7.1 KiB
The Strange World of Classical Physics [EDU]
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Author: u/CalebJohnsn Theoretical Manatician*
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Score: 12
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Created: 2014-11-02T17:20:47
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u/CalebJohnsn [+2] Theoretical Manatician (13 minutes later)
Read this in high school and felt like revisiting it given I am currently taking University Physics had started reading through Yudkowsky's 'Quantum Physics' sequence recently.
The article presents the reader a uniquely imaginative and straightforward sense of why the theory of relativity (or the theory of the constancy of light) came to be and actually makes sense within the context of our real world through various thought experiments.
Hope you guys enjoy. Laters.
u/None [+2] (32 minutes later)
Oh, excellent! Very relevant to the discussion we're having in this thread. Thanks for sharing!
u/firstgunman [+2] (3 days later)
This explains why a world with finite c has to use SR, but I wonder - what would a world with infinite c be like? Since Classical mechanics is a good approximation to SR when v<<<c, which is always the case for infinite c, how would physics in that world break down?
Similarly, if h_bar were zero, how would physics break down?
Edit: apparently, this is supposed to be a good answer for the c -> inf case.
u/CalebJohnsn [+1] Theoretical Manatician (4 days later)
Well if there were no upper velocity value that would mean it would be unnecessary to relate space and time to ensure that the basic concept of force remains a meaningful concepts no mater any particular reference frame, so time dilation and spacial contractions for fast moving bodies would be completely unnecessary. Retaining the interpretation that the "speed" of light was an upper boundary on all speed would "technically" be true, but all the relativistic translations of these processes would be infinitely negligible, and thus not worth considering. But must people already considered that quite fantastic.
The more interesting thing would be that while we know that light acts as a means of propogating information concerning the acceleration of electromagnetic charges, because its wave-like properties are a consequence of the time delay associated with anything propogating at a finite speed if there was no time delay there would be no wave-like properties to speak of. The reason for that? Well the relationship between the speed of a wave to its wavelength and frequency is that the wave's speed equals its wavelength divided by its frequency or the length between the two closest peaks or troughs of the wave divided by the frequency with which those peaks or troughs take place with respect to time.
That implies just an instantaneous transferring of electromagnetic force would take place in the absence of an intermediate body of some kind introducing some kind of time delay while processing each input.
And if that weren't the case that would imply a very non-wave-like transferring of forces through various bodies. For example, if you were to press on a pole of any length the force being propogated by the repulsion of the like-charged electrons composing it would propogate that compressive force (not 'wave') in a way that allowed you to feel the effects of whatever was on the other side of the pole pushing back instantly. But that wouldn't be the only time that happened though. It is ridiculous just how much would be different because of that. That instantaneous transfer of electromagnetic force principle would apply to everything. It may even apply to other forces of nature, although I'd really have to look into it.
It would take me a long time to completely deconstruct and determine just how much you would have to counterbalance those implications to make it less removed from everyone's day to day experience to fully appreciate just how "not like here" that world would be and I'm pretty sure I don't have time for that today. Sounds interesting though.
Anyway, that's all I really had to say. Laters.
u/firstgunman [+1] (4 days later)
I spent some time thinking about my own proposition, and concluded that everything would be invisible, and anything that could 'see' would instantly explode. This mostly stems from the same argument you made regarding wavelength.
An infinitely long wavelength would be permeable to all things, and never scatter. Since photon scattering is the basis of E&M interaction, this means all E&M would be impossible. As a side effect, all things would be invisible.
The other interpretation - that of infinite frequency - implies infinite energy. Anything which can pick up such photon (see it) will get instantly annihilated in an ungodly explosion... or does whatever it is that something which gains inf energy will do.
u/CalebJohnsn [+1] Theoretical Manatician (21 days later)
Wow I've been gone a while. I'm just gonna say that I don't really think that there would be no intermediate values for energy that can be transferred by this "insta-light" we are talking about. Basically, I'm saying that the idea I had doesn't actually seem to follow, which I really ought to have noticed at the time, but ah well.
In addition though, it has made me wonder how much the sky would be filled with light of different "wavelengths' and what not given the way that light propogates might vary. If matter actually took a finite time to "process" or receive and re-emit light and/or the energy associated with this process were lost during the process of absorption and re-emission.
For example, different warpings of light being "slowed down" due to their energy content and the kinds of emissions matter could and couldn't accept, allowing for something along the lines of wavelength specific time dilation of otherwise instantaneously transferred electromagnetic forces. Actually this consequence of basic optics could be used as an energy sink if a "toll" of sorts came into play, keeping the universe in balance and making this whole premise less universe breaking.
Granted, with electromagnetic forces being capable of being transferred instantaneously while other forces maintain a finite speed the instantaneous cancellation of these forces using various machines still seems imminently doable, so I'm thinking tractor beams are a much more practical idea when done right
Still, I'm just not sure about how well I can maintain the absence of privileged frames of reference on a universal scale given the possible direct consequences of Olber's paradox and how it tosses out certain models of the universe containg infinite stars, but there's probably a work around for that, it just adds even more complexity to the whole arrangement.
u/TimTravel [+1] (2 hours later)
Very interesting. I never would have thought of that.