16 KiB
[BST] Rational Persona fic? Warning: Many spoilers.
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Author: u/Someone-Else-Else Anti-Spiral*
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/2vodf5/bst_rational_persona_fic_warning_many_spoilers/
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Score: 8
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Created: 2015-02-12T18:32:41
Post:
So I haven't seen any Persona RatFics, despite this being beautifully set up for rational fics and less Cosmic Horror than main-game SMT. If anyone knows any, tell me.
(Probably not going to actually write this, but brainstorming's fun. Feel free to write it if you want.)
Again, many unmarked spoilers, for all games in the series.
SMT and the Persona series suggest that, at least partially, human thought shapes the Universe, in the same way as Old World of Darkness. At one point, you're told that as long as love exists, the Universe will as well. Gods exist because you believe in them; aspects of the collective unconscious shaped like gods exist because they're tied to that aspect. It's likely that the universe is human-centric, and that there's a every-choice-makes-a-universe-multiverse.
Also keep in mind that in main-game SMT, a computer programmer managed to create a summoning program, because summoning rituals are just repeated actions, and a computer can easily do those. This eventually turns into horror, because giving the means to summon Eldritch Horrors to anyone with a computer is a Bad End. Despite that, science gets a very good rep in this series; these programs end up being the only way to survive, post-apocalypse.
Persona 2 reveals that the entire series takes place because of a bet between Philemon, the avatar of the constructiveness, friendship, and good of humanity, and Nyarlhotep, the avatar of the self-destructiveness and evil of humanity. The rules of the bet are: Nyarlhotep can try to destroy the world, or manipulate other supernatural beings into doing so, and Philemon can empower people with the ability to summon Personas to stop him. Philemon cannot act directly without a cost, but Nyarlhotep can be beaten up by empowered humans (for reference to power levels, Nyarlhotep destroys the universe at one point. Philemon sends your heroes to a different timeline. The heroes then kick Nyarlhotep's ass). The bet ends if humans become enlightened, perfectly good beings.
Prior to the bet, it's implied that Philemon and Nyarlhotep kept each other from doing anything. There's no reason given for why Philemon took the bet.
How do you make Philemon and Nyarly act rationally?
Let's say that Philemon and Nyarly bet their existences on this challenge. If Philemon wins in any universe, Nyarlhotep can never interfere with humanity in any universe ever again, and the negative aspects of the collective unconscious vanish. If Nyarlhotep wins... oh, wait, there's no lose condition for Philemon. So then why did Nyarlhotep take the bet?
If Nyarlhotep interfered with any universe before, Philemon would stop him. So Nyarlhotep now has free reign to make people miserable/dead, when he previously didn't. Given that he's both an immensely powerful dick, and that he's inherently self-destructive, he loved this.
Why is this a good setting for rational fics?
I don't know anything about the first game, so I won't mention that.
The third game is about depression, facing death, acknowledging that you'll die someday, and so on. The fourth game is about how you have to search for the truth no matter what.
(To be continued in comments)
Comments:
u/Timewinders [+7] (an hour later)
I think a Persona 4 fic could work well since it would have a larger audience and the truth theme is the most relevant to a rational fic IMO. Some points to consider:
In the original game the characters don't tell anyone else about the TV world for a variety of reasons including that they don't think anyone would believe them, they didn't know who to trust, and that they are teenagers who are reluctant to talk to adults about their problems. Some of them, Yosuke in particular, just wanted to be heroes. It might have been more rational of them to tell Dojima, though, since he was a detective that they could trust with resources that he could have used to help them. They'd have to demonstrate entering the TV to him and they might not actually take him into the TV world, at least not without telling him ahead of time what to expect from a shadow.
Souji/Yu would be the aspiring rationalist, naturally, since he had the most rational traits in the game, keeping a level head during the scene where they could have gotten the bad ending.
The other characters would have different contributions to solving the mystery. In a rational story some of them like Kanji, Teddie, Yukiko, and Rise would have to have to play a larger role in solving the mystery rather than just being extra muscle or a navigator. In-game, Yosuke was the one who initially drove everyone to try to figure it out and solved some of the early riddles; he's the aspect of rationality that's about willingness to act. Chie was the one who pointed out the simplest, most likely explanation for phenomena that the others overlooked. Naoto was the one who had the training, experience, and talent for detective work in the more mundane parts of the mystery.
Maybe in addition to combat abilities, Personas would make it easier for the user to think in a certain way related to the arcana.
I would expect that some of the more obvious parts of the mystery would be solved faster, like the link between appearing on TV and being the next victim, but the villain would also be more effective in leaving very few traces of their involvement.
u/Someone-Else-Else [+1] Anti-Spiral (2 hours later)
I'm not sure about that; the reason I'm thinking more in terms of P3 is because P4's too easy for a rationalist. You have to make it much tougher for Yu, by changing the background, which means changing P3 enough that the world is visibly different.
u/Timewinders [+3] (3 hours later)
Not necessarily, just focus less on the background and more on the conflict with the villain, who you would make smarter too. Persona 3 can work too but you'd have to make it less about accepting death and focus more on the fighting death aspect of it. Another thing is that I'm not sure how being rational would have helped the characters fight Nyx.
u/Someone-Else-Else [+1] Anti-Spiral (3 hours later)
Well, Mitsuru hides stuff about how Shadows work.
There's the fact that you know Shadows can distort spacetime, which is a very high end ability, and a rational antagonist will want to use that, instead of what actually happened with the antagonists.
The fighting death aspect is actually what I'm talking about - Death isn't the real problem, Erebus is. It's rational, in this sense, to figure out how to get rid of the impulse to die before getting rid of death.
Let's say... Mitsuru's dad lives due to butterflies, realizes that you have to get rid of Erebus to really get of the threat of Nyx, and attempts to use Izanami for wireheading in the sequel.
P3 has a functioning Magitek Robot Girl, with all that implies. Why is she being kept secret? WoG is that all Earthly life is tied to Nyx - therefore, shouldn't AI-type posthumans be the only way to escape death?
Mitsuru know that personas come from the strength of the heart. So why isn't she trying to find a way to give everyone with a heart personas, or figuring out why people have potential?
How about minmaxing the Answer's time loop to figure out as many plans as possible to fight Nyx?
The thing is, there should be lots and lots and lots of butterflies.
u/Timewinders [+3] (4 hours later)
I haven't played The Answer, but is it even possible to eliminate Erebus? You'd have to change the entire human collective unconscious in a way that runs counter to every human's instinct. Even if it was possible using Izanami or something (how anyone would control Izanami in the first place is another question), would it actually be better to modify every human's minds against their will? You could argue that would destroy humanity just as surely as Nyx would. You also run the risk of the story getting hard to follow/appreciate if you include too many elements from multiple games in the series. Most Persona fans haven't played 2, for example. I've only played Innocent Sin myself.
I don't think the AIs would be a solution to the problem. The Kirijo group didn't actually do any of the programming of the AIs' personalities and don't know how they work. According to Persona 4 Arena, the AIs were built with rare artifacts called Plumes of Dusk.
u/Someone-Else-Else [+1] Anti-Spiral (4 hours later)
Ah, okay, haven't played Arena. Still, a rationalist protag would probably try to figure out how Aigis worked/ how to make more, instead of accepting it without question.
Izanami basically is a wireheader, and she comes back every few decades, right? So Takeharu - or Strega, or Ikutsuki - hear about a town with supernatural phenomena, where an incident nearly caused everyone to live blissfully in ignorance, and decides it's much better than dying horribly when Erebus inevitably gets to Nyx,
P4 crew now has to stop the killer and a conspiracy that knows more about Personas than they do. Conspiracy obfuscates the truth further, so it's easier to lose the game.
u/Someone-Else-Else [+1] Anti-Spiral (4 hours later)
And at least one of the protagonist's team sets off to figure out how to get rid of human suffering after the Answer, to destroy Erebus. Elizabeth is also trying to destroy it, but nobody with in-character knowledge would put their hopes on her, since nobody even knows what she is.
u/Timewinders [+1] (5 hours later)
I'm not sure how often Izanami comes back. Did they mention it in the game? For all we know, Persona 4 was the first time she did anything. A plot where Persona 3 antagonists team up with Izanami (I can't see them overpowering her but I can see them convincing her to work with them) to prevent Nyx from killing everyone could work. My main question is whether that's necessary for the plot to be interesting. I think one of the main appeals of Persona 3 and 4, and why they're so popular, is that the stuff with gods and so on isn't really the focus of most of the story, which instead is more about people living relatively mundane, relatable lives. In Persona 4 the characters did most of their investigation in the real world, for example. Of course, you totally can write a fanfic that shifts the tone of the story significantly. HPMOR did just that, after all, and it's very good. If I were writing a Persona story, though, it would mainly be a story of man vs. man, the Investigation Team matching wits with the killer, which forces them to become more rational, with Izanami not getting much attention and issues with Philemon hinted at to occur after the story ends.
u/Someone-Else-Else [+1] Anti-Spiral (7 hours later)
Well, of course, if people discover magic in a ratfic, the tone has to shift to less slice-of-life and more holy-fuck-magic-what-is-this.
I'm not sure whether Izanami coming back is canon or fanon.
And, admittedly, my P3 idea is better than my P4.
u/XxChronOblivionxX [+5] (5 hours later)
Wow, that's interesting. I am in the process of writing a P4 fic in which Naoto was born in place of the protanist, and it is she who moves to Inaba for a year. I was actually considering posting it here after Chapter 3 is posted, since it has the most rationalist-fic qualities so far.
As a protagonist, Naoto Seta is an introvert with a healthy dose of social anxiety. She is predisposed to think logically about things, and is quite talented academically. Since she is terrible at dealing with other people, she prefers solitude, and loves to read and solve puzzles. As you may guess, her reaction to the Midnight Channel and the incorporeal television screen is not to shrug and think "that was weird. Well, I guess I'll go to bed now" as it is in canon. Her discovery of the Midnight Channel is where the story currently is, as soon as I actually get this chapter posted.
u/Someone-Else-Else [+2] Anti-Spiral (22 hours later)
Oooh, looks good.
u/Someone-Else-Else [+2] Anti-Spiral (2 hours later)
Persona 3 R
For the purposes of this story, Philemon is able to "save" any time someone with spiritual power touching his butterfly, and can keep as many saves/ timelines open as he wants. (Yay game mechanics!)
WoG is that Nyx/Death is older than all life on Earth and the deepest part of the collective unconscious, which explains why Philemon doesn't just go to a timeline where she never existed.
Let's assume that both the female protagonist and male protagonist existed when Thanatos was sealed in one of them.
Snip
Philemon observes humanity's invention battling Thanatos, and waits. The robot moves backwards, avoiding a killing blow, and bumping into his butterfly form. He saves the timeline. (r)
At one point, he moves forward into the monster's eyes, allowing the robot to seal Death in the girl. As it dies, it unleashes a curse that kills her brother. He touches the girl and saves. (rA)
In another universe, he distracts the monster by landing on one of its arms. The robot seals Death in the boy, but its curse kills the girl. (rB)
Through countless minor variations, Thanatos kills one of the two children.
He discards all of the timelines in which the robot does not seal Thanatos in the children, closing the others by turning his attention away from them. The abandoned timelines, left to their own devices, are quickly overtaken by darkness, Law, and Chaos.
End Snip
You now have Philemon acting as the player, having his butterfly flap its wings in order to create countless variations of useful universes. However, he can't alter brain chemistry; he can't touch genes; and it turns out, at least for MC and FeMC, that a huge amount of their personality is due to genetics, giving a reason for why MC and FeMC have similar personalities in every derivative universe.
MC is a loner who's trying to munchkin his way to Nyx as quickly as possible, but doesn't quite get how to rely on other people. He tries to minmax his Social Links without necessarily feeling friendship for anyone, only understanding that they feel friendship for him (hello, players!). In a universe where friendship is a force for good, this is a Very Bad Thing. He either sleeps with multiple romantic options (because if the act of making other people get close to you empowers you, then be a friend to as many people as possible) and ends up breaking links too often to recreate them (because he doesn't think broken links are a problem if you can fix them later, and ends up pissing people off even more), or he ends up with one romantic option and doesn't complete all of his social links, meaning he can't summon the Universe in the final battle. We spend a chapter following his many fuck-ups.
Philemon fine-tunes SEES with his timelines.
He then moves on to FeMC, our protagonist. At this point, we start seeing the story from her perspective as well as his. Each chapter ends with a Bad End, at which point the timeline is cancelled by Philemon, and he loads an earlier save.
(To be continued with FeMC's storyline)