19 KiB
[RT][MK][D] Time loop
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Author: u/None *
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/2v29sm/rtmkd_time_loop/
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Score: 17
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Created: 2015-02-07T04:34:42
Post:
You're trapped in a month-long time loop (i.e Mother of Learning) in our otherwise ordinary world (i.e your life). It is an infinitely repeating time loop. It repeats after a month has passed, or if you have an untimely death. You can end the time loop by saying, out loud, "I wish to end the time loop." edit: Ending the time loop causes time to not repeat again (like the end of Groundhog's Day).
What do you do to optimize the time loop?
Comments:
u/xamueljones [+13] My arch-enemy is entropy (3 hours later)
Sorry for such a long post. I had a really detailed answer already thought of in my head.
Also this question is more fun to answer if I'm just dumped into a loop without an escape clause. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to resist ending the loop after a few centuries at the most.
First of all I'd assume that someone near me put me in this loop and is paying attention to what I do. So I would maintain regular routine for the first three to five loops. It would be easy to keep from getting bored since I'm a college student and what I study (or use for entertainment) can vary by a significant amount from day to day. I'd also memorize significant events that happen(ed) to the people around me as well as lottery tickets/stock prices in preparation for future loops.
Depending on whether or not I notice anyone else acting differently would lead me to spying on them as a seeming non-looper or concluding that I'm (possibly) alone. If I'm alone, I'd first investigate the mechanism behind the loop before having fun with it.
My first theory is that my body is just moved backwards in time (or to a near-identical parallel universe) and eliminating my younger self. I would check for any changes to my body because aging in the loop is really, really, really, really bad. After that would be checks for any weird physical changes that aren't related to aging like pains, losing energy, infection, color changes, or anything else out of the normal. Extremely through and expensive hospital check overs are done after the waiting phase.
After going over my body, I then check if the second theory where my brain-state is being copied at the end of each loop and overwriting the version from a month ago is true. This theory means that all physical changes to the neurons in my brain such as new memories, instincts/reflexes, and brain DAMAGE will be carried over. I'd test my reflexes and different types of memories (topographic/spatial, episodic, declarative, procedural, semantic, and anything else I can get from a biology textbook on the brain). I would figure out some way to get an MRI scan of my brain over multiple loops to look for physical changes to the brain. I would be very careful about activities that can damage the head, addiction to drugs, or psychological torture. One way to test for this is to inject a harmless chemical to dye parts of the brain and look for the chemical via brain scans in the next loop. It's done all the time in animal experiments with no harm done. This theory implies that my brain will probably degrade into senility, develop cancer, or some other disorder in a few centuries from the aging.
The third theory is that at the start of each loop, I'm living a hyper-realistic dream where a year in dream time is like a second when awake. Then my memories are sent back in time as part of an even longer dream. You can pick up reflexes in dream, since sleep is when the brain consolidates one's memories for permanent long-term storage and muscle memories are also stored in the brain (definitely not the muscle and I really dislike that bad terminology). However, ingrained reflexes will be lost or severely degraded at the start of each loop since it takes time for the brain to re-adapt to the new neural structures being rebuilt over and over. This is the best theory for myself since no physical problems will carry over, but it makes it harder to preserve information (read identity or memories) perfectly. According to information theory, error-free copying is very hard (I suspect impossible once one goes above a certain level of complexity).
These are the first few things I'd test once I'm convinced that I am in a time loop since knowing how it affects me is crucial to knowing what's worth learning or not (as well as knowing in advance any potential problems the loops may cause). If I'm relearning something every loop, then I'd mostly ignore combat training to focus on memorizing information or mental tricks such as cooking, medical knowledge, and so on. But if I'm building on reflexes I trained into instinct, then I'd devote loops to combat, sewing, crafting, archery, riflery, and all of the tedious reflexive work I want to know.
NOW for the meat of the time loops!
I'd spend time learning, just learning about a lot of things. One of the biggest distractions for me is daily life. But without having to worry about regular responsibilities such as getting good grades, money to survive, socializing with friends/family, and other necessities to function daily in society without ruining my future. One potential issue is consuming goods such as movies, comics, games, and other pleasure activities that just waste time. But once I spend a lot of loops entertaining myself with stuff like that, I'd run out of new material and be forced to actually pursue constructive goals where I create instead of consuming. Spending time just learning or practicing is an inevitable state unless I have enemies/problems to deal with.
I would train myself up to talented amateur or journeyman level in as many fields as possible. Mastery level is for areas that I have an extreme interest in or is required for whatever task I wish to accomplish in a particular loop (hacking FBI, dominating the world's economy, public speaking/blackmailing/politicking my way into USA presidency). No one can get 100% completion in life and I really don't want to break my mind trying.
In addition to learning new areas, I would spend time on physical conditioning no matter which theory is true. Even if my body doesn't gain any muscle and I can't improve it in any possible way from loop-to-loop, I'd still work on some strength training. It's possible to train the body to exert more strength if you can ignore the pain. While it's damaging if you start out lifting 200 pounds when you never done any weight-lifting in your life, you can learn to force more strength out of the same pre-loop body with a stronger willpower. Which is too useful to not learn how to do even if it's going to ruin the body for the rest of the loop. Also agility and reflex training should be more mental than physical. I'd have to talk to a body builder, doctor, and professional trainers to actually know what to test for and work on.
Aside from learning and investigating quirks of the time loop and its influence on my body, I'd spend time experimenting and inventing. Since mistakes cost me nothing more than time, I can do things that would bankrupt governments to enable me to discover and advance technology and scientific theories.
Finally I'll try to make myself grow as a person, because as the potentially first transhuman (with immortality via time loop, you are transhuman) I would want to be a good person.....or one who prefers to cooperate, but can crush you like a bug if you are rude. Think Belldandy from Ah! My Goddess with Urd's mischievousness.
In summary, my list of things to do is:
Wait and Watch
Investigate
Learn and Experiment/Invent
Have periodic time loops where I set myself nigh-impossible goals to make myself grow as a person, shock and awe the masses, and to signal other potential time loopers.
Innortal has good ideas and a lot of the magic stuff I probably can replicate with advanced technology after a few thousand loops. Now that I think of it, there's a lot of stuff on anime that I would love to reenact in real-life. Heh, heh, heh, heh....
I honestly can't predict the odds between me going insane, becoming a hyper-competent real-life Mary Sue, breaking down into Cthulu level of wEiR*d, something utterly impossible for present-me to comprehend (yes I can imagine cthulu-like weirdness), or some mixture of the above by the end of the loops if it goes on for a few millennia.
u/None [+5] (14 minutes later)
[removed]
u/None [+2] (17 minutes later)
I'm not sure if that's the most optimal strategy, though I definitely think that's something that should be done, and probably every loop so you can have disposable income with which to do other things.
u/Charlie___ [+5] (an hour later)
Work on my memory. Remembering things is going to be key, may as well start with well-known memory techniques.
Political power - learn the plans of a bunch of important groups and how to exploit knowledge of those plans to cause good things - preferably long-term decreases in existential risk.
Money; if you don't end up a billionaire you're not trying.
Time loop theory. These things seem handy, and if it happened once it can happen again. Look into that.
Meta question - how possible is it to iterate research though the time loops? Probably really difficult. Potential fields to try anyhow: AI, intelligence enhancement, helping groups work together better, identifying possible astronomical threats.
Personal skills: it's probably worth it to become very healthy, charismatic, and gain a fashion sense, among other things.
Overall, the money does seem to be what will have the biggest impact.
u/itisike [+1] Dragon Army (22 hours later)
how possible is it to iterate research though the time loops
Look up what ideas are proposed by scientists that are completely new on the last day of the loop, then suggest those ideas on the first day to the same people. Iterate, with an extremely good memory trained over years.
u/what_deleted_said [+1] (3 months later)
How much science is/can be done in a month?
u/itisike [+1] Dragon Army (3 months later)
It doesn't really matter if you can iterate.
u/scruiser [+4] CYOA (22 minutes later)
As a past thread has shown, a decent number of people on this thread have password codes for timeloops. A couple of loops (or a couple dozen) on each person, and I can hopefully convince them to give me their passwords and gain their help at the beginning of each loop with just a word. I'll also use some of the money from the lottery trick to reward them for their help.
Also, how much muscle memory is preserved from loop to loop? How will regular memory hold up? Fiction takes this stuff for granted, but I am going to test it in detail before I figure out what to do next.
u/None [+3] (29 minutes later)
The loop causes muscle memory and regular memory to be preserved just as well as if you had just went on to the next day after the loop. Additionally, when the loop occurs it has the same effects for memory and cognitive processes as a full night's rest (converts short-term memory to long-term memory, and you awaken at the beginning of the time loop feeling refreshed).
u/ulyssessword [+2] (32 minutes later)
First, find a simple way to get a lot of money in the first few days so that you are free to do as you want, then spend the rest of the month doing long-term research and study.
I'd recommend scratch-and-win lottery tickets for tens of thousands of dollars, but I'm not sure what would be the best thing to research, especially since you can't carry notes across loops.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (12 hours later)
Lotteries don't pay out for four to six weeks. (At least, the first example I found doesn't, and I started with a relatively high prior that others don't either.)
I'm not clear on how quickly you can cash out a stock and actually get liquid cash from it, but I would imagine it's in a period of days. That means that day trading could work, although I believe there are some laws there that would prevent you from getting large amounts of money quickly. The problem with this is that you need money to start the process, and the butterfly effect of your large-scale trading will rapidly invalidate your "future" knowledge.
Another option would be to memorize enough information that you could convince James Randi that you're a precog. The JREF money gives you $10,000 instantly and the other $990,000 within ten days. There will also be check-clearing time on top of that, so you can't collect the money until at least the second half of your loop.
The simplest option, of course, would be crime; if you're smart and careful you can probably manage to not get caught for four weeks. Robbing a jewelry store might be your best bet, as during the day they have relatively low security for the the value. Obviously, you'd need to have one or more well-heeled fence(s) lined up first, since you need to get rid of your stolen goods quickly.
u/ulyssessword [+1] (14 hours later)
Reading through those rules, it looks like winning a dozen $600 prizes (and cashing them out four at a time) would be an effective workaround.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (15 hours later)
Sure. It's just that that is good walking around money, but it's not take-over-the-world money
u/Rhamni [+1] Aspiring author (17 hours later)
Hm. I guess you could spend a few loops trying to find some acceptable high cash victim to rob. It's not nice, but if you can't some more victimless approach to getting rich quick it might have to do for a while. Credit card fraud, perhaps. Again, you might need to experiment a bit before you find a way to make millions at the beginning of a loop.
u/itisike [+1] Dragon Army (22 hours later)
You're missing a 0 in that figure.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (22 hours later)
Fixed, thanks.
u/chaosmosis [+2] and with strange aeons, even death may die (an hour later)
First, I figure out how to live in a relative degree of comfort, so that I can avoid stress while planning.
Second, I begin to work on fixing my psychological issues. Human minds aren't built for eternity, or repetition. I do not want to go insane or become suicidal. I want to be happy and content. I also want to avoid boredom.
Third, I begin making and executing plans for enjoying myself and improving myself and learning. Also, I investigate the time loop itself.
This continues indefinitely or until I learn what caused the time loop, at which time my plans might change. I might eventually decide to end the time loop, but from my current standpoint that seems like it will take a very very long time.
u/philip1201 [+2] (8 hours later)
How does the time loop interact with quantum mechanics? The weather is determined by the results of quantum interactions from as little as a week ago, depending on where you live, and I'm sure there are other chaotic systems that escalate even sooner - like human minds. Even if the world would always do the same quantum things until you show up - if that's even a coherent concept - then your actions might still randomise events every time because you change the world every time you decide to do something different in it.
So the predictability might break down rather quickly after the first few days, in which case over the course of numerous cycles random events like car accidents and perhaps even embolisms and heart attacks become decidedly nontrivial risks, and tasks like predicting the lottery become impossible. This would make many objectives here inadvisable, because after 10^4 repeats there's a decent chance that you'll be dead.
Disregarding that, academically, you can do searches of (non-quantum) search fields for which you can remember a way to break up the search field into the same ordered list of sub-searches which take less than a month to perform, your current position on that list, and the results.
Assuming you're young enough that your brain is flexible, you can also train skills over the course of an arbitrary number of cycles, get the results in that field, and then train the next skill with no harm to forgetting anything but the results.
You should therefore be able to solve the protein folding problem, room temperature superconductivity, probably the Grand Theory of Everything (assuming enough data can be collected on earth, given your eventually perfect knowledge of cosmic rays that hit the earth that month), perhaps technical stuff like AI and airplanes and fusion reactors (though the 'remembering' load of that is kind of big).
AI seems the most important, to me. So the solution is to find a reasonably trustworthy AI research team (nudge nudge, wink wink), and work with them to first become an AI expert, then to make it so you remember better and more important insights each time. I wouldn't expect this to converge before finding the actual answer, so if a solution exists, it would be found.
u/xamueljones [+2] My arch-enemy is entropy (14 hours later)
I'm confused, why would quantum states that get reset at the beginning of each loop eventually kill you? Also why would that matter since you automatically restart the loop when you die?
u/philip1201 [+1] (23 hours later)
I misread, I thought death meant proper death. That makes things easier, though "build an FAI singleton in the first hour which perfectly does what's right" is hard to improve upon.
Quantum states being reset each time escalate into major parts of the macroscopic events of that month being reset each time. Who you come across in the street changes every time, so every time you're cycling through new situations where there is some probability of you getting in a fatal accident which you can't figure out in advance because the probability is determined by quantum-mechanical effects.
u/MoralRelativity [+1] (5 hours later)
Do you age during the time loop?
u/Someone-Else-Else [+1] Anti-Spiral (18 hours later)
In addition to what everyone else said, I'd try to do nothing that could ruin my life irreparably. I don't know why the time ends with that phrase, and I don't know whether there are any other end conditions.
u/Stop_Sign [+1] (a day later)
Eventually mess up, get tortured and confess about the loops, they force me to say the phrase that actually kills me.
u/TimTravel [+1] (4 days later)
My first thought was just to read lots of books. They'll still be there when the loop starts again. Learn things, read things, etc.