26 KiB
[FF][RST] The Waves Arisen [Ch.14]
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Author: u/Wertifloke *
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URL: https://wertifloke.wordpress.com/2015/02/07/the-waves-arisen-chapter-14/
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Score: 23
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Created: 2015-02-08T01:02:56
Post:
Comments:
u/Jace_MacLeod [+20] (50 minutes later)
Sasuke stopped chewing. “Dude… can you really not tell what’s going on?”
“What? Why? What’s going on?” Naruto asked.
“Man… for a smart guy, you sure can be blind sometimes,” he said. “It’s so obvious.”
“What is it? Just tell me.”
“She’s obsessed with revenge.”
Clearly, romantic obliviousness is a ninja trait. There's an alternative theory for the rarity of ninja, right there.
u/JackStargazer [+8] Primordial Apologist (3 hours later)
I actually, physically facepalmed at this line.
u/kaukamieli [+8] (6 hours later)
It's just Sasuke baing obsessed with revenge himself, so he thinks it's natural.
I laughed out loud at this revenge line. I was completely sure Sasuke had it right... But hey, maybe Sasuke is right and we are wrong! Would not be the first time this fic surprises me.
u/Adamantium9001 [+1] United Federation of Planets (18 hours later)
But hey, maybe Sasuke is right
No way. Just...no. I'm sure there will be more surprises, but this is definitely not one of them. She So unless you're suggesting that she's actually not in love--which is an equally ludicrous claim at this point--she's absolutely dying inside right now.
And hasn't it already been established that she just wants nothing to do with her old clan? My reading of her is that her first priority is to live, her second is to stick with Naruto, she's still trying to decide what the third should be, and revenge is maybe vaguely somewhere further down if it's on the list at all. Speaking of which, did her choice to kill Neji in cold blood strike anyone else as being totally out-of-character? I suppose she could've been just so fed up that she felt like she had to strike out somehow, and if we later learn that the experience rattled her enough to make her lose interest in further revenge, I'd be fine with that. Thoughts?
u/kaukamieli [+1] (18 hours later)
Yea, I know Hinata loves him.
She wanted to be approved of her clan before she got booted. Then she killed Neji. I'm not sure how it's been established that she wants nothing to do with the clan? I think she would have loved it if she was taken back, but obviously the situation doesn't allow that now, them being missing-nins and all.
We don't even know if she wanted to actually kill Neji. They never practiced killing anyone with the barriers, or Naruto would have known about it too and practiced them more and do it better with all those clones and all that chakra. She didn't have byakugan on, so she didn't see or hear what happened to Neji.
u/Adamantium9001 [+1] United Federation of Planets (2 days later)
I'm not sure how it's been established that she wants nothing to do with the clan
IIRC, there was a point where she basically said she doesn't care what they think of her, and upon hearing it Naruto remarked (in inner monologue) that the self-confidence book he'd given her was evidently working. I suppose I could be reading too far into that, though.
She didn't have byakugan on
If she'd wanted to avoid killing him, she would've had it on, watching for the point where he yields. Even ignoring that, she would've been able to estimate when the barrier got too small to properly contain a human, and I think it was pretty clearly stated that she crushed him into a solid mass, which would require radius shrinkage significantly beyond that threshold.
u/derefr [+1] (20 hours later)
he says to her face that there's no way he would ever not think she's joking.
In other words, Naruto explicitly just informed her—paraphrasing—"I give a 0% credence to the idea that you could love me. No evidence I encounter can update me away from 0%. Therefore, presuming you continue on the path of providing me hints and clues, and even just attempting to plain-old tell me that you love me, it will never work. If you really wanted to communicate that sort of thing, you'd need to try something more drastic, to make me change my entire model."
This is a really useful thing for her to know! Right now she's moping because he effectively told her that her current strategy is futile. But he just told her why she's been failing all this time—that his model doesn't allow for her evidence to enter it—and so told her exactly what she should be doing: thinking of a new strategy involving forcing him to believe her.
did her choice to kill Neji in cold blood strike anyone else as being totally out-of-character
I think she was making a point about her clan in general. If you take her asking the "is the Gentle Fist style really weak" question as being for the sake of the audience, not so she could reaffirm her belief, then the whole thing is a demonstration that saying (in a very quiet, speak-softly-and-carry-a-big-stick way) that effectively, "I'm not fired; I quit. I can do a better job as not-a-Hyuuga then I ever could as one. They were just holding me back. In fact, they hold you all back. You, the branch house, they hold you back; rise up! You, the village, they keep you down; they're not invulnerable! They might know your secrets, but you could just kill them all, like the Uchiha! Don't feel so damn intimidated! I don't!" Etc.
u/kaukamieli [+2] (22 hours later)
I don't think it was about reaffirming her belief. She just trusts Naruto, and wanted to make sure if he was just trying to make her feel better or if he actually thought the fighting style was stupid.
u/Adamantium9001 [+1] United Federation of Planets (2 days later)
This is a really useful thing for her to know! Right now she's moping because he effectively told her that her current strategy is futile. But he just told her why she's been failing all this time—that his model doesn't allow for her evidence to enter it—and so told her exactly what she should be doing: thinking of a new strategy involving forcing him to believe her.
Oh come on! She didn't just want him to believe her; she was hoping he would also have feelings for her. She's not moping because she's currently stumped as to how to get the message across; she's devastated by how thoroughly unrequited her feelings are!
u/696e6372656469626c65 [+11] I think, therefore I am pretentious. (27 minutes later)
...Well, they're pretty screwed.
EDIT: Also, Sasuke and Naruto talking about Hinata was hilarious.
u/Ilverin [+2] (3 hours later)
I may have missed something, how are they screwed? I would think Jiraiya/Tsunade are going to help Team 7?
u/Transfuturist [+3] Carthago delenda est. (4 hours later)
They're staging a preemptive attack so they don't get squashed by the Sannin "avenging Orochimaru."
u/derefr [+1] (20 hours later)
Remember, as already stated in the fic, you only need to kill what threatens you; something sufficiently below you can be neutralized without damaging it.
They will attack the Sannin; the Sannin won't attack back, they'll just sit on them and tell them why they came. (Which is presumably "you left Konoha; we left Konoha; there were very similar lines of thinking involved here; let's do this thing.")
u/kaukamieli [+1] (22 hours later)
Did they technically "leave Konoha"? In the canon they obviously are considered to be from there, even though they were wandering around. You don't just put a traitor as your hokage. :D
u/scruiser [+10] CYOA (an hour later)
No one died this chapter? That is the first death free chapter in what, like 5 or 6 chapters?
Sasuke manages to be even more oblivious than Naruto. That section was hilarious.
“Well I already told you how stupid that idea is, but I meant you should do something nice for her,” Sasuke said. “Something personal she can appreciate, you know? Like teach her a really deadly assassination technique.”
Wow. This topped off that little section perfectly.
Kabuto is a pro:
Kabuto inquired about their familiarity with medical ninjutsu, while they walked. Naruto didn’t think it would be revealing too much to admit their ignorance, and on hearing his reply Kabuto offered to give the three of them some instruction in the basics, on the way.
He was really doing his best to be useful—Naruto could see why Orochimaru would have liked having him around.
Naruto had planned to ask Kabuto to head back to Sound on his own once they’d arrived, so that the three of them could have some privacy to try out the new techniques, but Hinata’s lessons were going too well to interrupt.
So Kabuto basically is continuously ensuring that they will find him useful. He manages it such that they let him stay with them and he learns all the techniques that they take with them.
It seemed inconceivable that the Sannin would have been sent after a group of rogue chuunin. They must have somehow found out about Orochimaru. They were after him, personally.
You manage to top the dramatic irony from canon knowledge almost every chapter.
u/Jello_Raptor [+4] The Last Tool User (an hour later)
Why exactly was that dramatic irony?
u/scruiser [+5] CYOA (2 hours later)
They've completely screwed up assessing the motivations of various characters in a way that is known to the audience (the part of the audience that knows the canon. I think that meets the definition.
In this case it is funny because they are assuming that the other Sannin most have been allies and thus are out to avenge Orochimaru and in no way have any interest in Naruto. In fact, the other Sannin's are enemies of Orochimaru in canon (and likely in this fic too if they know the type of experiments he does) and Jiraya is personally interested in Naruto.
u/autowikibot [+2] (2 hours later)
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#### Section 6. Dramatic irony of article Irony:
This type of irony is the device of giving the spectator an item of information that at least one of the characters in the narrative is unaware of (at least consciously), thus placing the spectator a step ahead of at least one of the characters. The OED has:
the incongruity created when the (tragic) significance of a character's speech or actions is revealed to the audience but unknown to the character concerned; the literary device so used, orig. in Greek tragedy.
According to Stanton, dramatic irony has three stages—installation, exploitation, and resolution (often also called preparation, suspension, and resolution) —producing dramatic conflict in what one character relies or appears to rely upon, the contrary of which is known by observers (especially the audience; sometimes to other characters within the drama) to be true. In summary, it means that the reader/watcher/listener knows something that one or more of the characters in the piece is not aware of.
For example:
- In City Lights the audience knows that Charlie Chaplin's character is not a millionaire, but the blind flower girl (Virginia Cherrill) believes him to be rich.
- In North by Northwest, the audience knows that Roger Thornhill (Cary Grant) is not Kaplan; Vandamm (James Mason) and his accomplices do not. The audience also knows that Kaplan is a fictitious agent invented by the CIA; Roger (initially) and Vandamm (throughout) do not.
- In Oedipus the King, the audience knows that Oedipus himself is the murderer that he is seeking; Oedipus, Creon and Jocasta do not.
- In Othello, the audience knows that Desdemona has been faithful to Othello, but Othello does not. The audience also knows that Iago is scheming to bring about Othello's downfall, a fact hidden from Othello, Desdemona, Cassio and Roderigo.
- In The Cask of Amontillado, the reader knows that Montresor is planning on murdering Fortunato, while Fortunato believes they are friends.
- In The Truman Show, the viewer is aware that Truman is on a television show, but Truman himself only gradually learns this.
- In Romeo and Juliet, the audience knows that Juliet is already married to Romeo, but her family does not. Also, in the crypt, most of the other characters in the cast think Juliet is dead, but the audience knows she only took a sleeping potion. Romeo is also under the same misapprehension when he kills himself.
Tragic irony is a special category of dramatic irony. In tragic irony, the words and actions of the characters contradict the real situation, which the spectators fully realize. The Oxford English Dictionary has:
the incongruity created when the (tragic) significance of a character's speech or actions is revealed to the audience but unknown to the character concerned, the literary device so used, orig. in Greek tragedy.
Ancient Greek drama was especially characterized by tragic irony because the audiences were so familiar with the legends that most of the plays dramatized. Sophocles' Oedipus the King provides a classic example of tragic irony at its fullest. Colebrook writes:
Tragic irony is exemplified in ancient drama ... The audience watched a drama unfold, already knowing its destined outcome. ... In Sophocles' Oedipus the King, for example, 'we' (the audience) can see what Oedipus is blind to. The man he murders is his father, but he does not know it.
Further, Oedipus vows to find the murderer and curses him for the plague that he has caused, not knowing that the murderer he has cursed and vowed to find is himself. Irony has some of its foundation in the onlooker's perception of paradox that arises from insoluble problems. For example, in the William Shakespeare play Romeo and Juliet, when Romeo finds Juliet in a drugged deathlike sleep, he assumes her to be dead and kills himself. Upon awakening to find her dead lover beside her, Juliet stabs herself with a dagger thus killing herself.
^Interesting: ^Irony ^Is ^a ^Dead ^Scene ^| ^Irony ^punctuation ^| ^Antidote ^for ^Irony ^| ^Post-irony
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u/JanusTheDoorman [+6] (9 minutes later)
[Written Before Reading]:
Yay! This is totally the chapter where Team 7 takeover Sound smoothly and painlessly and reform it into a Rationalist Utopia where no one dies, ever, right?
[Written After Reading]:
Well, no butchery. Surprised that both surviving Sannin are being introduced so quickly. I have to think this is just them having become aware of Naruto and the shenanigans that are going in and around Leaf and coming to support him. At least, that makes sense for Jiraya. Tsunade is less clear. I'm not sure if she was in on Naruto being Minato's son in canon. Gonna be harder to conceal their presence in Sound from Leaf than Team 7's, though, if that's the case. Makes me wonder how exactly the Sannin tracked them to Sound, given that Leaf's dispatch suggests that Leaf doesn't know they're there.
Pein "Nighting" Akatsuki seems a little weird, but if he's being setup as a foil to Naruto, each taking control of Mist/Sound in their own way, I guess it makes sense.
u/kaukamieli [+4] (6 hours later)
My theory is that Kabuto knows Jiraya, as he had his card. Kabuto noticed Naruto has the beast and contacted Jiraya to do some sealwork, telling him Naruto killed oro and has the village now. That's why Jiraya got Tsunade easily with him.
u/eaglejarl [+6] (3 hours later)
What big good-guy canon characters are left at this point?
HokageKakashiGaiNejiSakuraShinoKiba- Naruto
- Hinata
- Sasuke
- Shikamaru
- Chouji
- Rock Lee
- Jiraiya
- Tsunade
- Kurenai
- Tenten
- Gaara
- Temari
- Gaara's brother whose name I don't remember
Anyone else? I know Pein and Akatsuki are alive, I'm looking for the hero types. Did I miss any of the above being dead? This list was done mostly from memory.
u/logrusmage [+5] (3 hours later)
Kankuro.
u/JackStargazer [+3] Primordial Apologist (3 hours later)
Gaara
Actually, with Naruto's Battlefield Psychology, Gaara is a Complete Monster (literal) Blood Knight.
With the crapsackness of this world, it's possible he's actually possessed by his tailed beast already. Perhaps their mental acuity is inversely proportional to their power, explaining why the Nine-Tailes is prone to trickery and dumber than Naruto.
u/xamueljones [+1] My arch-enemy is entropy (19 hours later)
Tsunade's apprentice Shizune, Ino, and anyone else I'm not thinking of are probably supporting characters instead of being part of the main cast.
u/Jello_Raptor [+3] The Last Tool User (an hour later)
[Written before reading]:
Hmm, I have no clue what I'd do in their position. It comes off as a little too trusting for this environment but something like the following is probable:
Naruto: Kabuto, we need to talk.
Kabuto: Ok.
N: What do you want? Other than me not killing you that is.
K:
N:
With some pre-planned side jaunts:
N: You can see why despite fear being a wonderful motivator. I would rather have someone like you on my side because they want to be.
and
N: That technique that I used to kill Orochimaru is a dead man's switch. Do anything that would otherwise kill me and it would automatically activate. Do anything that might kill my teammates and I will activate it. However I don't like to use as it erodes my will to want to keep other people alive. If I use it too much, I will want to literally kill everyone.
N: In that state I will have enough power that you'd need an entire army to stop me. Additionally, I become more intelligent and ruthless in that state. Knowing this makes you a threat to the psychopathic version of me, and as soon as I urn psychopathic I will find you, every Kage, and every administrator of note, and kill them well before anyone notices that I might be a problem. That way the chance of any group raising the army that would be needed to defeat me is radically dropped, and I can proceed to exterminate the human race at leisure.
N: The me of now does not want to do this, but rest assured that I will as soon as that dead man's switch strips me of any semblance of care for the lives of others. It is in your interest to keep me alive, and help me gain power so that others can't kill me. Likewise it is in my interest to give you what you want as there are costs to my use of that power, and there are many instances where the costs of my deference to you will be less than the cost of activation.
I expect this tactic to backfire horribly, but i'm not sure how. A lot depends on Kabuto's goals.
Also, holy crap, rereading that dialogue makes me keenly aware of why I'm not a writer.
[Written as Reading:]
Finally, Nuruto is creating backups, I hope he sends some to Jiraya for training. I'm quite curious how this one differs from the one in canon.
Oh god, Hinata's life is hell. However, I love how what Sasuke says makes perfect sense given his life experiences and a perfectly reasonable case of "extrapolating from a single data point".
Oh hey, the Sannin are here. Wonder what they want. I'd expect that if they run the Sannin could catch up (Even if they couldn't kill Naruto). So my best bet, would be to send susuke and hinata away with a clone, and go to talk to the Sannin.
u/Jello_Raptor [+5] The Last Tool User (an hour later)
Ahh, I thought of some failure modes for my plan:
- Kabuto would immediately realize Naruto is a jincuuriki, and know that there are others capable of resealing him.
- This means that he knows Itachi is after Naruto
- Similarly he'll be on the lookout for the knowledge to reseal a tailed beast, and have a way to defeat Naruto in the near future.
- He does not know about the backup shadow clones, so he will be less wary of trying that too early. Though he may very well suspect it.
- Sasuke is much less powerful than Sasuke + Orochimaru. He could be caught out in a lie easily enough.
u/None [+4] (3 hours later)
Would this story make any sense for someone who's not familiar with canon Naruto?
u/eaglejarl [+3] (3 hours later)
Mostly, I think. Basically everything I know about Naruto is from fanfiction and it's working for me. The one thing that isn't covered is the starting point; it's not much of a spoiler, since it's the start of canon as well, but I'll tag it anyway:
Naruto is the dead-last in the academy, the complete screwup. He fails his final exam, so he can't become a ninja. [At that point, ](#s "Mizuki, one of the teachers at the academy comes to him and says "There's an extra-credit assignment which, if you can do it, will let you graduate. Break into Hokage Tower, steal the Forbidden Scroll and bring it to me at midnight." Turns out that Mizuki is a spy from another village; when Naruto steals the Scroll, Mizuki shows up intending to steal it and kill Naruto. While waiting for Mizuki to show up, Naruto read the Scroll and learned one of the techniques on it: the shadow clone.")
I think everything else important is covered in the text.
u/Wertifloke [+6] (3 hours later)
That should be established in ch1, or did you mean it was unclear?
u/Transfuturist [+3] Carthago delenda est. (4 hours later)
Your frequent updates are dominating the sub's front page. You're awesome. ;o
u/eaglejarl [+3] (11 hours later)
goes back and re-reads
Nope, actually, it's fine. For whatever reason, I remembered it as having skipped that part and just started from the point after it was over. Never mind; nothing to see here, move along.
u/Anderkent [+3] (14 minutes later)
Holy fucking shit !?
u/kaukamieli [+2] (15 hours later)
Waaait, 3 foreign ninja? Who is the third one with Tsunade and Jiraya?
u/xamueljones [+2] My arch-enemy is entropy (17 hours later)
We don't know yet. That's part of the cliffhanger. But I think it's Tsunade's apprentice, Shizune.
As the weakest member of the trio, I bet that Naruto plans to kill her first, which would make Jiraiya and Tsunade to change their minds from helping to murdering Naruto. Let's hope his plan fails and that they are really there to help him.
u/kaukamieli [+1] (17 hours later)
Aaaaah yea I forgot about Shizune... Never mind. :D
edit: I'm not sure they are going to fight at all. They could have an audience with clones, while they would themselves be hiding in the trapped secret underground ninjutsu stash. They also have lots of ninjas in their disposal, so they might not even have to worry much anyway. Just send someone to ask them what they want first, make clones to go hide, and grant an audience with shitloads of guards.