amount of writing does sound like a definite logistical challenge. Wish for a Cube of Ice Assassin? And you may as well give Jake one while you're at it
Not a bad plan!
Jake will presumably be doing a lot more munchkining now that he has access to that shambling travesty of a deity inhabiting Reynard's animated corpse (as far as I can gather from limited evidence. Shambling is as of yet but a conjecture), but every little helps.
Yeah, the fragment makes my life easier by making it so that I don't have to write more "and then a god almost squished Jake's face but didn't because plot" scenes. And it makes Jake's life easier because he doesn't have to have a god squish his face.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (4 days later)
Do you plan on writing every scene where Jake asks the fragment something? Or will it just be assumed that all things which would break the story were given a no by the fragment off screen?
u/eaglejarl [+2] (4 days later)
It will be a bit of a mix. The first time or two, I'll show it, then I'll largely elide it. When the answer is no, I'll generally show it.
Reasons:
- When adding a new and important yet repetitive plot element, it's important to make clear that it's happening. Therefore, show it in the beginning.
- When the element continues to happen normally (i.e. when the answer is "yes it's ok") it's repetitive and uninteresting; elide it.
- Remember that stating your plans in advance is considered harmful and elide that.
- When something changes about your plot element (in this case, when the fragment says "no") that's interesting and should not be elided. It gives the audience information by which they can reason about the story, so don't cheat and deprive them of it.
u/alexanderwales [+3] Time flies like an arrow (6 hours later)
My D&D group is called the Left Hand Band specifically because of a long night spent wandering through a maze and only taking left hand turns.
u/autowikibot [+2] (an hour later)
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#### Section 4. Trémaux's algorithm of article Maze solving algorithm:
Trémaux's algorithm, invented by Charles Pierre Trémaux, is an efficient method to find the way out of a maze that requires drawing lines on the floor to mark a path, and is guaranteed to work for all mazes that have well-defined passages. A path is either unvisited, marked once or marked twice. Every time a direction is chosen it is marked by drawing a line on the floor (from junction to junction). In the beginning a random direction is chosen (if there is more than one). On arriving at a junction that has not been visited before (no other marks), pick a random direction (and mark the path). When arriving at a marked junction and if your current path is marked only once then turn around and walk back (and mark the path a second time). If this is not the case, pick the direction with the fewest marks (and mark it, as always).. When you finally reach the solution, paths marked exactly once will indicate a direct way back to the start. If there is no exit, this method will take you back to the start where all paths are marked twice. In this case each path is walked down exactly twice, once in each direction. The resulting walk is called a bidirectional double-tracing.
^Interesting: ^Maze ^| ^Right-hand ^rule ^| ^Harvey ^Wallbanger ^| ^Maze ^generation ^algorithm
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u/tilkau [+3] (22 hours later)
Arros is from the word "Arrogant". Should've known.
(Yeah, this isn't actually stated in-story, but it makes too much sense now we've seen his overall behaviour.)
u/eaglejarl [+3] (2 days later)
Heh. No, but that is funny.
The worst part is that Arros is actually one of the nicer gods.
u/tilkau [+3] (2 days later)
I was reading him as exaggeratedly indulgent, like 'Sure, that's okay.. after all, I can wipe you out with a finger flick if I feel like it'. That's why I picked his particular characteristic as arrogance -- obviously all gods have that level of power, but eg Neklos doesn't seem the pretentiously arrogant type, more the "DOOM FOR EVERYBODY! YOU GET A DOOM, AND YOU GET A DOOM, AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU! ^Have ^fun ^with ^that, ^I ^know ^I ^will. ". I get the impression their personalities generally match their portfolio.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (2 days later)
DOOM FOR EVERYBODY! YOU GET A DOOM, AND YOU GET A DOOM, AND YOU AND YOU AND YOU!
laugh Thank you -- I was a bit down and this made me laugh. I feel much better now.
And yes, portfolio ~ personality is about right.
u/None [+2] (8 hours later)
[deleted]
u/eaglejarl [+3] (8 hours later)
No Magic-Marts. Being able to buy magic items makes things too simple.
As to promoting the high level people -- I had just assumed they used more Linnorms but your way is more efficient. :)
(Although you do have to wait 24 hours for the negative levels to become actual level loss, and that would have interfered with doing it overnight, but meh.)
u/None [+1] (9 hours later)
[deleted]
u/eaglejarl [+3] (9 hours later)
Shhh! You'll ruin the trick! :)
Although they do have a tame vampire (Colborn) on hand. I suppose they could have done the negative level trick offscreen the day before.
u/None [+2] (11 hours later)
[deleted]
u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 days later)
Factotum is a great class and falls squarely in the "holy crap that's powerful" category.
That said, it has thief abilities and I'm not comfortable giving the Landguard thief abilities. It doesn't fit with the whole "paladin" motif, even though I'm running them as rather more pragmatic than the standard.
More importantly, though, it's more complicated than I want to deal with in the text. I thought long and hard about using archivists and decided it was ok because they are basically just like wizards who use divine spells.
u/MadScientist14159 [+1] WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe. (2 hours later)
Eesh...
Fucking Gods...
u/eaglejarl [+1] (2 hours later)
Heh.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (a day later)
The XP battery got an OK without Jake specifying what amount of XP. A Graham's number XP battery coming up? Although I do favor 3^^^3 as unimaginably big numbers go, for requiring fewer characters.
Jake's plan seems like it will be something Munchkiny, as if it was a normal magic item, Thomas or someone else present presumably would have said something. A Wished item to cast Haste with sufficient caster level to last essentially forever? But Haste can apparently only double your speed, which I doubt would be sufficient to brute force a maze of arbitrary size. Without further hints, i don't know enough about DnD to hazard a better guess
And why does Jake assume the maze is one level? Or that Hammond will be in it at all, and it isn't just a red herring? With pocket dimensions, there is a far greater potential for cool mazes than Jake is used to, especially if these can lead to different destinations at different times. I mean, look at Grofhamr, reachable through a single hole
u/russxbox [+2] (a day later)
I'm calling it now- grapple ball of speed!
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (2 days later)
The author all but explicitly said yes. So congratulations
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (a day later)
Yeah, that was mentioned in the comments on a previous chapter, and I believe the author liked it. I'd forgotten. Thanks for reminding me. That seems pretty plausible
u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 days later)
The XP battery got an OK without Jake specifying what amount of XP. A Graham's number XP battery coming up? Although I do favor 3^^^ 3 as unimaginably big numbers go, for requiring fewer characters
Well, I have mentioned Graham's number before....
3 ^ ^ ^ 3 is large-ish, but not really catastrophically so. There's just something that makes my heart go pitter-pat about a number so large that it could not even theoretically be written down in the real universe.
A Wished item to cast Haste with sufficient caster level to last essentially forever?
The Landguard already live under permanent Haste spells, so another Haste wouldn't stack. Good thought, though.
And why does Jake assume the maze is one level?
It was more in the nature of a warning: here is a condition under which this method will not work.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (2 days later)
As the above comment suggested, will it be the grapple ball of speed?
And as Jake explicitly states a scenario when this strategy would not work, why does he propose it as a way to solve the maze? As a 28th level wizard, Hammond ought to be intelligent enough to design a difficult maze. Will anything Hammond does in his defence even be able to challenge the Landguard now, at over 3x his level? Even 1 ought to be able to trounce him.
Also, now that Jake and co have access to Mindscrape, can they use to achieve utterly broken results? Such as giving all these new mages the memories and expertise of all their most seasoned warriors and generals. Mindscraping out any too sensitive information first, of course. Or could they get Icefi to let them use it on him? After all, turnabout is fair play and 15000 years of memories could be pretty useful.
Does Deadboy sockpuppet the other liches or just Afi? If the former, I can see him getting quite annoyed by them turning Hammond. And if Afi deconverted, would Neklos lose all hold on him?
What would happen if a HoOA was used on Jake, who doesn't really fit in the alignment system?
And as Lawful Good characters, can the Landguard make Ice Assassins? Creating a creature doomed to spend its life in thrall to you and unable to fulfill its deepest desires seems a definite act of evil. It could be justified on consequentialist grounds, but that's not very lawful
u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 days later)
As the above comment suggested, will it be the grapple ball of speed?
That would be telling. :)
In entirely unrelated news, could the person who first pointed out the GBoS please raise your hand? I don't remember who you were and I need to.
And as Jake explicitly states a scenario when this strategy would not work, why does he propose it as a way to solve the maze?
It will automatically solve any one-level maze. If the maze is multiple levels or extradimensional, you can probably brute force it given enough speed, but this trick won't work.
As a 28th level wizard, Hammond ought to be intelligent enough to design a difficult maze. Will anything Hammond does in his defence even be able to challenge the Landguard now, at over 3x his level? Even 1 ought to be able to trounce him.
Level isn't all that matters, brains and experience count. The Landguard are brand new to their new classes and won't know all the tricks. Hammond has been doing this for a long time; he's put a lot of thought into self defense, and the fight is happening on his chosen ground. It might be a challenge or it might be a curb stomp, but either way it requires more than one Landguard.
Also, now that Jake and co have access to Mindscrape, can they use to achieve utterly broken results? Such as giving all these new mages the memories and expertise of all their most seasoned warriors and generals. Mindscraping out any too sensitive information first, of course. Or could they get Icefi to let them use it on him? After all, turnabout is fair play and 15000 years of memories could be pretty useful
Yes, those things could be done, but you would likely mess up the person receiving the data -- if you're 30 and you get 11000 years of experience it might actually overwrite you.
Does Deadboy sockpuppet the other liches or just Afi?
They have no evidence that it's more than Afi.
What would happen if a HoOA was used on Jake, who doesn't really fit in the alignment system?
It would have no effect.
And as Lawful Good characters, can the Landguard make Ice Assassins? Creating a creature doomed to spend its life in thrall to you and unable to fulfill its deepest desires seems a definite act of evil. It could be justified on consequentialist grounds, but that's not very lawful
It helps preserve the Land from extinction and doesn't involve actual torture or murder of the innocent. The Landguard are pretty pragmatic.
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (2 days later)
If you got an Ice Assassin to cast Mindscrape on Icefi, even if they are overwritten, they must still obey you, right? So you would essentially have an Afi who must follow your orders? This sounds extremely useful.
What would happen if an Ice Assassin sacrificed the knowledge that it must obey its creators orders to Herrun? Or knowledge of a specific order? Would it be freed of it? And could Mindscrape create a similar effect?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (4 days later)
If you got an Ice Assassin to cast Mindscrape on Icefi, even if they are overwritten, they must still obey you, right? So you would essentially have an Afi who must follow your orders? This sounds extremely useful.
You mean make an IA of yourself, then have it Mindscrape Icefi? Yes, that would work. Note that Icefi is a savepoint on Afi; Icefi is what Afi was when Icefi was created. His information is out of date.
What would happen if an Ice Assassin sacrificed the knowledge that it must obey its creators orders to Herrun? Or knowledge of a specific order? Would it be freed of it? And could Mindscrape create a similar effect?
Nope and nope. The requirement to obey these orders isn't a mental conditioning, its a fully baked-in part of who the IAs are.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (4 days later)
How long ago was Icefi cut loose? And knowledge of Icefi's plans and motivations would still be pretty useful. Incidentally, shouldn't there be a lot of other groups similar to Icefi that Afi cut loose? We know that Afi was inclined to cut some ice assassins lose because he did, but then wiped that knowledge and reverted to a person who didn't know he'd done that, that is, the kind of Afi inclined to create another Icefi. So he presumably would have cut loose some more and wiped the memories, restarting the cycle. And so on. At the very least, he may have figured out that he did it, as he knows Mindscrape exists and is obviously smart enough to think of the plan,as he already did. How many assassins does Afi have anyway? Was a few thousand a noticeable drop?
Also, will we ever meet any of the other refugee colonies like Grofhamr, which I believe I recall being mentioned?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (4 days later)
How long ago was Icefi cut loose?
The BDH (Big Damn Heroes) don't know.
Incidentally, shouldn't there be a lot of other groups similar to Icefi that Afi cut loose? [reasoning]
There might be. There's no evidence available one way or the other at the moment.
How many assassins does Afi have anyway? Was a few thousand a noticeable drop?
All that's been revealed so far is that Afi has AT LEAST four 9th level spell slots per day, and he's had 11,000 years to use them. The BDH might have destroyed or captured all of his IAs already, or he could have another ~16,000,000 of them. Or he might have far more, if he has spell slots from other classes or found some other way to cast the spell more often.
Really, they just don't have a clue.
Also, will we ever meet any of the other refugee colonies like Grofhamr, which I believe I recall being mentioned?
I would like to, but it's not looking likely to happen in the near future. The plot doesn't call for it at the moment; I could force it, but it would end up looking clumsy.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (6 days later)
Or he might have far more, if he has spell slots from other classes or found some other way to cast the spell more often.
So multiclassing means you get the spell slots for all of the classes? If you multiclassed wizard and sorceror, would you get 10 9th level spell slots a day? And as sorceror appears to have way more spell slots, balanced by learning very few very slowly, and it shares the wizard spells list, could you cast the spells you learn as a wizard in your sorceror slots? If so, those classes synergise extremely well.
And could you use mindscrape to learn the spells someone has memorised?
u/eaglejarl [+2] (6 days later)
So multiclassing means you get the spell slots for all of the classes?
Yep.
If you multiclassed wizard and sorceror, would you get 10 9th level spell slots a day?
Indeed. Although 6 of them could only be used for casting spells that your sorceror side knew.
And as sorceror appears to have way more spell slots, balanced by learning very few very slowly, and it shares the wizard spells list, could you cast the spells you learn as a wizard in your sorceror slots?
Nope. Your spell casting is effectively compartmentalized between the classes. You cast just like a 20th level wizard. You also cast just like a 20th level sorceror. Never the twain shall meet.
And could you use mindscrape to learn the spells someone has memorised?
Nope. Mindscrape is totally broken on fluff, but quite weak on crunch. As to fluff: you learn everything the target knows, so all troop dispositions, passwords etc. As to crunch: you know all the words, spelling, and grammar that they know, and you have years of memories on how to speak French...yet you have no skill ranks in Language(French) so you can't speak French.
Learning spells is the same thing. There's rules for how to do it and how long it takes, and those rules trump the idea that just have detailed memories of actually casting the spell should be enough.
There's actually some sense to this one: a prepared spell isn't just words committed to memory, it's a ritual which you started in the morning and left only a few word left unsaid. Since the person using Mindscrape didn't do the ritual, they can't cast the spell that it presages.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (2 days later)
You've just left the rest of my comment copied but not quoted or responded to. Did you submit your comment too early?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (2 days later)
Yep. Stupid phone browser. Fixed.
u/russxbox [+1] (2 days later)
Looks like the GBOS was brought up in this thread. That's the most recent one I could find, and your reaction to it made me stop searching cause it seems like the first time you had seen it.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (2 days later)
Yep, that was it. Thanks!
u/eaglejarl [+1] (15 seconds later)
New chapter's up. Enjoy.