12 KiB
[RT] "Liar Game", a rational manga about gambling and game theory
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Author: u/scooterboo2 Tinker 3: Embeded Systems*
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Score: 21
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Created: 2015-01-14T04:00:47
Post:
Comments:
u/RolandsVaria [+11] (7 hours later)
I am a fan of this one, and it is pretty smartly written. Clever strategies are definitely its focus and its strong suit. The plot and characters are also interesting, even if the story focuses almost solely on the cerebral aspect at times. One monologue from the story sticks with me even now.
"People SHOULD be doubted. Many people misunderstand this concept. Doubting people is just a part of getting to know them. What many people call ‘trust’ is really just giving up on trying to understand others, and that very act is far worse than doubting. It is actually ‘apathy."
u/scooterboo2 [+8] Tinker 3: Embeded Systems (2 minutes later)
The female protagonist Nao Kanzaki is pretty much the dumbest person I've ever seen. But the male protagonist Shinichi Akiyama is pretty cool.
u/Magodo [+8] Ankh-Morpork City Watch (an hour later)
This is exactly the problem I have with Liar Game. The female protagonist is so annoying and sometimes it feels like the author is substituting Nao with the reader.
While the way Shinichi hacks his way into winning makes it interesting I didn't find the story all that compelling. Gave up by chapter 10.
u/alexanderwales [+6] Time flies like an arrow (2 hours later)
Thanks for the counter-recommendation. I always find those helpful in deciding what to read, but I feel like people don't post them often enough.
u/Traiden04 [+5] (3 hours later)
I will say that she does start learning and applying the "teachings" of Shinichi later in the series. She keeps with her goal of being the kind of person who would always comply in the prisoner's dilemma and tries to be a good example of why it would be in the best interest of everyone to comply too. This does not mean she remains a pushover.
I can't force you to do anything but I would recommend that you read further, it does improve.
u/gommm [+3] (9 hours later)
Her behavior in chapter 18 annoyed me
Now on chapter 59 and I agree with you, she's much better later in the serie.
u/hyenagrins [+3] (22 hours later)
I wish you had stuck a big longer. The female protagonist had her own character development which did not start until the plot progressed quite a bit.
The story does have episodes of down time, some chapters feel like fillers. However, overall quality is pretty good.
On a side note, I have been compiling a list of rationalist manga/anime for a while, hoping to post on this subreddit once it's finished. Liar Game is among them.
u/Rhamni [+2] Aspiring author (11 hours later)
Hey, don't call her dumb or you'll find yourself on the receiving end of a friendship speech.
u/scooterboo2 [+6] Tinker 3: Embeded Systems (17 hours later)
As long as it isn't a heart of the cards speech, I think I'd survive.
u/Noir_Bass [+1] (7 hours later)
I really can't stand Nao sometimes but the manga is still good enough that I've been enjoying it despite it, which I guess says something about it since it's really hard to like a story when you hate one of the two main characters.
u/MadScientist14159 [+1] WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe. (3 days later)
Getting Shinichi on her side was just about the smartest thing Nao did in the entire manga.
u/The_Mad_Duke [+3] House Tremontaine (5 hours later)
Haven't read "Liar Game", but I've enjoyed the first arc of Kaiji, another manga (and anime) about gambling and playing games. Haven't made it past the second arc (which is pretty weak as the game played in it isn't interesting) yet, but the first storyline is fairly clever and very compelling (and works fine as a standalone story).
u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 days later)
The part at the end of round two confused me, where Akiyama shows his vote. I watched the other players This seemed pretty obvious to me, so I wasn't sure why the characters didn't see it.
u/MadScientist14159 [+1] WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe. (2 days later)
But yes, good call.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (2 days later)
Really? Let me check; assume the votes go:
If I've done this wrong, please show me, but I'm pretty sure the argument is solid.
u/MadScientist14159 [+1] WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe. (3 days later)
Oh, sorry. I got the order the wrong way around. Yes, you're right.
u/696e6372656469626c65 [+1] I think, therefore I am pretentious. (6 days later)
Well, they were under a lot of stress at the time, and nose-chain guy (I forget his name) wasn't really all that bright to begin with, so he's not likely to think of that. Fukunaga's main concern is winning, so a draw probably wouldn't occur to him/her; the only reason he/she suggested a draw at all was because he/she was getting shafted by the original deal, and even then, No. 15 was the one who introduced the idea to take both of their "Yes" cards. At that point, they were probably relieved to have any solution at all, which means they weren't thinking too hard about the possibility of exploitation (besides, from their perspective, why would No. 15 deliberately lose by voting "Yes"?). In addition, Fukunaga (who's the more intelligent one of the two and thus more likely to see the flaw) was also affected by perceptual contrast (getting shafted by the deal is clearly worse than holding off until next round), and thus was more likely to accept No. 15's suggestion.
My point is that your idea is valid, yes, but it was very unlikely to be thought of in time by either Fukunaga or nose-chain guy, especially with No. 15 there to actively steer them away from the thought.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (3 days later)
Cute. http://www.mangareader.net/164-10853-1/liar-game/chapter-41.html says that the site has moved over to http://www.liargame.net
The move is a lie!
u/scooterboo2 [+1] Tinker 3: Embeded Systems (3 days later)
I see you're making good progress.
u/Rhamni [+1] Aspiring author (11 hours later)
I've been keeping up with LG and it's good. The cliffhangers are constant and there were one or two places where the author miscalculates people's debt and winnings, but it's far from noticeable. And Yokoya makes a good super jerk.
u/Rouninscholar [+1] (13 hours later)
Is it the author, or the people making the translation?
u/Rhamni [+1] Aspiring author (13 hours later)
Could be the translators, I guess. It was something like non-main character participants going into a game with 1,4 billion yen combined debt and somehow ending up in he black after having been given 1,2 billion of the prize money. So translation error or the author added together 12 people's debts wrong.
These are unpaid, volunteer translators, so it's possible they made a mistake, but they've been at it for a while and numbers should be easier to translate than most things.
u/Rouninscholar [+1] (14 hours later)
Also, by the rules didnt the first guy they called via phone book lie about his association to the group?
u/dhighway61 [+1] (a day later)
Of course he did. It's the Liar Game after all.
u/RolandsVaria [+1] (a day later)
I think the above poster was referring to the rule that if any Liar Game associate lies about anything, it costs them 10 billion yen (or at least I think that's the amount).
In any case, one could perhaps assume that since this deception took place before that rule was placed, it didn't count? Or perhaps the Liar Game Association's lawyer agencies were in fact legally legitimate, but were also made to slant things in their favor. I don't recall if he ever said a straight out lie.
u/Rouninscholar [+1] (a day later)
Yeah. The one thing that bugged me the whole time was that noone had mentioned it. I would be far happier of someone said "hey didn't you lie earlier" "Oh, that was before the game started for you"
Unless they are trying to set up an Enders game reveal where they cancel a debt with that later. That would be mildly slick of them.
u/Drazelic [+1] Dai-Gurren Brigade (13 hours later)
Oh, it's back? I was following Liar Game for a while but then it took a really long break and I forgot about it. Truth be told, some of the later games are designed confusingly enough that I can't really strategize well within them (perhaps also due to information lost in translation?), but even so watching the players hack their way through the game is entertaining enough in its own rights.
u/AugSphere [+1] Dark Lord of Corruption (a day later)
Now would be a good time to start reading it, since it's about to end.
u/Gurkenglas [+1] (a day later)
Page 4: Honest even when it's foolish.
Page 15: Lies to all of her family right after she was thinking about finding someone trustworthy to tell.