53 KiB
[MK] The Two Year Emperor, Chapter 60: Industriously Revolutionary
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Author: u/eaglejarl *
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URL: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9669819/60/The-Two-Year-Emperor
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Score: 21
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Created: 2014-09-06T08:11:10
Post:
Comments:
u/GeneralSCPatton [+12] (11 hours later)
Just for funsies, because of that bit about atoms. Each size category is a factor of 2 along each dimension and confers a + or - 4 on Hide checks. Iron atoms have a diameter of 252 picometers. Dividing the average human height by the diameter and taking the log base 2 reveals that iron atoms are about 33 size categories smaller than humans. If someone manages to temporarily get about +132 to Spot checks, they'll be able to see atoms. I don't know if you can come up with a plausible excuse for this to happen, but it would be hilarious. I'm sure one of those threads on optimizing for epic skill checks would help. Fortunately, at such high levels they can get almost halfway there just on skill ranks alone. Also, freaking out about being made of cells. "I can see my own eyeballs! And they're made of little things! Oh Gods, they're moving!"
u/alexanderwales [+6] Time flies like an arrow (13 hours later)
Given that most people seem to have at least 60 levels now, anyone who has specialized in Spot should have +60 to it at a bare minimum (ranks only, no special feats, items, or weird stuff). While that's not enough to see atoms, the smallest bacteria is about 200 nanometers across, which is 800 times larger than an iron atom - or about 10 size categories. So to see a single cell, you only need to have a spot check of +92 - which is fairly easily achievable for any of the newly hyperleveled characters.
Incidentally, such high Spot checks allow you to see invisible creatures without really trying:
A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Spot check. The observer gains a hunch that “something’s there” but can’t see it or target it accurately with an attack. A creature who is holding still is very hard to notice (DC 30). An inanimate object, an unliving creature holding still, or a completely immobile creature is even harder to spot (DC 40). It’s practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature’s location with a Spot check, and even if a character succeeds on such a check, the invisible creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance).
But if we were really following the D&D Spot rules, you wouldn't be able to see much beyond a few hundred yards (or something like that), which makes almost no sense.
Edit: +15 to Wisdom from 60 levels and +5 to Wisdom from the POPE gives you +70 without much optimization. That's enough to see things on the micrometer scale when you take 10. Of course, it's sort of questionable whether things in Stupidworld are even made up of cells or atoms in the first place, but I guess given the matter-antimatter reaction they must be. If you take 20 you can see cells, and that's without a microscope.
u/Nepene [+1] (a day later)
The spot rules only apply to things which are hiding or are difficult to see. The rules don't actually specify at what distance you can see things which aren't hiding. It's up to DM fiat.
u/alexanderwales [+1] Time flies like an arrow (a day later)
The rules don't actually specify at what distance you can see things which aren't hiding.
I am pretty sure they do. The rules in the Wilderness section of the SRD give the guidelines. Also, from the entry on Spot:
Spot checks may be called for to determine the distance at which an encounter begins. A penalty applies on such checks, depending on the distance between the two individuals or groups, and an additional penalty may apply if the character making the Spot check is distracted (not concentrating on being observant).
This is backed up by the fact that the SRD gives a Spot DC for seeing a forest fire, which by definition can't be hiding. /u/eaglejarl has said that this is too stupid to really be worth including. The reason for these rules is pretty obvious - short encounter distances are more dynamic and all for melee/ranged to both get more out of the encounter. I've never met a DM who actually uses the guidelines though; it's always been straight fiat.
u/Nepene [+1] (a day later)
Nothing in the wilderness section overrides the information on spot checks, they merely give the maximum distances you can make spot checks. They don't give the maximum distance you can see people with a clear line of sight. Also your cite from the spot check rules doesn't say that this applies to people who aren't hiding or concealed- the start of the spot check doesn't go away because they don't repeat it.
This is backed up by the fact that the SRD gives a Spot DC for seeing a forest fire, which by definition can't be hiding.
A forest fire can be concealed by trees and thereby be difficult to see. Poor visibility is covered under spot checks.
The Spot skill is used primarily to detect characters or creatures who are hiding. Typically, your Spot check is opposed by the Hide check of the creature trying not to be seen. Sometimes a creature isn’t intentionally hiding but is still difficult to see, so a successful Spot check is necessary to notice it.
I've never met a DM who actually uses the guidelines though; it's always been straight fiat.
None of the guidelines actually oblige even a rules stickler DM to use spot checks for situations other than the ones they explicitly cover.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (a day later)
I suppose I should really put an entry in my Chapter 10 "house rules" section saying that I'm assuming humans actually have vision beyond ~100 yards.
u/themenniss [+1] Possibly self-aware (12 hours later)
OH MY GOD SO MUCH THIS.
u/fortycakes [+9] (an hour later)
How come Isaac didn't have to pay Graham's number of experience to create the Earring? Wish doesn't remove the experience point cost of creating items, so unless the XP cost for the Earring is somehow (vastly) less than the XP stored within it, it should have used more XP to cast that Wish than Isaac could have possibly had.
u/eaglejarl [+4] (3 hours later)
You might want to re-read that section. Reload the page and search for "explode".
You might also note a namedrop in that vicinity. :)
u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 hours later)
Interesting question. What's your guess?
u/Zephyr1011 [+3] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (2 hours later)
Assuming that it isn't some random rule like "When creating an item with XP, you need not pay the XP ", it could have been a god intervening? Loki already did that with the cannons, so there is a precedent. And I'm sure this trick would amuse some of them. Besides, if it failed because Isaac lacked XP, they could have just used another candle of invocation to make it
u/eaglejarl [+5] (3 hours later)
Repeating what I posted to fortycakes so that you see it too:
You might want to re-read that section. Reload the page and search for "explode".
You might also note a namedrop in that vicinity. :)
u/Zephyr1011 [+3] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 hours later)
Why thank you. I'm flattered.
Also, I will now in future assume that all innocuous seeming questions from you to readers are plot hole damage control
Why do they give my alter-ego 2 wishes though? Surely one wish would be sufficient for not-me to fulfill the deal in good faith. And then they'd have gotten a free wish. Likewise for when Jake did it a while ago
u/eaglejarl [+5] (3 hours later)
Also, I will now in future assume that all innocuous seeming questions from you to readers are plot hole damage control
Heh. Actually, I think this is the first time that's happened. Usually when I ask innocuous seeming questions it's because I've got something up my sleeve and I don't want to spoil it but I can't resist hinting a little bit.
[giving 2 wishes vs 1]
In both cases, it's because the extra Wish didn't matter and there's a question of perception. If the person you're doing the deal with is getting more out of it than you are, there's a small sense of irritation. If you're getting more out of it, you feel all magnanimous and DEFINITELY don't want to screw around.
And the second Wish really didn't matter -- in the first case, one Ring was enough to get infinite Wishes. In the second, Wishes were easily available and XP was the limiting factor, which the Earring solved.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (4 hours later)
As Gate apparently costs 1000 XP points, why did Isaac complain about spending 6000? Surely not-me would have paid for the Wish.
Also, that is a surprisingly accurate description of my nether regions for someone who has (hopefully) never see them.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (5 hours later)
Damnit. Because originally I had him Wish for the Candle and then use that to do the Gate before I smacked myself and said "Hey! He could just cast Gate directly and you could actually have some punctuation in this sentence!"
Fixing. sigh
u/Zephyr1011 [+3] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (5 hours later)
Given that this system seems to work just fine for getting a Wish without the universe screwing you over, why does anyone use a regular Wish (other than for automating stuff)? It costs 5 times the XP, more if you want an item
u/eaglejarl [+6] (6 hours later)
Error 404: Explanation not found.
Please check your question for common mistakes such as expecting internally consistent logic from a role playing game
;)
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (6 hours later)
I can only conclude that a high Intelligence score does not make a wizard intelligent
u/aeschenkarnos [+1] (15 hours later)
Arguably, optimizing the use of the intellectual resources available to us is a Wisdom skill. Intelligence just means we have a lot of intellectual resources.
However, these characters (now) have 20+ in Int and Wis, so whatever's going on in Jake's head that isn't in theirs, it's probably not representable by attributes.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (19 hours later)
Part of it is that all of the characters are limited by my INT, WIS, and available time and mental energy to think. I try to make them visibly smart / wise instead of just informed smart / wise, but obviously there are limits.
u/Gurkenglas [+1] (a day later)
Because Wish is a standard action that is often used in dire emergencies and the optimized method involves negotiations that are not even guranteed to succeed.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (a day later)
Sure, Wish works best in dire circumstances. But outside of those it makes little sense. The negotiations have worked just fine so far, and benefit both parties, and I see no reason why a djinn would renege on the deal
u/Chronophilia [+2] sci-fi ≠ futurology (2 hours later)
The gods object to Wishing for items without paying the XP costs, because that limitation prevents infinite wish loops with the Ring of Three Wishes or similar.
Jake had to ask for specific permission from Arros to make the Earring. He doesn't need special permission to make the Bedroll Gnome Gnome Gnome Gnomes, just a general "I'm OK with spell engines".
u/eaglejarl [+3] (3 hours later)
Indeed.
The gods would have gone ballistic if Jake had created the Earring without permission, thereby meaning that he never had to pay XP for anything ever again.
Of course, fortycakes is also correct -- a vanilla Wish couldn't create the Earring. Hence why it is no longer a vanilla Wish that does.
retcon, retcon, lovely lovely retcon.
u/Zephyr1011 [+3] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (30 minutes later)
This was wonderful. Jake has gotten so much better now he's not a PTSD suffering alcoholic. I presume that they were automating the production of useful things like HoOA? And that the Landguard made ice Assassins off screen?
If they're forbidden from turning Neklos' servants against him, shouldn't the gods be annoyed by their treatment of Colborn and plans for Hammond?
Also, would any kind of limited time Grey Goo be useful? Eg. Something which converts an area of matter in front of itself into a copy of itself until arbitrary time. Or, say, a spell engine which cast Sunburst, or one which created such engines, dropped onto a field of undead?
u/eaglejarl [+6] (47 minutes later)
This was wonderful. Jake has gotten so much better now he's not a PTSD suffering alcoholic.
Heh. Thanks, glad you think so. To be honest, I was just as tired of writing him that way as everyone seems to have been of reading him that way. When Icefi showed up, his primary mission was to get the humans onside, but his secondary mission was to steal Jake's brain and get the information out. It was a perfect opportunity to fix the bad parts en passant.
I presume that they were automating the production of useful things like HoOA? And that the Landguard made ice Assassins off screen?
Yes and yes.
If they're forbidden from turning Neklos' servants against him, shouldn't the gods be annoyed by their treatment of Colborn and plans for Hammond?
It was more "you can't do that en masse". Converting individual worshippers of a god is an acceptable and time-honored tactic in divine warfare. Stealing entire swaths of them in one go is not cricket, however. Anything that violates the divine equivalent of the Geneva Conventions gets all the gods uniting to spank you with an axe.
Also, would any kind of limited time Grey Goo be useful? Eg. Something which converts an area of matter in front of itself into a copy of itself until arbitrary time. Or, say, a spell engine which cast Sunburst, or one which created such engines, dropped onto a field of undead?
As to the Sunburst -- it would be useful, yes, but it's approximately the same thing that Fragment already kiboshed. They might try asking about it separately, though.
Grey Goo...might be useful, although the only thing I can think of that you'd use it for would be utterly destroying an area of ground and everything on it, and there's already plenty of ways to do that. It's pretty much the same problem as the AM explosions -- chewing up lots of landscape tends to piss off the mountain / earth / river / etc gods.
u/tilkau [+2] (49 minutes later)
The distinguishing characteristic of all Jake's rejected plans in this chapter is that they are en masse, and generally stupidly OP exploits -- 'kill/turn all the undead' definitely fits in that category.
Using a Helm of Opposite Alignment opportunistically on significant individuals is positively mundane -- highly effective, but nothing jawdropping -- as war strategy goes. I would call the gods seriously OCD if they were bothered by that.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (54 minutes later)
Incidentally, if anyone can come up with a Wolfram-Alpha-able equation that graphs the production capacity of the 3-tier production lines, I'd love to see it. I wrote out the first few levels of it longhand to make sure it had the production I wanted. Later on I tried to actually write down the equations, but my brain kept breaking when I did.
You can safely assume that all GGGs fire before all GGs before all Gs.
u/Zephyr1011 [+4] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 hours later)
Ignoring the volume constraints, the problem is just a simple polynomial. If then cannot spread the things out fast enough, this just remains an upper bound.
Assuming that it starts at round 0 with 1 GGG and nothing else, that each round the total number of GGs is the sum of the previous number of GGs and GGGs and likewise for Gs and FBRs, you get:
0: (1, 0, 0, 0)
1: (1, 1, 1, 1)
2: (1, 2, 3, 4)
3: (1, 3, 6, 10)
4: (1, 4, 10, 20)
5: (1, 5, 15, 35)
...This generalises to (1, n, n(n+1)/2, n(n+1)(n+2)/6), or (1, nC1, (n+1)C2, (n+2)C3).
If you started with a G^r, rather than a G^3, it would be (G^r, ..., G, FBR)=(1, nC1, ..., (n+r-2)C(r-1), (n+r-1)Cr)
So, after 1 minute you would have 220, 5 minutes would give you 22100, half an hour would give you 4545100, and an hour would give you 36180200, enough for all of Grofhamr and Flobovia's population. If you're willing to wait a day, every person in Grofhamr and Flobovia can make 13500 Ice Assassins and give them all a Fortifying Bedroll, with a few left over for all the trees and animals in Flobovia.
EDIT: Gnomes are apparently able to cast Wish the same round that they are created. My solution has been amended accordingly
u/tilkau [+2] (an hour later)
I think triangular numbers may be relevant here. I don't know much about Wolfram Alpha, but here it is in Python, in the most simple, easy to understand way I could write it:
ggg = 1 gg = 0 g = 0 fbr = 0 maxturns = 100 graph = [] for turn in range(maxturns): for i3 in range(ggg): gg += 1 for i2 in range(gg): g += 1 for i1 in range(g): fbr += 1 graph.append(fbr)Obviously, this only runs for 100 turns (ending in 171700 FBRs on the final turn). If I were making a larger graph I would probably use something more efficient, like this:
ggg = 1 gg = 0 g = 0 fbr = 0 maxturns = 10000 graph = [] for turn in range(maxturns): gg += ggg g += gg fbr += g graph.append(fbr)After 10000 rounds, 166716670000 FBRs have been produced; in the 10000th round alone, 50005000 FBRs have been produced (naturally, the number of G's is the same as this.. The number of GG's is 10000; the reason for this should also be obvious.)
Very quick graph of FBR production, turns is X axis:
http://i.imgur.com/I9prTfQ.png
It looks like you could fit this to a polynomial and be able to put it into WA that way.
I ignored the googolplex limit because I calculated that I couldn't possibly run into it until I'd run my algorithm for a googolplex rounds.
Soooo... maybe those GGGs are a tad overspecced.
u/JT_Macguffin [+2] (an hour later)
Indeed, the number of Gs exactly follows the triangular number sequence, which can be calculated with the polynomial 1/2x^2 + x/2. Since the rate FBR increases per round is just the number of Gs, we now know the derivative.
Simply take the integral and you get 1/6x^3 + 1/4x^2, where x is the number of FBRs. (Of course, this assumes infinite space, which constrains the actual numbers of a bit. Stupid reality screwing up math.)
Anyway, here's the Wolfman Alpha graph, at x = 100. It matches your calculation.
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 hours later)
Your figure for the FBRs is a bit off. You are using calculus, which assumes that the production is continuous, when it is discrete. The actual formula is n(n-1)(n-2)/6 at round n, assuming that it starts with 1 GGG at round 0 and nothing else
u/JT_Macguffin [+2] (3 hours later)
Oh, shoot. You're correct. I was wondering why I was getting decimal results. I suppose it's just a good approximation if you're in a hurry.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (an hour later)
There is a greatly constrained volume in which things can be created. You assume that there is infinite range on the creation spell
u/tilkau [+1] (an hour later)
Good point. So you're saying you just end up with a fixed volume that will always be filled with FBRs? Take some away and more generate?
I don't know what the relevant limits are. Or D&D at all, really (aside from what I've learnt through 2YE).
I believe my algorithm works as stated assuming that the FBRs are continuously distributed away from the production area, and creation either has enough space and works, or doesn't and fails. At some point production overtakes distribution, at which point the number of FBRs/GGGs/GGs/Gs stays constant. You can simply clip the graph at that point.
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (an hour later)
I think you misunderstand me. I have no clue if Wish in general has range limits. I was saying that the gnome specifically was said to only make bedrolls between 20-50ft away. Giving a maximal volume of 156000pi
u/eaglejarl [+1] (2 hours later)
This is exactly the reason that I had Jake put in that volume restriction, actually. Without it, the Gnomes would generate a barrier of Bedrolls around themselves so that you couldn't get through to turn them off.
u/tilkau [+1] (2 hours later)
Shows how much attention I was paying, heh.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 hours later)
...it's possible that I overengineered this.
u/JT_Macguffin [+1] (2 hours later)
There are 14400 rounds per day, so the engine has a daily maximum output of... uh... *calculates furiously*... [500 billion](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28x^3%29%2F6+%2B+%28x^2 %29%2F2+at+x+%3D+14400).
Maybe a bit.
EDIT: Of course, the copper gnomes take up space too, and they would be up to 100 million at that point, which probably wouldn't fit in the space constraints. So actual output would be lower. (Unless they're allowed to occupy the same physical space and merge into a super-dense gnome-matter? In which case, you'd eventually get a tiny gnome neutron star or something.)
u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 hours later)
Of course, after one hour they've already produced 36 million Bedrolls, which is enough to supply every man, woman, child, and infant in both Anundjå and in Flobovia. An hour later they will be able to supply one to every sheep as well.
Good lord. I'm...I'm so proud. sniff
u/JT_Macguffin [+3] (3 hours later)
Just for fun, here's the Wolfman Alpha for the platinum gnome, which unless I'm being dumb would just be the antiderivative/integral of the previous equation. For added fun, let's assume Jake "forgot" to put in the volume restriction.
After 10 minutes it's already reached 5 million bedrolls. An hour and it's shot up to 5 billion. Let it run for the day and it's up to 1.8 quadrillion. A week and it's up to 5 quintillion. Depending on the size of the planet, that's enough to cover every square foot with well over a thousand bedrolls. Woops.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (3 hours later)
Your calculations implicitly assume that a gnome will create something the same round it is created itself. Is this the case? I'd made the opposite assumption.
u/tilkau [+2] (2 days later)
eaglejarl commented that each GGG fires before each GG before each G, which I took to mean that the first round should have one GGG creating one GG which creates one G, which creates one FBR, meaning that at the end of this round we will have one of everything involved.
EDIT: oops, ninjaed (have been away for two days)
u/eaglejarl [+1] (4 hours later)
Yep, that's the case. Also, I specified at the beginning that you could assume the GGG fires first, then all GGs, then all Gs. If the order of firing weren't well defined then the results wouldn't be either.
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (6 hours later)
Wait, but then you can easily fill any arbitrary volume with gnomes and FBRs in a single round. We know from POPEs that an engine can cast multiple spells a round, or at least consist of several spell engines each casting 1 per round. So if each gnome arm can cast Wish, wishing for a G^r will give you 2^r FBRs within a round, as each gnome wish will create two more wishes, which again create two more each etc.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (11 hours later)
It takes one Wish per engine; the POPEs needed 5 Wishes to create. The only reason they bundled them together was for efficiency -- you could get you +5 in one round instead of 5.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (11 hours later)
So 5 Gnomes work together? It takes 5 rounds for 1 gnome to make one? How are the POPEs made?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (13 hours later)
5 gnomes work together.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (4 hours later)
In which case, I retract my earlier solution. If you start with 1 G^r, at round n you end up with (1, nC1, (n+1)C2, (n+2)C3, ..., (n+r-1)Cr).
So, starting with a G^3, you get n(n+1)(n+2)/6 at round n. So, after an hour, you would have 36180200 FBRs
u/None [+3] (12 hours later)
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u/None [+3] (15 hours later)
[deleted]
u/eaglejarl [+2] (a day later)
That's...quite sick. Slick. I meant slick.
Vicious, but slick.
u/None [+1] (a day later)
[deleted]
u/eaglejarl [+3] (a day later)
Also, don't forget that tower shields break line of sight to you and all your gear...and the tower shield is part of your gear! if you're using a tower shield, you're invisible. And not magically "can be seen with True Seeing or See Invisible" either...you are TOTALLY UNSEEABLE, period.
u/None [+3] (a day later)
[deleted]
u/eaglejarl [+2] (a day later)
Yep. I had actually seen it before then, but he did a great job with it (unsurprisingly).
u/bbrazil [+3] NERV (11 hours later)
Derivative Clicker, now in D&D form!
u/eaglejarl [+2] (18 hours later)
Thanks ever so much for posting this. My entire morning just got shot to hell. grumble
u/TimeLoopedPowerGamer [+2] Utopian Smut Peddler (2 hours later)
I love this story. One of my favorites.
But for some reason, every time I see it in my alerts I instantly think: http://i.imgur.com/yVzjYyv.jpg
ANYWAY, thanks for the update.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 hours later)
?
What is that from?
(Also, glad you like it. :) )
u/TimeLoopedPowerGamer [+3] Utopian Smut Peddler (2 hours later)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure_Time
Ostensibly, a very popular kids/stoners cartoon. Also, a sometimes dark and adult story about a violent, post-apocalyptic world, with lots of fantasy and sci-fi trappings built into the absurdist presentation. It quite often meets rational fiction story requirements, with serious consequences and logical plot outcomes.
The characters are kids, but they still use the world as well as they can. Rules exist for a reason, if it is a fantasy trope, and are consistent. Things that happened earlier that no one noticed often come back as highly significant in later plot lines, often for perfectly logical reasons. It does world-building and plot advancement in almost every episode, even if that isn't always apparent. Virtually no take-backsie one-shots that don't change anything.
Usually rather funny, but also really sad sometimes with some serious moments. Like the ongoing storyline with a character who continually loses their memories, having lived centuries with a cursed magical artifact that they had originally used to survive the apocalypse. Their also-immortal friend has to deal with the situation of knowing someone who only sort-of remembers them and their long history together. It is maturely handled and emotionally moving. Some other downright futurist concepts get snuck in there sometimes, as well.
The creators are genuinely intelligent in their writing, and it is never dumbed down for its supposed younger audience. Instead, the metaphor and heavy significances are simply silently left in for the more adult topics and never explained. It isn't done like a Pixar movie, with the wink and a nudge for the parents. But instead, it is simply told mostly from a younger perspective, and the dialog reflects that. The world is still fully formed and deep, though, and that comes through all the time. Especially in the wreckage of civilization and the world itself, which is literally shattered.
Also, a stretchy dog creature farts. So. Yeah.
Won't make any sense at all unless one invests serious time reading up wikis and such, or watching a hundred or so episodes in some sort of order.
Which is one reason a lot of people dismiss it as merely banana-monkey-dishwasher wackiness when they drop in half-way through a single episode in, say, the last few episodes in the third season.
These people are shallow and dismissive of something genuinely good on TV. I like to laugh in their faces when those same people complain that English language TV doesn't have anything as deep and artistically significant as Japanese anime. Which I also like to watch quality examples of, of course, because I'm not a shallow, dismissive idiot myself. At least, not about that.
In conclusion, if you have the means, I highly recommend picking it up.
That was from Ferris Bueller's Day Off (1986), BTW.
Oh yeah. The dog is named "Jake". Huh.
u/autowikibot [+1] (2 hours later)
#####
######
#### Adventure Time:
Adventure Time (originally titled Adventure Time with Finn & Jake ) is an American animated television series created by Pendleton Ward for Cartoon Network. The series follows the adventures of Finn (voiced by Jeremy Shada), a human boy, and his best friend and adoptive brother Jake (voiced by John DiMaggio), a dog with magical powers to change shape and grow and shrink at will. Finn and Jake live in the post-apocalyptic Land of Ooo. Along the way, they interact with the other main characters of the show: Princess Bubblegum (voiced by Hynden Walch), The Ice King (voiced by Tom Kenny), and Marceline the Vampire Queen (voiced by Olivia Olson).
====
^Interesting: ^Be ^More ^(Adventure ^Time) ^| ^Daedelus ^(musician) ^| ^Adventure ^Time ^(pilot) ^| ^Adventure ^Time ^(1959 ^TV ^series)
^Parent ^commenter ^can [^toggle ^NSFW](http://www.np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot NSFW toggle&message=%2Btoggle-nsfw+ckaoh56) ^or [^delete](http://www.np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot Deletion&message=%2Bdelete+ckaoh56)^. ^Will ^also ^delete ^on ^comment ^score ^of ^-1 ^or ^less. ^| ^(FAQs) ^| ^Mods ^| ^Magic ^Words
u/themenniss [+2] Possibly self-aware (3 hours later)
<3 Graham's number. For the mathematics nerds, you may want to check out the my number is bigger thread on the xkcd forums. g64 is suitably overkill (its already large enough that doubling it doesn't make much difference), but Ack(Ack(g64, g64), Ack(g64, g64))...
Or y'know,
define h(1) = g64 [Ack(Ack(g64, g64), Ack(g64, g64)) up arrows] g64; h(n) = h(n-1) [Ack(Ack(h(n-1), h(n-1)), Ack(h(n-1), h(n-1))) up arrows] h(n-1); earring.setExperience(h(g64));
u/None [+2] (6 hours later)
I think this /r/math thread is very related, and a great read on top of that. Check it out!
u/Laborbuch [+3] (7 hours later)
I have to wonder how the various stat blessings will affect people (especially Jake as the viewpoint character).
I mean, if I get that right, the POPE will grant +5 to the various stats, respectively, right? And given the exponentially growing blessing capability soon enough everyone will have arbitrarily high stats, with the only distinguishing difference being what the characters started with and selected for when they gained character levels. My assumption is, soon enough either everyone will have a POPE and can increase all their stats +5 every… day or so.
Since all stats are similarly increased, there shouldn't even be a period of acclimatization to the increased stats be necessary. Sure, everyone is suddenly stronger, but their wisdom and thus perceptional and intuitive faculties ought to be increased as well, so no accidental dislocating door handles and other mishaps, right?
But what are the limitations? Will soon enough everyone be strong enough to
- jump hundreds of meters high (based on strength),
- put eyes out with paper air planes consistently (hand-eye coordination based on dexterity),
- have astronomical hit points (are there even hit points?),
- disable everything (based on intelligence),
- be living lie detectors (Sense Motive, Listen, Spot all based on wisdom),
- and be insanely appealing to everyone not blessed?
Also, if I got your chapter right, Jake now has +25 INT to whatever his natural score was due to each "I wish to be smarter" granting him +5 INT; the parenthesis pandemonium that followed was due to (a) the sudden increase and (b) Jake not having the appropriate increase in WIS that would have the willpower and intuition to deal with this.
(I never played D&D, but due to popcultural osmosis am aware of enough tidbits to reason a lot of stuff out, yet do not know the rules and, more relevant, tripfalls of the system.)
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (7 hours later)
There is a cap of +5 to any stat from inherent bonuses like Wish. You can only use a POPE once for each stat. When Jake wished 5 times to be smarter, he only got +1 INT per wish, for a total of +5. And the author has said that there are to-be-revealed reasons why Jake can't get extra CHA and WIS, as if he does he would utterly break the story, as his major weaknesses would eb removed
u/None [+1] (8 hours later)
I am pretty sure there are traitors involved. That's why we can't have nice things - somebody (Suze?) will kidnap Jake.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (9 hours later)
That wouldn't really explain why he can't get more CHA or WIS though. It would just mean he temporarily can't get it
u/Laborbuch [+1] (11 hours later)
So, to Jake everyone will look inexplicably better without any changes in outside appearance (extrapolated from the 'badass appearance' condition of the earring)? And, since the baseline is raised, Jake will appear to be less appealing to everyone else. Strange. I mean, it oughtn't have any influence on his behaviour, but still, odd.
And thank you, I obviously understood the POPE wrongly.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (11 hours later)
I don't think DnD really has a concept of a baseline. Jake will appear the same, but everyone else will suddenly become more attractive and charismatic. Their appearance may change, I am unsure how it really works in DnD. And they'll be more intelligent, wiser etc.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (11 hours later)
Unfortunately, Wish can only boost your stat by +5 EVER. Once you've been through six POPEs (one for each stat), you cannot benefit from a POPE ever again.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (13 hours later)
What happens if you get POPEd twice? No effect?
u/eaglejarl [+2] (13 hours later)
Correct.
There are six flavors of POPE, one per stat. Once you've been through the Strength POPE, no amount of Wishes or POPEs can ever increase your Strength again. Ditto for the Intelligence/Wisdom etc POPE.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (13 hours later)
In that case, would it not have been more efficient to have a single 30 barrel POPE? If Jake is any indication, massive increases in intelligence or whatever cause people to be somewhat distracted for a bit, which makes it somewhat difficult to get them out fo the way and streamine the process.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (17 hours later)
Yeah, it would have been. Jake didn't think ahead enough and no one else pointed it out.
u/Nepene [+1] (13 hours later)
Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (13 hours later)
I meant, if you already have +5 INT and you wish for more INT, does anything happen to you? Or is there no effect. Not what if you wished for +1 INT twice. The author has said that there is no effect.
u/Nepene [+1] (14 hours later)
Yes, and I was citing the official rules, where it notes you can have a max 5+ inherent bonus, so casting has no effect, which the author was clearly using.
u/alexanderwales [+1] Time flies like an arrow (13 hours later)
No effect.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (9 seconds later)
That's odd. I wonder why it isn't picking up the link image...?
u/bbrazil [+1] NERV (11 hours later)
The image is on the host ffcdn2012-fictionpressllc.netdna-ssl.com, which doesn't resolve.
Other stories have the same issue, so FF.net likely broke something.
u/None [+1] (2 hours later)
I'm wondering if it would have been better to create a Duplicate Item Gnome Gnome.
I am imagining a magic item that I shall call a Duplicate Item Gnome. It is a one foot tall magically invulnerable statue of a gnome. It starts with one googolplex experience points. It can be primed with a magic item. Waving a magic item within three inches in front of the face of the statue primes it with that magic item. Every round, if the statue is upright and is primed with a magic item and has sufficient experience points, it produces a copy of that magic item.
Then a Duplicate Item Gnome Gnome is a magic item, similarly capable of being primed with a magic item; the DIGs that the DIGG produces inherit the DIGG's primed magical item.
This is a bit more complex, but you only have one family of item makers to deal with. It's easy to switch out the type of magic item you're creating.
I think the largest problem with this tactic is narration. It's easy to narrate the current set of items: something that spews out fortifying bedrolls, then something that spews out that. It's another layer of abstraction to get to something that spews out copies of a given item, and it isn't as easy to draw a path for the reader from something concrete to this abstraction. It's also a bit harder to follow the additional abstraction from a DIG to a DIGG [to a DIGGG].
u/Gurkenglas [+1] (3 hours later)
I'd guess that "the Gods check your wording" when you Wish for an item, and Arros allowed automation of the production of simple magic items, where "simple" isn't easily explained to a Wish. "Make lots of Bedrolls" is allowed, "Make lots of Magic items" not.
u/None [+2] (7 hours later)
Actually, rereading, Fragment says that "the normal magical items are acceptable", suggesting that a duplicator for arbitrary magical items isn't. While you could add additional restrictions to ensure that this scheme can't duplicate non-standard magical items, but Arros might be a bit suspicious of this line of inquiry.
u/ulyssessword [+1] (10 hours later)
One thing that they're missing is extra fighters, every death is a tragedy. Maybe an Admantine Golem Maker Maker Maker next?
Or maybe just boost the people more. I don't know if Spell Engines can do personal range spells or not, but Shapechange, Foresight,
Globe of InvulnerabilitySpell Resistance, Bear's Endurance/Cat's Grace/etc, and Holy Aura (all level 10,000,000 for immunity to dispel and year long durations) would be amazing buffs for any combatant. Delay Death would be amazing if it exists as well.EDIT:...if you can make a level 10 million spell engine. Stretching a 1 round/level spell to lasting two years might be pushing it. If arbitrarily high spell levels are allowed, there's all sorts of exploits that are possible.
Would a Mass Heal engine be allowed? Running into battle with one would be very effective, damaging all undead enemies within 30 feet 250 damage per round per engine, and healing all allies the same amount.
For new tactics, they can now carry out instantaneous attacks with their high level casters. Time Stop, then Greater Teleport, drop Doge Balls (or some other free action), then teleport back out again. It is literally impossible to retaliate against the attacker if they do this, and each Wizard 20/Sorcerer 20 can do this 10x per day (or more if they have >= 28 Int/Cha).
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (12 hours later)
Surely Ice Assassin would be far more efficient for the making of fighters. A high level caster is far more powerful than a high level fighter
u/ulyssessword [+1] (13 hours later)
I was under the impression that the Gods put strict limits on Ice Assassin use, but I may need to reread it.
The advantage of high level Golems (or a Colossus if you want one) is that they are completely invulnerable to lesser undead, and very resistant to casters. As long as nothing can get through it's DR 20, spell immunity, and construct traits, it can fight off an entire legion of ghouls, zombies, skeletons, and vampires, and ignore the ghosts and shades. Golems are ideal for front-line fighting against an undead horde.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (13 hours later)
The problem is that fighting is unnecessary. When you can teleport above the battlefield, drop a pack of Doge Balls and teleport out, you have utterly destroyed that legion. What need do you have of pointy stick wielders?
And Arros explicitly gave the OK to the Landguard using Ice Assassin. Largely because he thought it was a terribly idea and so hilarious, but we must make do with what we have
u/eaglejarl [+1] (18 hours later)
And also because the Landguard is legally constrained to 2000 members, so they won't make that many IAs.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (a day later)
Will the rest of these new super casters be using ice assassin?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (a day later)
They haven't checked that one with Fragment yet. Assuming he doesn't kibosh it, yes.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (19 hours later)
Colossus is very cool, but can't be used in 2YE: it requires that the person constructing it be able to cast epic spells, and 2YE has no epic.
u/ulyssessword [+2] (21 hours later)
Polymorph pebble to Iron Collossus wouldn't work, similar to the FLEA?
u/eaglejarl [+2] (3 days later)
Nope. Nothing that requires epic.
It's a bit arbitrary, I grant, but it keeps things simple to have an absolute rule.
u/khokkanen [+1] (a day later)
I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but isn't five ability points sort of redundant? Characters gain an ability point every four levels so after FLEA five points is a really minor bump in ability.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (a day later)
Every point counts, though, and it's basically free so why not do it?
u/khokkanen [+1] (a day later)
True. This just means that without a way for Jake to improve himself beyond that +5 he's going to be left way behind in the ability department. Also, due to munchkining (who doesn't do that?) most characters would dump those ability points into one to three abilities.
I also hope that Jake's reaction to Intelligence enhancement isn't usual or Intelligence enhancement after the turret and FLEA would make many people kill themselves.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (a day later)
No worries on that score -- StupidWorlders won't freak out like that. There's nothing in RAW about ability enhancement being difficult, so it isn't. I felt that Jake, coming from outside the system and without its protections, would probably have some reactions to his brain being modified, that's all.
Besides, it added good drama and made it clear that he had actually been enhanced.
As to being left behind in ability scores -- Jake has never really been within shouting distance of any of the main character-leveled folks. Isaac/Reynard/Matthew/Unn have always been smarter. Drifa and Albrecht have always been wiser. The Landguard are ridiculously stronger and faster. All he's got is outside perspective, deep knowledge of the RAW, and the memory of a lot of internet discussion about exploits.
u/khokkanen [+1] (3 days later)
Shouldn't Isaac/Reynard/Matthew/Unn/Drifa/Albrecht just Mindscrape him then?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (3 days later)
Well, first of all, Mindscrape isn't really a polite thing to do to a friend.
Possibly more importantly, it's an Evil spell that is banned in Flobovia. So, Mindscraping Jake is literally against the Writ (the law), which means the Landguard will kill you if you try.
Finally, my interpretation of Mindscrape is that it gives you all of the subjects knowledge and memories as something like the Brainopedia; all of the information is there, you have a good sense of what's in it and you can easily find anything you're looking for...but you have to look for it. It's not the same as your own knowledge where the information is fully comprehended and connected with everything else so things float to the surface / suggest themselves to you on their own.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (4 days later)
As ruler, isn't the law a non issue for Jake? He can just change it
u/eaglejarl [+1] (4 days later)
Much like real world nations, Flobovia has two levels of legal structure: the law and the Writ. Think "legislation" and "Constitution."
Mostly, Jake can muck with the law all he wants but cannot change the Writ without some lengthy and difficult hoop-jumping.
In practice, there are limits on what he can do with the law as well. Lady Justice is, as has been shown, rather proprietary about the legal system, and the Conclave also has some strong feelings about things. Changes that they disapprove of tend to be lost in the paperwork shuffle, or poorly enforced. Although, yes, that doesn't affect things happening in his immediate presence.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (4 days later)
The Conclave. I had kinda forgotten that they existed. Will we be returning to Flobovia at any point? You invested a lot of narrative time into world building for it and it's various governmental bodies, and we haven't seen much for quite a while
u/eaglejarl [+1] (4 days later)
The story moved out from under me a bit. We probably won't see Flobovia again until the Drauga War is settled. Once that's done I have an idea of what comes next; that story would be based back in Flobovia.
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (a day later)
It's hardly redundant. People from FLEA get something like 60 levels. That's a 15 point increase. POPE gives them +30. That's a pretty substantial addition
u/eaglejarl [+1] (a day later)
Technically it's +5 to each stat, which isn't quite as strong as just +30-however-you-want-it, but yes. Definitely not negligible
u/Zephyr1011 [+1] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (4 days later)
Could they also create magic items to cast stat boosting spells like eagle's splendour with arbitrarily high level, so it essentially lasts forever? And are they mass producing items like headbands of intellect, to further optimise stats?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (4 days later)
Ooh, good thought. They haven't been doing that yet, and they would need approval: Fragment okayed them making magic items that are on the regular lists, but custom items still need approval.
u/RMcD94 [+0] (3 days later)
So I notice the entire world become unsafe for their kind, uh, just leave a place that's safe. Problem solved, considering there has to be deeper darkness somewhere cast it'll never be "entire world unsafe", also if there's a way to wish for a magic item that can give a command word to turn them off, a word which simply needs to be said (by the creator) not heard by the object on the same plane.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (3 days later)
How big a place? Do you want to take a chance on starting a war between god-level beings that will without doubt spill over into the physical world?
So far as the BDHs know, there isn't a defined rule "if X% is safe, you are ok". It's the opinion of the individual Outer Plane rulers as to whether something constitutes a violation or not. Much like a nation can decide whether and how much they're going to bitch about one of their traditional enemies moving troops up to the common border for "military exercises."
u/RMcD94 [+0] (3 days later)
I'm wondering then if a flash of light through the entire plane (world more likely) for one round would count, it does render the entire place unsafe but not for very long.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (3 days later)
So far, Fragment has been shutting down any OP idea that kills or neutralizes the enemy en masse. This says some interesting things about how the gods fight.