18 KiB
[FF][RST] The Waves Arisen [Ch.12]
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Author: u/Wertifloke *
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URL: https://wertifloke.wordpress.com/2015/02/05/the-waves-arisen-chapter-12/
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Score: 25
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Created: 2015-02-06T01:04:07
Post:
Comments:
u/JanusTheDoorman [+10] (5 hours later)
From here on out I'm just going to assume that if a named, canon character is introduced in place of a generic character they will be killed off bluntly, shortly after.
Just so we're on the same page, is nature chakra in the context used here of the same type as nature chakra used by Sennin/Sage Mode, or will that be referred to as sage chakra?
Naruto's obliviousness to Hinata's attraction to him is starting to seem a little forced, though. Given the short life expectancy and the fact that apparently only ninja-ninja pairings are likely to produce "viable" offspring, I'd expect that young ninja would be encouraged to pair up ASAP. Guy is only ~26-27, and Lee at least ~14-15 given that he was ahead of Naruto and at least in canon delayed in his entrance to the academy, so for Guy to be plausibly romantically linked to Lee's mother, pairings would have to be expected in the 13-16 range. Without a cultural taboo against relationships and sex at that age, Naruto being so bookish and nerdy that he analyzes her motives and possible courses of action when she discusses things with him seems a bit much.
u/AugSphere [+8] Dark Lord of Corruption (6 hours later)
Naruto's obliviousness to Hinata's attraction to him is starting to seem a little forced, though.
Did you read/watch canon? This level of density is nothing!
More seriously, starting a romantic relationship right now would be a pretty bad idea anyway, so he may be willingly ignoring the hints. Even if he is not, expecting a nerdy kid, who did not have that many friends, to pick up on this, when he has a bunch of significantly more important issues (like staying alive) occupying his attention, is a bit optimistic.
u/JanusTheDoorman [+9] (7 hours later)
Nerdy kid or not, Naruto should be hitting puberty relatively soon if he hasn't already, and the effect that would be expected to have on his priorities shouldn't be ignored. One recurring criticism that's leveled at HPMOR is that HJPEV simply isn't a normal child, he's mostly an author avatar Fixer Sue with a few instructive character flaws, and the story is saved mostly by the problems he's facing being much harder than canon.
Rational fiction seems to be drawn to young adult/shonen-like stories because they exist in worlds where individual skills and abilities can have an outsized impact on the world, and at least in the case of fan-fictions, canon-established focuses on growth and self development along those lines.
I'm worried that there may be a tendency to pattern off of HPMOR and take it as simply okay for the protagonist to be strangely devoid of any of the usual foibles or downsides of youth because HPMOR did it.
u/AugSphere [+10] Dark Lord of Corruption (8 hours later)
One recurring criticism that's leveled at HPMOR is that HJPEV simply isn't a normal child, he's mostly an author avatar Fixer Sue with a few instructive character flaws.
HPMOR is obviously not the kind of story, where you'd expect to see an average Joe as a protagonist. It's a story about extraordinary people wielding extraordinary influence over the fate of humanity, so this kind of criticism puzzles me. It's like criticising stories about Miyamoto Musashi on the basis that he's simply not a normal adult, but mostly a Swordsman Sue.
I'm worried that there may be a tendency to pattern off of HPMOR and take it as simply okay for the protagonist to be strangely devoid of any of the usual foibles or downsides of youth because HPMOR did it.
Perhaps this is because extraordinarily rational people are expected to keep a handle on their hormones and not allow them to skew priorities to catastrophic degree, when matters of survival are at stake? I'm no expert on child soldier psychology, so I can't say how true to life Naruto's behaviour is, but I did not see anything terribly implausible so far.
u/Transfuturist [+1] Carthago delenda est. (a day later)
His character flaws are not instructive. Rereading HPMoR let me see exactly how flawed and mistaken Harry has been. The first time around, it seems OP because Harry is simply smarter than a majority of the readers and knows it, but retrospectively you can see the flaws that Harry has both overcome and fallen to. He is actually very childish at the start, and he's remained quite childish.
u/scruiser [+10] CYOA (an hour later)
Of course we wouldn't be told if Sai was actually out to kill them. That would be too easy and direct.
Also
Civilian blood was stubborn, though; there was never any shortage. Even with five or ten civilian wives a ninja might still fail to sire a single heir with shinobi blood
Trying to breed more ninja like cattle? More value dissonance!
Also, out of the frying pan and into the fire. At least they have teamwork and friendship right (until the curse seal kicks in)? Or maybe the Rinnegan will be actually exist and Naruto can save everyone... eventually.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (3 hours later)
Sasuke did say that the rinnegan was a real thing.
u/blockbaven [+5] (4 hours later)
The other way around. He specifically says that the rinnegan is just a legend
I don’t even know if it’s real or if it was just something that only Uchiha Madara could do. It’s not just a legend like the rinnegan—this was a real thing he had for a long time
u/kaukamieli [+9] (10 hours later)
Dudes, we actually saw Pein with Rinnegan. I think that cat is out of the bag already.
u/scruiser [+3] CYOA (13 hours later)
They looked at each other, and he could tell they would not abandon their dead master so easily. He had expected as much.
The weight of the rinnegan’s gaze forced them to their knees before they could move against him.
It says that it is a rinnegan, but we don't know for sure that it has all of its canon OP abilities, do we?
u/eaglejarl [+1] (11 hours later)
Ah, right. My mistake, thanks.
u/Jace_MacLeod [+8] (an hour later)
Damn. This story has some of the highest concentration of plot per sentence I've ever seen. Well done.
u/logrusmage [+7] (an hour later)
You've managed to genuinely surprise me in basically every chapter so far. I'm impressed.
u/blockbaven [+6] (4 hours later)
With how hard it apparently is to produce more ninja, the blase nature of how their lives are spent seems pretty surprising
u/Wertifloke [+4] (4 hours later)
Edited to clarify; it's only difficult to produce a ninja from a civilian. Ninja-ninja pairings are fine.
u/Izeinwinter [+5] (12 hours later)
Are the ninja currently going (.. deservedly) extinct ? Because the numbers work out to a population total in utter freefall.
u/xamueljones [+5] My arch-enemy is entropy (15 hours later)
No. It sounds like a simple Mendelian inheritance where one gene is responsible for all of the ninja-chakra abilities which makes sense if such a gene is artificially engineered (there's a couple of chapters in HPMOR about the same idea about a single gene being a marker for magic).
From the comments about ninja-ninja pairings producing ninjas and ninja-civilian pairing producing mostly civilians, it sounds like the ninja gene is a recessive trait. Recessive traits frequently skip multiple generation and act as if they will disappear in a few generations which is why we have people who think blonde and red hair will vanish from the gene pool despite the hair colors being around for centuries. One way to confirm my theory is to check whether or not civilian-civilian pairings has ever produced ninjas. This does occur, because otherwise the Academy would be only training clan children and Sakura Haruno wouldn't be in the Academy at all.
u/Izeinwinter [+3] (16 hours later)
Blonde and red hair doesn't get you killed before reproducing at a 90% rate, however. With this social structure, that gene might as well be a very high fatality genetic disorder. I can see ways in which it might be maintaining prevalence, but they are mostly horrifying.
u/xamueljones [+1] My arch-enemy is entropy (17 hours later)
Can you mention the ways for the gene to maintain prevalence? I love learning about how different genetic traits are spread through a population and how it's possible for deleterious mutations to still spread.
u/Izeinwinter [+7] (17 hours later)
Civilians can't say no. Worse, for ninja with skills in the areas of illusion or mind-control, they can't even want to say no. So ninja can violate people all day long and not even have the people they are hurting cry. In fact, after they rearrange their minds, they will be enthusiastic. Exuse me, I need brain-bleach.
u/capsless [+6] despiser of hpmor (an hour later)
jesus christ.
u/traverseda [+5] With dread but cautious optimism (56 minutes later)
Not being familiar with naruto I feel like I'm missing things. Like the ending of this one seems like it ought to be significant, but it means nothing to me.
Anyone care to summarize the relevant naruto plot?
u/logrusmage [+13] (an hour later)
Gen is presumed to be Orochimaru, one of the previously mentioned Sannin. He is a legendary ninja, incredibly similar to Voldemort (they both have a snake theme going on, a lust for knowledge and immortality, and the whole ability to body snatch thing). In the manga, he stole the body of Gen and used it to found the Village of Sound (though in canon I believe he didn't hold the deception very long). In canon, Orochimaru gives Sasuke the curse mark to tempt him into coming to Sound for a powerup, so that ultimately he can jump his soul into Sasuke's body and finally gain a Sharingan (the others being in Itachi's face, a difficult place to get them from, or previously killed by Itachi).
Orochimaru's goal is to learn lot's of jutsu. Sharingan is very useful for learning jutsu. Orochimaru (in the manga at least) can jump his soul into another persons body. I'm sure you can see the implications.
Note, the fact that they're going too Sound away from Leaf and that Naruto thinks this is their best option is a huge bit of dramatic irony. The audience is, I suspect, supposed to know that Orochimaru/Gen is bad news bears.
u/derefr [+10] (2 hours later)
Given that everyone in this universe seems to be at least a bit more rational (except maybe Lee), I wouldn't be surprised if Orochimaru was actually Naruto's best hope for Fixing Everything. Correctly persuaded, he's a Library of Alexandria of lost jutsu, where any one of them used alongside "nigh-infinite chakra capacity" might produce a foom.
If that was what was on the table, I can imagine Sasuke could be easily convinced to give Orochimaru one of his eyes in trade. (It's not like Orochimaru actually needs both of Sasuke's eyes, let alone his whole body.)
(And that's just Orochimaru on his own. If Naruto manages to "get through to him" in the way he frequently manages with various villains in canon, I could imagine getting all three sannin on the project.)
Orochimaru always seemed to me like someone who was just resorting to "evil" methods for lack of anyone who appreciated his goals, and would cooperate with him. In this much more grey-and-grey morality universe, where Naruto is already a missing-nin, Orochimaru wouldn't be a villainous foil to Naruto's intent; he'd be more like a failed-at-the-same-quest mentor, in the Mazer Rackham sense.
u/scruiser [+7] CYOA (3 hours later)
In this much more grey-and-grey morality universe, where Naruto is already a missing-nin, Orochimaru wouldn't be a villainous foil to Naruto's intent; he'd be more like a failed-at-the-same-quest mentor, in the Mazer Rackham sense.
Or he could simply get a Quirrelmort style upgrade and stay just as evil while getting even smarter.
u/AugSphere [+3] Dark Lord of Corruption (6 hours later)
As long as he's not a cartoonishly evil moron, I'm fine with him being "evil". I'll probably empathise with a rational character pursuing knowledge and immortality even if our values differ significantly.
u/FeepingCreature [+6] GCV Literally The Entire Culture (10 hours later)
except maybe Lee
Lee is demonstrating the power of visibly signalling precommitment to civility.
Note that he survived the tournament.
u/kaukamieli [+3] (13 hours later)
Instead of Sasuke, I'm going to bet he will get his sharingan from Danzo. Naruto knows he has loads of them. I think they are going to form an alliance of some sort. Both would benefit from getting rid of Danzo.
u/derefr [+2] (23 hours later)
I considered this, but presumably, Orochimaru would have queued up lots of nearly-complete jutsu research that only needs one look from the sharingan. It'd be much better to "tech up" with the results of that research before attacking Konoha, rather than after. Maybe the deal would involve Orochimaru killing Danzo and giving one of his sharingans back to Sasuke, though.
u/kaukamieli [+2] (23 hours later)
Well, if oro can promise enough power to beat Itachi, Sasuke is gonna like the deal, maybe even if he had to give his body for oro afterwards. :p One eye is probably ok. BUT apparently oro needs a new body pretty soon...
u/scruiser [+6] CYOA (an hour later)
There is a lot of dramatic irony that exists if you have some basic canon knowledge. I think not knowing it though may make things a more interesting surprise for you. Read on if you prefer the dramatic irony.
Context for the ending of last chapter Pein
For the most recent events: here you go
Oh and the seal that Sasuke has is not good
You can just google each Naruto character's name as they come up and see the general cannon deals. Orochimaru is pretty much an undead evil ninja mad scientist... and he is behind Sound Village too in canon.
u/capsless [+5] despiser of hpmor (an hour later)
i'm not acquianted with canon either, but a cursory glance at the wiki reveals that gen'yumaru is possessed by someone name orochimaru, some kind of snake guy. the "eat you up" is supposed to mean possession, as in canon orochimaru tried to possess sasuke out of gen'yumaru's body.
u/LessRight [+5] (an hour later)
Also Orochimaru displays the ability to pull a full-length sword out of his mouth in the middle of a random fight, as well as the ability to crawl out of his own mouth like a snake shedding its skin.
It's in no way a stretch to assume that, if he wanted to, Orochimaru could literally swallow Sasuke whole. It's just that the question of digestion is further from anything addressed in canon, but if Orochimaru wanted to develop a technique for it, he totally could.
u/AugSphere [+2] Dark Lord of Corruption (9 hours later)
It's in no way a stretch…
Nice! Took me while to spot it.
u/Nevereatcars [+3] The Greatest Is Behind (an hour later)
I like that jinchuuriki are less powerful, Jyuuken is less powerful, ninja in general appear to be less powerful... and the Sharingan is exactly the same.
u/eltegid [+3] (8 hours later)
I don't think it is. In canon, the sharingan is able to see chakra flow, to copy any technique, etc. Also, if it is the three-tomoed sharingan, it is supposed to 'see' a bit into the future/predict the oponent's movements. Here it has only been described as being able to perfectly see details.
Well, Sasuke also copied the motions of writing in the exam, but that could be by the original, 'automatic' ability or just by being able to see detail so well as to be able to copy the movements.
P.S.: Byakugan may be a bit more powerful, it is said that it can see as far as your regular eyes would in an open field, or something like that. That's a significant range increase to the untrained byakugan, isn't it?
u/Transfuturist [+3] Carthago delenda est. (a day later)
Untrained is 50 meters, but after the time skip Hinata has a range of at least 10 kilometers, which is fucking ludicrous.
u/FeepingCreature [+2] GCV Literally The Entire Culture (9 hours later)
I want Naruto to find a historic science textbook or Wikipedia dump really badly.
u/rumblestiltsken [+5] (9 hours later)
His knowledge is so spotty. Like, game theory survived but understanding what temperature is didn't? Even though they can manipulate air and fire directly?
I don't know if it is unrealistic or reasonable for a post apocalypse, or just a required feature of the setting (ie game theory had to survive for anthropic reasons).
u/Izeinwinter [+4] (12 hours later)
.. remnants of game theory survived. If they had the whole shebang, there is no way this world would be so bloodsoaked.
u/FeepingCreature [+2] GCV Literally The Entire Culture (9 hours later)
Well game theory survived - as a clan secret. I wonder if this is set in the same world as Eliezer's Scientific Conspiracy stories, or trying to deconstruct that.
u/abstractwhiz [+2] Friendly Eldritch Abomination (a day later)
I'm now desperate to know what Rational!Orochimaru is like. And more interestingly, if the Hokage was right when he said that the tailed beasts were 'very simple creatures'. Rational!Kyuubi would add some interesting complications to this crazy awesome mix.
u/Anderkent [+2] (a day later)
u/abstractwhiz [+2] Friendly Eldritch Abomination (a day later)
Haha, yes. GRRM's got nothing on Wertifloke.