22 KiB
[RT][HF](one-off short story)Rational Game of Thrones
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Author: u/None *
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/2jlylx/rthfoneoff_short_storyrational_game_of_thrones/
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Score: 26
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Created: 2014-10-18T14:48:34
Post:
Chapter 1:
"The Hand of the King?" Eddard Stark repeated, taken aback. "Your Grace honours me with his request, and so it pains me that I cannot accept."
Robert Baratheon stood up, flagon of ale still in hand, and said warningly, "It was not a request."
Ned turned towards the balcony of his solar, which looked out over his keep, and replied slowly, "Robert, you know you will always have my friendship, my fealty, and my advice if you would hear it, but... winter is coming."
"I know your house words, Ned. I need you in King's Landing. I need a man I can trust."
"The politics of the south have always been a mess of conspirators, liars, and traitors. And probably always shall be. But autumn is upon us and my Maester tells me the winter may be the longest in living memory. A decade-long winter isn't an inconvenience, it's an extinction event! No, I beg your forgiveness, but my place is here with my family; with my people. I must help prepare in any way I can. I am deeply sorry about Lord Arryn, but untangling an assassination plot can not be my priority right now."
"Ned, please. You would make your king beg? I am still your king, if you had forgotten. Come to the capital with me, and return to Winterfell later. There's still time for two harvests, at the very least. Let the smallfolk worry about the farms and the fields; it's what they do anyway," answered Robert, waving his hand disparagingly towards the town.
"And where are they to store the harvests? My granaries need to be expanded; who will handle that if I am not here? I need to oversee the felling of trees for firewood, the storage of seeds, the construction of properly-insulated dwellings for the townspeople, the institution of a rationing system, the canning and preservation of meat and vegetables, the breeding of winter work-horses, the digging of ditches to remove meltwater in the spring, and a thousand other things, not only with a mind for surviving the winter, but for rebuilding after. I may not live to see the end of this winter, Robert, I know that. But it is my duty to ensure my sons and daughters do. Please, you cannot ask me to leave."
The king fixed Ned with an icy glare, threw down his ale, and said "So be it, then. Do not be looking for help from the south so long as I rule." He stormed out of the room.
Ned sat down heavily and buried his face in his hands. A friendship in tatters, weighed against the survival of my kin. My choice was the right one, but that doesn't make it any easier.
Chapter 2:
Later, everyone died, because this is Game of Thrones.
Comments:
u/sicutumbo [+17] (53 minutes later)
I always felt like a rational game of thrones would not go well. The characters in the story are not always rational, but they all have personal motivations, and are generally consistent with them. If this chapter was transplanted into the books, it would be really weird, because suddenly Ned, who's most prominant trait is to do the honorable thing at all costs, suddenly goes back on that honor in order to do a more coldly calculated task. I get that this is fan fiction, but it just feels kinda odd.
Ultimately, I think GoT rational fan fiction doesnt really work because the characters are all usually pretty "rational", in the sense that they do logically consistent things based on their own personal morality. This may not always be the most optimal thing to do, but the characters arent dumb. The difference between rational GoT and regular GoT is small enough that it wouldnt really be appreciated much, and in the same vein, noone hase tried rational Watchmen, as it really just wouldn't be all that different, and would go against the main themes of the book
u/None [+21] (an hour later)
I think it's not a coincidence that the characters most rationalized in HPMOR are characters who were never very complex, 3-dimensional, or even just interesting in canon. When the appeal of the story is primarily the world, you can make bland, dull Harry into a very different person and still have a story that feels like Harry Potter. When the story is more about the characters and their choices, making them very different characters wouldn't feel like the same story.
Of course it ultimately depends on the writer's skill, but this is e.g. why I think a rational The Last Airbender wouldn't be very good. A story about Zuko making sensible choices from the start or Aang being a calculating utilitarian who has no problem using his full power to defeat the Fire Nation isn't a different story from TLA, it's the nullification of the story.
Superman, HPMOR, Lord of the Rings, these are great for rational fiction. Character-based stories like Got, TLA, and so on don't have such obvious alternative rational stories waiting to be written. Maybe it just needs a skillful author and an innovative take on rational fiction, but I don't see it.
u/None [+5] (an hour later)
That makes a lot of sense, /u/writingathing. Insightful comment as usual; I'll have to give this some more thought. Like, what about Star Wars? Would that be a good candidate?
u/alexanderwales [+9] Time flies like an arrow (an hour later)
My personal opinion is that Star Wars would be great for it. If you've ever read the Hand of Thrawn trilogy, it comes somewhat close to not having bullshit space opera all over the place, with a villain that actually seems smart. Or the KOTOR games, which flesh out the Jedi and Sith distinction and make it a lot less clear cut that the Jedi are paragons of good, whatever that is.
Though it's not really that Star Wars is flat per se, it's that it's very archetypal and goes for spectacle over thoughtfulness. Star Wars is all about the hero's journey, and I think sacrifices a lot for that (which isn't to say that you can't have a hero's journey and thoughtfulness).
u/None [+6] (an hour later)
Not obviously to me, in this case because the plot is so linear. What critical choices does Luke make, aside from abandoning his training to face Vader? If we make that rational, then Luke sensibly listens to Yoda and that confrontation doesn't happen, so....
There's also the problem that making things rational obviates a lot of the plot, like the very existence of a death star or its glaring weak point, the weapons used and the depiction of space flight....
It all depends on the author and the ideas they have, but it seems to me that a serious rational take on Star Wars would require such significant changes you might as well make it original fiction. I don't think the "Star Wars feel" lends itself to rational fiction the way the "Harry Potter feel" so aptly has. Then again, maybe I'm wrong and you could tell a really interesting story about the Force being some kind of intelligence amplifier and a war between supersmart beings across a galaxy. But is that really Star Wars? The amazing thing about HPMOR for all its changes is that it still feels like reading Harry Potter.
Admittedly, all of this could just be the bias from having seen Harry Potter rationalized well, and it's possible that had Yudkowsky chosen to write Star Wars IV: A New Way of Thinking, I would be arguing something very different here.
u/sicutumbo [+6] (2 hours later)
Maybe it could be more of a fight between Luke and the Emperor, instead of primarily Luke and Darth? Like Luke needs to work hard in order to counter the propaganda that the Empire uses, and the Death Star was used for more convoluted reasons than just blowing up planets. Before the EU was made mostly non-canon, it was theorized, with decent evidence, that the Emperor was building such massive fleets in order to fight the upcoming invasion of the Yuzhun Vong (how the hell do you spell this?).
Luke finally, after years and countless deaths, through innumerable hardships, finally struck down the Emperor, as his fleets burned around him. The Death Star was gone, as well as most of the Rebel fleet, all attempting to take down this power-mad tyrant. As the Emperor takes his final breaths, Luke hears him talking, at first unintelligibly, but as he listens more he begins to pick out the words the dying man is speaking.
"You fool. You've doomed us all. There is an invasion comong, the likes of which this gakaxy has never seen. They are the world eaters, the darkness in the sky, the oncoming storm. They will tear this galaxy asunder, and make everything in their own image. Everything I have done, from the propaganda to the slavery, the destruction of worlds down to the smallest dark ritual, has been in an effort to give this galaxy the chance to fight back against this threat, this galaxy spanning extinction event. I have not been a good man. I have tortured and enslaved millions, torn families and governmemts and worlds apart, in order to get just one more fleet, one more cruiser into the sky. Because without if we fail to confront this foe, our galaxy shall burn, and every cruelty I have inflicted will seem as nothing to that. Your father, the man that you killed, was the only other person to share my vision, to know what was coming and to take steps against it, while everyone else cowered in fear against this atrocity making its way towards us."
"But you, boy, have ruined everything. You have destroyed my fleets and superweapons, the things that so many had to suffer and die to build, in your naive quest to save this galaxy from the tyrant you thought me to be. Now, all hope is lost. This civilization shall die, consumed by this greatest foe, because some child thought to do good."
"My only consolation is that I shall not live to see the horrors that await you. I was prepared to be history's greatest villain, but I had hoped for there to be a history to have."
u/None [+2] (3 hours later)
Sure, that could be interesting. But if Luke is a propagandist then we are talking about a story that feels very different from the original trilogy. I wonder why you wouldn't want to simply write original fiction at that point, which you could at least sell.
I don't recognize the quote. Or did you write that just now?
u/sicutumbo [+2] (3 hours later)
I was mainly getting at that the main story could be similar, also making the story a bit more rational overall, and then have this at the ending.
I wrote it. You'll note a few spelling mistakes
u/Roxolan [+1] Head of antimemetiWalmart senior assistant manager (3 hours later)
"And you never told ANYONE?"
Seems less rational fiction, and more diabolus ex machina.
u/sicutumbo [+1] (3 hours later)
I said he told Vader, and implied that he told others. Just everyone except Vader ran away from the problems instead of attempting to fix them
u/Roxolan [+2] Head of antimemetiWalmart senior assistant manager (3 hours later)
True. But he apparently did not tell rational!Luke, not until it was too late.
u/psychothumbs [+2] (4 hours later)
Yeah, it's a bit ridiculous for Palpatine to be down on Luke for seeing an evil dictator and wanting to get rid of him, when he had no way of knowing the secret justification for Palpatine's actions.
u/PeridexisErrant [+6] put aside fear for courage, and death for life (9 hours later)
Fix that then: The upcoming existential threat of an invasion is a key part of the message of the Empire... and the Rebels dismiss it as a ploy to gain power, ignore it as Pascal's mugging, etc.
Palpatine told everyone, and the rebels wouldn't listen!
u/psychothumbs [+1] (4 hours later)
Cool concept, but my main issue with this whole explanation is why would Palpatine not tell anybody about the upcoming invasion? It seems like that could only have made things easier for him.
u/sicutumbo [+1] (5 hours later)
He did, and only Vader took action
u/psychothumbs [+1] (5 hours later)
What do you mean by that? The Vong invasion in the books took everyone by surprise, so clearly it wasn't exactly common knowledge.
u/sicutumbo [+1] (5 hours later)
It was hypothesized that Palpatine, through some future sight I think, saw the invasion of the Vong coming, and thats why he took over the republic and created the death star and such large fleets. It's been a while since I first read it, so I dont remember the details.
u/psychothumbs [+1] (5 hours later)
Yeah I got that part, I mean the part about him telling people but only Vader taking action.
u/TimeLoopedPowerGamer [+2] Utopian Smut Peddler (12 hours later)
I've got a single change, Rational Star Wars fanfic story 90% done. About 20k words long for the first (almost complete) part. It covers from Obi-Wan's training (briefly) up to a (by that point) almost totally AU A New Hope (the first Star Wars movie) opening scenes.
The change is Qui-Gon helping young Obi-Wan to deal with his female relationships rationally, instead of just watching and encouraging him to ignore a series of interested women, including his life-long friend and fellow Jedi. Basically, I went through the teacher and apprentice working out how to manage the risks of attachment and strong emotions that Jedi face, and the ripples moving outward from that. I also expand on what those emotional issues really are, not just leaving it as a "fall in love: fall to the dark side" sort of thing.
The twist? Force users all unconsciously low-level mind control/force persuade people by accident when emotionally roused. This is not incompatible with movie and even EU canon. In fact, canon Anakin's super-awkward love affair with Padme makes horrible sense in light of this fanon.
u/None [+2] (21 hours later)
This sounds amazing. Please link it here when you've posted it.
u/TimeLoopedPowerGamer [+1] Utopian Smut Peddler (a day later)
Will do. It isn't rationalist yet, though I might briefly scrub it over with an eye towards that before my first draft is done. Put in some more logical plot clues, a little more mystery, and some in-depth problem solving.
I want to finish the short story before publishing, because I've got so much else on my plate that I can't do the write-post-write-post thing right now.
If it works, I was intending to write the entire 4-6 movie time period, and maybe even some new Jedi-era stuff. Maybe another 20k words each. After that, I might just write a Rational Jedi World novel with all OCs.
Something like that could even have the serial numbers filed off and be turned into an "original" fiction novel. We'll see.
u/sicutumbo [+3] (2 hours later)
I think a TLA fic could be good, but it would be much harder to do than Harry Potter, for the reasons you described. The characters don't have to, and really shouldnt, start off as making extremely smart decisions and having few character flaws. You could have Zuko consumed by his quest for vengeance, and eventually realize that honor isnt all that it's cracked up to be, or that taking down the Fire Lord is the only way to bring peace to the world. Aang could still be the same character, but then he is forced to deal with the consequences of not being aggressive towards the fire nation, or in not using his power to stop them while they wage war on the Earth kingdom. Or maybe even allowing the Earth King to have so much power in the first place.
Arguably, many of these themes that I described are already present in the show, and that is part of the reason the show is so great, but they could still be expanded upon, and have a more lasting effect on Aang and the rest of the group.
Something else I thought of: what if the Avatar state, instead of giving the combined bending power of all the avatars, gave the combined knowledge of all of them? Like, Aang is no more powerful in the avatar state, in terms of bending, than he is normally, but he understands bending on such a deep level that he becomes vastly more powerful because of it. Then gradually he learns how bending works at such a deep level in his normal form that he is effectively always in the avatar state. Could be really interesting mechanic
u/None [+2] (2 hours later)
Sure, but since those themes are in the show, it sounds like regular fanfiction rather than rational fanfiction. Could still be good.
I thought of: what if the Avatar state, instead of giving the combined bending power of all the avatars, gave the combined knowledge of all of them?
Way ahead of you (plus shitty astronomy). Yes this is definitely how the Avatar state should be handled in rational fiction (which mine is definitely not).
Then gradually he learns how bending works at such a deep level in his normal form that he is effectively always in the avatar state.
Meh, Goku and Gohan already did that. Besides, it would get kind of overpowered. Also, presumably if that worked you could simply teach anyone to be that powerful. But maybe that's actually the point, and Aang creates a group of transbenders or something. Could be interesting.
u/None [+1] (5 hours later)
I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times, we've argued about it in PM, and I'll say it many more times: You should definitely be posting that fic to this sub.
u/AmeteurOpinions [+4] Finally, everyone was working together. (an hour later)
Yeah, this is one thing everyone attempting Rational! Fics must consider. Making it more rational should improve the source material, not heckle it.
It's a fanficftion. It already has the potential to be vastly superior to the original simply because you can correct mistakes as an nth draft of the original.
u/sicutumbo [+2] (2 hours later)
Wait, is your flair from Worm?
u/AmeteurOpinions [+3] Finally, everyone was working together. (4 hours later)
Yes.
u/sicutumbo [+1] (5 hours later)
Nice
u/None [+2] (2 hours later)
You're not wrong, and it's really why this is just a short thing instead of a beginning of a larger work of fan fiction. I'm rereading the Song of Ice and Fire books and was wondering to myself what small deviations at the beginning could have the largest changes later on. Since it's so character-driven, it allows for a lot more chaos (in the proper sense) than event-driven fiction, I think. This is just one such possible divergence point, where I figured a character could (at least somewhat) realistically make a different choice which would drastically alter the outcome of the whole story.
(Besides, I've always felt that someone needed to point out that surviving a years-long winter probably isn't even possible for a medieval-esque society. Think about how hard the struggle was for pre-industrial people to even make it through two or three MONTHS of winter...)
u/None [+3] (57 minutes later)
Later, everyone lived forever, because someone figured out how to do that.
ftfy
u/psychothumbs [+7] (4 hours later)
Really, "Later, everyone died" could be the epilogue of every non-transhumanist story.
u/psychothumbs [+3] (4 hours later)
The issue with this is it changes Ned's character halfway through his life. If he's supposed to be all rational, why didn't he take different actions earlier on?
It's also generally tougher to do the 'one character acts much more rationally' concept for GoT, since there are so many plotlines going on at once, most of the story would still be the same. Still, if you were to go for it maybe it would be wise to have the rational character to be one of the younger characters - maybe Jon or Robb or Daenarys.
Or, for a real change, how about rational!Joffrey? Say for whatever reason he's less of an inborn psycho, and maybe forms an attachment to some friendly Maester who tries to pass on some critical thinking. Things progress mostly as in the books until he becomes King, and then go totally off the rails. What does an intelligent and non-evil Joffrey get up to once he's king?
u/ThatMarsGuy [+2] Chaos Legion (9 hours later)
I feel like Littlefinger is already playing a rational Game of Thrones.
u/psychothumbs [+1] (4 hours later)
So let's see, what's the smartest thing for Ned to do at this point? Without him around the Lannisters will probably manage to get Robert killed eventually and Joffrey on the throne, but the Starks and the North won't be involved. Would Stannis and Renly still rise against Joffrey without Ned's actions in GoT?
The situation on the Wall will be much better, since presumably once things start to get serious Ned will raise his banners and help out, giving the defenders twenty times more men than they have in the books, and thus easily defeating any Wildling attack.
u/drageuth2 [+1] (15 hours later)
Personally I've kinda been sloshing an idea around in my head about Tyrian taking over, using his proclivity for inventions that's been way under-utilized (remember that saddle he made Bran like it just wasn't even a thing?) I'm thinking things like Wildfire-powered air balloon/zeppelin bombers and reverse-engineering or even improving valyrian steel and equipping legions of mercenaries with it (bought with money he made selling a few more inventions to the Iron Bank, of course)