15 KiB
[RT][MK]Log Horizon - Anime
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Author: u/Drexer *
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/2igzm1/rtmklog_horizon_anime/
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Score: 15
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Created: 2014-10-06T18:31:47
Post:
So, I started watching this anime just a few days ago after stumbling upon a positive description of it.
About an year ago I ended up talking to friends about the (in)famous Sword Art Online anime that they were starting to watch, and I ended up reading the novel on which it was based. It was a small bit of a mind-numb reading, but nothing too bad until I started the second volume and threw the container where the digital copy was across the room is disgust. As such, I was quite reticent about diving into another show about MMORPG-turned-real-world, but this did seem to be quite a bit different. The following is the description of my reactions as I went along.
Episode 1-5: Okay, so nice setting, reasonable characters. Some annoying anime tropes but I guess that's expected. It's nice how there's a heavy element of mechanics explanation and exploration, and how they work within the framework of the game.
Episode 6: Oh, the main character just got a goal? That's nice, he's focused and it seems like the first arc of the story is rounding up then, that's nice.
Episode 7-9: Wait, is he conquering the MMORPG world through economics? That... makes perfect sense. This almost seems like something I would see on r/rational. And wow, those were quite the checkmate moves, I'm enjoying this more and more.
Episode 10: ...THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING...SQUARED. It appears this will now turn into an anime version of the 2YE.
And that was how I ended up here sharing this. Now if you don't mind I'm going to continue watching because the 2nd season is currently starting its airing schedule.
Comments:
u/JackStargazer [+7] Primordial Apologist (13 minutes later)
I agree 100% with this recommendation.
You should watch the first episode of the second season.
It's even more economics.
"So, we need some money."
"How much?"
"More than exists."
"Don't worry, it isn't actually a problem."
Also, episode.. 20ish? Where the reveal in episode 10 finally comes to fruition is...
Really good.
You'll know it when it happens. There is a big beam of light and everything. It is munchkinism at its finest.
u/DaystarEld [+3] Pokémon Professor (6 hours later)
The second season's out?!
closes reddit
u/Drexer [+2] (23 hours later)
Having just seen 'it' happen in episode 20, I've got to say it was everything I could have hoped.
Like some people said above it seems to slow down a bit between episodes 10 to 20, but to me it just seems to vary its tone instead of losing momentum. Sometimes it's more of characters muchkining their way through their reality(in exceptionally awesome ways), other times it's political manuvering interspecced with character moments interactions which revolve a lot around self-improvement and achieving their objectives through strategy and work.
It's quite a bit of a slow burner through 'big' events, but I sometimes find myself so entranced by the verbal joust in the dialogues that the 20 minutes of the episode just fly by.
u/Drexer [+2] (23 hours later)
And just for reference for anyone who might be getting curious about it the big event in episode 20 is.
u/Anderkent [+7] (18 minutes later)
Yeah I liked the first 10-12 episodes too. Then it lost momentum and turned into a slice of life with characters that I really couldn't give a damn about.
u/DaystarEld [+2] Pokémon Professor (6 hours later)
Yeah, and I hated Mild Season 1 spoiler.
Awesome.
Ugh.
Hoping the second season really plays that down a bit.
u/JackStargazer [+2] Primordial Apologist (7 hours later)
It's actually up in the air whether Spoiler
u/injygo [+3] (2 hours later)
What's 2YE?
u/Empiricist_or_not [+2] Aspiring polite Hegemonizing swarm (2 hours later)
The Two Year Emperor is a fanfic that posts every Saturday about a self insert character, coronated as absolute dictator of a D&D empire under attack; much munchkining ensues. It publishes every Saturday, and it's author also has the thread about a kick starter for paid rationalist horror stories.
u/narfanator [+3] (3 hours later)
To its definite credit, the subsequent Big Bad and the Unlikely Allie themselves had figured out many such munchkining techniques, independent of the self-insert character.
u/Topher876 [+2] (3 days later)
okay I'm enjoying it but i have one major issue that just keeps bugging me. in the episode Shiroe stumbles and trips multiple times citing that his height is off. I thought that was a nice touch, then we get to a cat person who has the body control of a freakin acrobat.
other than that though I've enjoyed it a lot.
u/logrusmage [+2] (11 minutes later)
It was a small bit of a mind-numb reading, but nothing too bad until I started the second volume and threw the container where the digital copy was across the room is disgust.
I mean... were you not expecting romance novel tropes? Because SAO is much more so a romance than a scifi or adventure story.
u/Drexer [+9] (20 minutes later)
I was not expecting the main female character being kept under threat of non-voluntary marriage and rape while unconscious to be used as the motivation for the main character.
There's romance, and then there's disgusting tropes.
u/logrusmage [-2] (2 hours later)
How is that any more of a disgusting trope than any other bad thing that will happen to hero's loved one if she doesn't win?
u/Drexer [+9] (2 hours later)
Because there is such a thing as character agency?
And using a romantic partner held hostage for character motivation is hardly original/interesting/romantic/anything-whatsoever-in-a-positive-term?
Like I said, I found the first book passable as nothing too engaging(and yes, romances can be engaging, when they have fully fleshed out characters, stories and concepts to support themselves) and I did finish it and started the next book.
But then that was such an awful development that it pretty much shattered any suspension of disbelief. It marked the story as ending any possibility of being a romance story with equal partners, to being some kind of fantasy of the main character rescuing the imprisioned girl while she dangles over a precipice of threats.
And if you're not seeing any problem with the statistical over-representation of that same trope in entertainment past then I really don't see how I can continue this conversation?
u/None [+3] (2 days later)
This. Season 1 (I watched the show and read book 1): Kirito is the object of all the ladies' affection, yeah, but it's not played poorly, at least not as poorly as it could be, and Asuna is a BAMF for the most part.
Season 2: it's the kind of plot that makes me want to watch it just so the bad guy gets punched in the face. Asuna does things that hardly matter--some exceptions--and in the end has to be saved. Like that hasn't been done before.
u/Kir-chan [+3] (2 days later)
To be fair, Asuna lost her agency by the time she had to rely on her boyfriend to get her guild to give her a vacation, for no good reason. That was the point I wanted to chuck the monitor out of the window.
u/logrusmage [-3] (3 hours later)
Because there is such a thing as character agency?
...Being kidnapped/imprisoned eliminates character agency? Since when?
And using a romantic partner held hostage for character motivation is hardly original/interesting/romantic/anything-whatsoever-in-a-positive-term?
Bullshit. Its a cliche precisely because it's romantic and a power motivator for a hero. I'd certainly agree, however, that it isn't at all original. But then again, so few hero-motivations are.
Like I said, I found the first book passable as nothing too engaging(and yes, romances can be engaging, when they have fully fleshed out characters, stories and concepts to support themselves) and I did finish it and started the next book.
I can agree with that.
But then that was such an awful development that it pretty much shattered any suspension of disbelief.
What? How exactly did that shatter your SoD?
It marked the story as ending any possibility of being a romance story with equal partners, to being some kind of fantasy of the main character rescuing the imprisioned girl while she dangles over a precipice of threats.
What? She escapes at numerous points and helps undue what amounts to a mass slavery scheme.
As well, why do romantic partnerships need to be equal in game? Why is it such a terrible thing for one partner to be more important, because they're the primary protagonist?
And if you're not seeing any problem with the statistical over-representation of that same trope in entertainment past then I really don't see how I can continue this conversation?
No, I really don't see an ethical problem with it, if that's what you mean. I'd agree that it gets boring after awhile, but it certainly doesn't warrant the word "disgusting."
Just curious, would you have had such a major problem with it if it was Kirito who got kidnapped, and the plot played out in exactly the same way except gender swapped?
u/JackStargazer [+6] Primordial Apologist (7 hours later)
Being kidnapped/imprisoned eliminates character agency? Since when?
In this case, it turns a character who, at least for her first few appearances, actually did things which were fairly impressive - was second in command of the largest guild, ran raids, helped Kirito basically duo kill the first boss, is generally known as a terror in her own right with a nickname and everything - into a whining completely ineffectual damsel in distress, whose only escape attempt exists primarily to set up a tentacle scene.
Yes it's bad writing, but it is even more damning because before the romance arc started around episode 8/9/10 ish, Asuna actually seemed to have a lot of agency for a main female in shounen.
u/Kir-chan [+2] (2 days later)
Asuna actually seemed to have a lot of agency for a main female in shounen.
I've seen a lot of shonen and SAO is definitely one of the worse ones when it comes to character agency, even before ALO started. Naruto is another bad example, yet most of the female characters are independent and fight their own battles.
When Asuna wanted to leave the guild for a while, it was Kirito who had to fight the guild master for her right to do that. We are told she is amazing, but we never actually see that past the second episode. The only thing the anime insists on showing us is how good she is at cooking, of all things.
Furthermore, the only contribution Asuna had to the 'final' battle was when she broke the game mechanics using "the power of her love" (and just how she did this was never explained), just to die a moment later, serving as nothing more than a device to motivate Kirito.
u/Anderkent [+4] (5 hours later)
Bullshit. Its a cliche precisely because it's romantic and a power motivator for a hero.
That's the problem. Everything girls do is SAO is to show how awesome Kirito is. And while a self-aware show could pull something like that off with generous application of parody, SAO fails to.
It occasionally has better moments, the recent GGO arc wasn't that bad, but SAO was really hard to watch.
And then there's the tentacle rape scene. Which had no point at all, other than pandering to a certain demographic.
u/logrusmage [+1] (5 hours later)
Everything everyone does is to show how awesome Kirito is. He's about as Gary Stu as anime protagonists get. That's not a gender problem it's a writing problem.
The fan service was indeed annoying, but again I wouldn't call it ethically wrong or disgusting.
Fyi I don't think SAO is a good show. It was ok and it totally had some awesome moments. I just didn't understand the disgust.
u/gabbalis [+1] (5 hours later)
Hey... I know log horizon! that's the novel I found online in Japanese while trying to learn Japanese! And in only took me 5 minutes to read the title...
Needless to say I quickly returned to practicing my Kana.
u/triangleman83 [+1] (19 hours later)
So wait, it's the exact plot of SAO? That's a bit strange.
I did just finish up the first SAO, I think there's more offshoots of it or something, but is this one better? More rational?
SAO did fairly good at setting up the rules but then the characters just started breaking the rules like they were in the Matrix when it was convenient for the plot...
u/Drexer [+5] (23 hours later)
It has the same simple premise: "real worl people stuck in an RPG".
But while I wouldn't say it is 100% rational, it goes in a much more satisfying way in exploring the setting:
-The characters strive to improve themselves and the world they are in, instead of just going along with the usual game motions.
-They work around and through the game's mechanics to exploit them to their advantage.
-There is a big emphasys on explaining details to the viewer, from episodes which are pretty much only about battle tactics to short bits at the beginning explaining mechanics like the economy of the game or mob spawning behaviour.
-When it deals with characters and personal drama it seems to strive to make sure that it deals with the politics of characters interacting more than just stumbling into situations brought on by external events.
And many more small things that make it much more enjoyable to me.
u/alexanderwales [+3] Time flies like an arrow (a day later)
I hated SAO, mostly because it seemed like it was a waste of a perfectly good premise. The first episode seemed to promise so much, and then the actual series fell flat on its face. The fact that they just seemed to be making up rules as they went made it that much worse. It seemed like it was going to be a psychological character study, and then it ended up being a power fantasy.
u/logrusmage [+1] (4 days later)
Back from binge watching. On the final episode of season 1 right now.
Thank you for this recommendation! Waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than SAO!