15 KiB
[deleted by user]
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Author: u/None *
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URL:
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Score: 29
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Created: 2015-03-10T18:12:23
Post:
[removed]
Comments:
u/AmeteurOpinions [+22] Finally, everyone was working together. (3 hours later)
No Hermione, 0/10
In all seriousness, it's good to be back in Harry's skull. I'll never fathom why EY thinks it's a good idea to hide the hero's most significant thoughts from the audience; that causes anxiety, not interest.
u/JackStargazer [+7] Primordial Apologist (6 minutes later)
Well, it looks like the truth has out afterall.
Edit: On a related note, Called Harry being master of the Elder Wand, but in retrospect that was pretty obviously going to factor in. Hoping he finds the Resurrection Stone and figures out what was up with the Peverell's graves somehow in the next three chapters, but without a timeskip, I'm not hopeful.
u/daydev [+4] (2 hours later)
Not really. Only part of the truth and only to a selected few.
u/None [+5] (3 hours later)
He killed Voldemort. It's not a huge step to assume that Harry killed the rest of the death eaters in much the same fashion. Telling Bones to exorcise the ghost probably confirmed that to her.
u/daydev [+6] (3 hours later)
Well, they still think that Monroe is a hero, and this one is not an obvious deduction. And then there's the end of the world prophecies (this one is much more reasonable to keep quiet, I'll grant him that).
But really, my main issue is not with the extent of this revelation, but with the coverage. The general populace still has nothing, but fairy tales and fake heroes to worship (but Harry still gets all the material prizes from the victory). Especially objectionable with Hermione, whose true achievement of killing off the Dementors (if she really does that) would be totally overshadowed by Harry's fake.
u/2-4601 [+3] (a day later)
What makes this somewhat annoying is that EY quotes P.C. Hodgell in his Twelve Virtues of Rationality:“That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
Granted, Harry isn't perfect and to a large extent the fic is about ideals and reality conflicting, but this seems like a big one.
u/qznc [+1] Chaos Legion (14 hours later)
Maybe Harry wants to keep the option to "revive" Monrirrelmort. If he wants to convert Voldemort to good, he can offer him a nice position in the wizard society. If Monroemort is revealed, then a good Voldemort could never return to society.
u/daydev [+6] (15 hours later)
I'll agree that keeping as much of this as possible secret has pragmatic advantages, no question about that (except maybe a risk of blackmail in the future, but we know this won't happen, because this is the end of the story already). But is it the right thing to do for a hero? For a rationalist hero? Keeping everything secret as much as possible because it's convenient, and you know what's better for everybody anyway? You can't even spin the usual tale about dangerous knowledge in this case. It's just personally inconvenient for Harry and his goals if the true story sees the light.
Edit: It's strange to say that, but Canon!Harry did a better job from my point of view after the graveyard. He sticked to the truth even if it was politically damaging for him.
u/AugSphere [+1] Dark Lord of Corruption (a day later)
If it allows you to save more lives and do more good, you must go ahead and be a lying bastard for political power. This type of reasoning is usually a bad idea in real world for various stupidmonkey-related reasons, but Harry is in a position to actually make a huge difference. This is precisely the kind of situation where deontological ethics leads to a suboptimal outcome for everyone.
u/daydev [+1] (a day later)
First, I thought this story was supposed to be didactic among other things and teach people proper ways of thinking. So why contrive a situation to sorta kinda justify the hero doing a thing that you probably shouldn't do it the real life, and present it as the right thing to do? Seems questionable to me.
Second, Harry has the Line of Merlin, the Stone, Hogwarts, the Order and almost-immortal Hermione at his disposal. He doesn't necessarily need to be a lying bastard to follow through with his "Philosopher's Hospital" plan.
u/AugSphere [+1] Dark Lord of Corruption (a day later)
The problem is that revealing the truth would introduce some significant risk to his plans. Satisfaction of telling the truth is just not worth it. A rationalist hero has to do what he thinks will lead to the best expected outcome, even if this entails sacrificing his personal integrity. One reason this is a bad idea in the real world is that human hardware is treacherous. Systematic reasoning along the lines of "minor evil is worth it, because the good I will achieve with this political power will outweigh it" is especially vulnerable to subversion. At the same time, some ends really do justify the means. There is no easy rule you can use to actually achieve optimal outcomes. In this particular case, I think lying is an obviously right choice.
Personally, I have a great aversion to information warfare (lying, restricting access to information, propoganda, etc.). At the same time, I acknowledge the fact that sometimes pretty much everyone is better off if the truth stays hidden. In these cases I consider the decision to lie/obfuscate a moral one even if it feels evil to me.
u/daydev [+2] (a day later)
From the Watsonian perspective Harry may be reasonably justified, but from the Doylist perspective, I think, it would be much more satisfying and appropriate if Harry tried a cover-up like that and it blew up in his face ten times worse than if he'd just told the truth from the beginning.
u/None [+3] (3 hours later)
I bet the rest will come, to those few. They know they are being partially misled, just not the details.
u/None [+8] (3 hours later)
Next up: Leadership. Harry Potter figures out that the world not having blown up was due to total incompetence in teaching Muggle Studies. Muggle science is ruthlessly suppressed to keep anyone from transfiguring anything that would end the world or everyone capable of magic is forced to take the "I must not destroy the world" unbreakable vow in a sweep of well meaning totalitarianism.
Also Harry now has the tool to cripple or even destroy modern capitalism. The gold standard can be made worthless at any given moment. It's still handy to keep around to have access to carrots and sticks, but the end of money is within sight. When you can transfigure anything physical objects no longer can serve as money. Adoption of the reputation economy to follow.
Death from old age is pretty much over now as a thing for wizards and as has been demonstrated on Hermione, death from anything save for avada kedavra or fiend fyre is now impossible. Death is no longer permanent as long as you have an in-tact brain. The whole needing an in-tact brain thing will probably be solved at some point too.
Other advancements will rapidly follow as Harry gets his PHD's or their equivalent. This will probably happen rather rapidly as he magically bootstraps himself into godhood. It'll just take some sort of tipping point that will cause him to learn things faster. We'll save that for year two.
Welcome to the magical singularity.
u/None [+15] (8 hours later)
Also Harry now has the tool to cripple or even destroy modern capitalism. The gold standard can be made worthless at any given moment. It's still handy to keep around to have access to carrots and sticks, but the end of money is within sight. When you can transfigure anything physical objects no longer can serve as money. Adoption of the reputation economy to follow.
No modern capitalist economy after 1969 ever even followed any kind of gold standard. Not if they weren't blatantly on crazy-stupid pills.
Besides which, any kind of economy based on being able to conjure or copy all mere commodities (as Transfiguration is explicitly noted to be able to do: multiplying food and such) is already an economy where marginal cost = marginal labor input, which is radically different from recognizable capitalism.
u/Arandur [+6] (8 hours later)
Can.... can Harry transfigure a Philosopher's Stone?
u/Someone-Else-Else [+5] Anti-Spiral (8 hours later)
I bet you wish for more wishes, too.
u/Transfuturist [+14] Carthago delenda est. (9 hours later)
If that's not your first wish, check for an idiot ball under your shoe.
u/ajuc [+3] (a day later)
If you have 3 wishes the first should be
man wish
u/Transfuturist [+1] Carthago delenda est. (a day later)
Don't spend a wish on it unless it's necessary. Instead, ask the genie for documentation, being careful to phrase it such that it cannot corrupt your polite request as a wish.
u/ajuc [+2] (a day later)
I don't know what's recognized as a wish. And by using a wish I can phrase it so I get bonuses to understanding. Like:
"I wish to gain unlimited ability to instantly predict how you will interpret and execute any wish I think of".
u/Transfuturist [+1] Carthago delenda est. (2 days later)
You am become genie, destroyer of worlds.
u/kaukamieli [+1] (a day later)
Any genie that could give anything we wish for, would be smart enought to not have that loophole.
u/None [+2] (a day later)
Possibly. I bet you drop moons on people who wish for more wishes, too.
u/Someone-Else-Else [+1] Anti-Spiral (a day later)
Occasionally.
u/None [+1] (a day later)
Must... resist... urge... to Super-Galaxy...
u/Chronophilia [+5] sci-fi ≠ futurology (8 hours later)
Of course, the use of the Philosopher's Stone for trivial purposes like wiping out the world's economy or flying to Jupiter comes at a price.
It can be used 369 times per day, which is way below the world death rate. If we disregard Muggles, then given standard fanon estimates of the world population and death rates of wizards, house-elves, centaurs, and goblins, it could barely keep up. Adding the families of Muggleborns and half-bloods pushes it over the limit.
Every use of the Stone of Permanency comes at the opportunity cost of one sentient life. Plan accordingly.
^(at least until Harry invents Reverse Partial Transfiguration by considering several objects as one.)
u/JackStargazer [+5] Primordial Apologist (20 hours later)
Well, sort of.
It actually should be plenty for wizards, after the first few months.
Think about it for a minute - it restores you to perfect health and youth. So, even with the risk of violent or accidental death, a single person should not need to go through the process more than once every 30 years at least on average.
So, if it can be used 369 times a day, it can be used 134,685 times a year.
That's more than 40 million times in 30 years, which should be plenty to deal with the entire wizarding population even taking into account accidents and violence (which can be reduced by having as an added punishment for violent crime the denial of Stone treatment).
The only real problem is the triage at the beginning, in deciding who gets the first set of treatments. After all wizards have gone through at least once, there will be plenty of usages left not needed for upkeep.
u/ChimpsRFullOfScience [+6] (a day later)
cripple or even destroy modern capitalism. The gold standard can be made worthless at any given moment
You do realize Bretton Woods ended in, like, the early 70's, right?
u/alexanderwales [+8] Time flies like an arrow (4 hours later)
Also Harry now has the tool to cripple or even destroy modern capitalism. The gold standard can be made worthless at any given moment. It's still handy to keep around to have access to carrots and sticks, but the end of money is within sight. When you can transfigure anything physical objects no longer can serve as money. Adoption of the reputation economy to follow.
Nah, they'll just move to the goblin standard - each coin will henceforth be stamped with goblin magic (if they're not already), Gringotts will stop accepting gold for currency (except at market rates, which the Philosopher's Stone will destroy), and everything will continue on mostly as it was before. Because the Stone shouldn't let you counterfeit the magic attached to the coins, the economy is safe to keep on running.
u/qznc [+6] Chaos Legion (14 hours later)
Wizards adopt Bitcoin currency ... hm, Bitcoins are not Time-Turner safe, I guess.
u/None [+0] (4 hours later)
That's putting the cart before the horse. You're talking about counterfeit protection, not value. Coins are valuable because you can use them to purchase stuff. The coins themselves aren't inherently valuable. People need to have a sort of faith in them that they're worth something. Originally coins were made of particular mixes of precious metals. Then they were backed by precious metals. The US moved to a faith based economy. Just throwing coins out there doesn't really mean a lot unless the goblins have something that is universally desired, like gold. People need to buy into the idea that the coins are worth something.
In short, money is valuable because it can be used to purchase many other valuable things. If there is nothing to back the money then those coins won't be worth much.
Also goblins don't do magic. They do superior goblin forging, which is their particular shtick.
u/Bowbreaker [+4] Solitary Locust (4 hours later)
The Dollar seems to manage. And if you want to put it in logical terms just circulate IOU favor notes in coin form, counterfeit protected by goblin magic.
u/rp20 [+1] (7 hours later)
The dollar us backed by the government. It is how you pay your taxes and it is the unit of account that is also a relatively stable store of value.
u/Bowbreaker [+2] Solitary Locust (22 hours later)
And the Galleon will be backed by the Wizengamot-Goblin bank alliance. Or do the denizens of magical Britain pay zero taxes?
u/rp20 [+1] (23 hours later)
Yeah they will be like the treasury but with magical powers.
u/ajuc [+2] (a day later)
I wonder why they assumed immediately that wand going to Harry because Harry beat Voldemort that beat Dumbledore.
Simpler (and more probable) explanation would be Harry beat Dumbledore, and it would be consistent with Harry lying.