7.8 KiB
Following the Phoenix chapter 35: The Deathly Hallows, Part 2
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Author: u/Saffrin-chan *
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URL: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10636246/35/Following-the-Phoenix
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Score: 14
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Created: 2015-01-10T23:35:45
Post:
Comments:
u/JackStargazer [+6] Primordial Apologist (31 minutes later)
Nicely tying together all of the little hints from the original HPMOR.
Also: Man, fuck Merlin.
u/STL [+9] (3 hours later)
When an ultra-powerful, ultra-knowledgeable wizard who probably designed magic installs a rule that, for reasons unknown to you, prevents the wide dissemination of hypermagic, the rational reaction is not "man, fuck that guy", it's "I wonder what his reasons were".
You're looking at all of the instances where the Interdict is inconvenient to Harry. What you aren't considering is all of the things that the Interdict is preventing, and which Harry would want to be prevented.
u/JackStargazer [+10] Primordial Apologist (4 hours later)
who probably designed magic
Aside from this, I agree, as we have strong evidence that magic significantly predates Merlin, and was probably created in Atlantis, along with the soul.
We also do not have any evidence that Merlin was ultra-knowledgeable in the grand sense, only that he knew rather more than modern people on some subjects, and less than Harry on at least one other.
That the Interdict exists and may have some positive benefits does not mean that it does not also have negatives, nor that it was the best possible choice even from the perspective of Merlin. It seems to be, by itself, responsible for the descentionist turn of the modern magical world. That seems to be rather a large negative, and the fact that the world survived with magic for at least several thousand years before it was created (If we accept modern datings for Merlin and King Arthur as being in the 800's CE, and Atlantis being at the very least more than 1000 BCE) indicates that the 'wide dissemination of hypermagic' was not, at least, an existential risk, while permanent loss of higher magics might be.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (16 hours later)
Do we actually have reason to believe that Atlantis had anything to do with anything? As I recall it was a hypothesis that HPMOR-Harry came up with in order to explain the fact that magic had characteristics of intelligent design, but he tagged it "Atlantis" simply because that was a long-lost magical civilization that he'd recently heard of, not because he had evidence in that direction. It could just as easily have been Hyperboria, or Martians, or even Merlin for all we know.
u/None [+4] (16 hours later)
Dumbledore and McGonnagal make reference to "Atlantis" and its being "torn out of Time".
u/eaglejarl [+2] (17 hours later)
Yes, that's what I meant by "recently heard of". Do we have any reason to believe that Atlantis was more than just another magical civilization? To believe, specifically, that it was the cause of magic?
u/JackStargazer [+1] Primordial Apologist (20 hours later)
Cadmus Peverell also indicates he thinks the soul was made by Atlanteans.
u/kaukamieli [+2] (9 hours later)
You are also looking at magic getting lost all the time. That's something Harry would also want to be prevented. I think he should look at the interdict more closely.
u/Bowbreaker [+1] Solitary Locust (18 hours later)
Its hard to look at it in a way other than looking at a law of nature if you have not a single clue about how or where it was anchored into the world.
u/Empiricist_or_not [+1] Aspiring polite Hegemonizing swarm (6 hours later)
I'm curious why Harry hasn't tried to summon Merlin yet. It seems he'd be the obvious solution to trying to hack death.
u/STL [+3] (7 hours later)
It's clearly explained that to summon someone with the stone, you need to have personally known them. Cadmus was a special case.
u/kaukamieli [+2] (9 hours later)
Might not hurt to try. Atlanteans had powerful magicks, could also be special cases. Though I'd bet Cadmus has tried it. And they could not understand him anyway without some translation magic.
u/None [+1] (14 hours later)
[deleted]
u/eaglejarl [+3] (16 hours later)
The one that interests me: can a summoned spirit use the Stone to summon another spirit? If so, you can Kevin Bacon your way to anyone.
u/JackStargazer [+1] Primordial Apologist (16 hours later)
Doubtful, it appears that the 'summoning action' is to turn the stone over three times, and the 'unsummoning action' is to turn it over once. Trying to summon another would dispel your current spirit in first turn.
u/None [+1] (17 hours later)
[deleted]
u/JackStargazer [+1] Primordial Apologist (17 hours later)
True, but only if we assume the Stone cannot be improved upon. Cadmus Peverell indicated he never found a way to target non-known souls, but he was trying, and I suspect Harry has computational ideas vis a vis that 'soul id' that Cadmus never would have had.
u/Bowbreaker [+1] Solitary Locust (18 hours later)
I assume the stone, similar to the elder wand, works much with intent. You need to intent to summon a specific person for it to work. And if all you know about that person is their name and a bunch of second hand history about them that may not be enough for the stone to discern who you are actually looking for. I'm sure it is not some kind of near AI that compares all souls memories to what fits best with your believes about some historic character and then summons that. And I also don't believe that names become fundamentally bound to the soul or something. What about people who have multiple names? Or none?
u/E-o_o-3 [+1] (a day later)
Is there something canonical I'm missing about why philosopher's stones can be made by Flamel but the Peverells, who made the Hallows, couldn't figure out how to make many more stones? (Or more cloaks, that would work too)
u/heiligeEzel [+1] (a day later)
See chapter 105 of Following the Phoenix!
In short, making a philosopher's stone gives about a 99% chance of dying on the spot. To Flamel it was worth the risk. To Ignotus Peverell, it wasn't.
u/E-o_o-3 [+1] (a day later)
Ah, thanks I didn't know that! But, this is easily circumvented, if you have someone make the Philosopher's stone while using the invisibility cloak to trap their soul! Peverell had the cloak and would have realized that. It would also fulfill the prophecy - just replace the elder wand with Resurrection Stone and that makes three.
The main risk would be that you might have to keep the cloak on for the rest of your life once you "die" in it. If the thing with using the Cloak to glue Dementor's-Kissed-souls back into their bodies works, then I think it's safe to put a higher probability that magical deaths with no apparent physical side effect such as "ran out of mana" or "Avada Kedavra" might only temporarily detach your soul and maybe you can use the Cloak to reattach it. Maybe. (Although, with AK and out-of-mana there is no mention of the body continuing to work, so it might be different from the Kiss)
Edit: Oh cool you're the author! It is an honor, love your story.
Edit 2: Ah, skimming the chapter again, I see the Cloak interferes with the spellwork somehow. Hm...that might still be fine, if the re-attachment works. And maybe you get some sort of edge if you don't wish to use the Stone for yourself, like Flamel, or the canonical Harry with the mirror of Erised.