21 KiB
[RST][FF] Team Anko, Chapter 3
-
Author: u/eaglejarl *
-
Score: 18
-
Created: 2015-03-14T22:39:12
Post:
Comments:
u/liamash3 [+5] Mizu (53 minutes later)
Nice chapter. You explained the differences of the Shadow Clone technique from canon, as well as begun exploring the various ways each teammate has different abilities and what they can do. Having Shino use his bugs as a mapping tool is quite a smart idea.
EDIT: Can we post comments on the page the chapter's posted on your website?
u/eaglejarl [+2] (an hour later)
EDIT: Can we post comments on the page the chapter's posted on your website?
Yes! Please do.
u/MadScientist14159 [+5] WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe. (4 hours later)
And suddenly Naruto is a walking suicidal holocaust.
This is horrifying.
Even worse, the clones are aware of their eminent deaths.
Fuck, this is nightmare fuel.
Kind of tempted to stop reading and never pick up another of your stories just because of this.
Fuck.
I didn't think I would ever read something darker than I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream, but it turns out that a protagonist that knowingly condemns dozens of copies of himself to a gutwrenchingly short lifespan every single day and doesn't even care is still capable of tripping my internal "nope" sensor.
u/eaglejarl [+5] (4 hours later)
If it helps, he hasn't stopped to think about the implications, and no one (including his clones) has brought it up. It is something I'll be dealing with.
Of course, I do write nightmare fuel occasionally -- I've had several people read "Baby Blues" and come back with "Oh my god, this was horrifying!" Fortunately, that's usually followed by "I loved it!"
u/MadScientist14159 [+2] WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe. (4 hours later)
And come to think of it: What the fuck, Anko?! I thought you were supposed to be looking out for your students emotional wellbeing? Or do you somehow think that this won't massively traumatise Naruto when he finds out? Is warning him about this too much to ask?!
u/eaglejarl [+3] (4 hours later)
For this too, there is a reason.
u/MadScientist14159 [+2] WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe. (4 hours later)
It had better be a damn good one.
This is several orders of magnitude worse than what Hiashi is doing to Hinata.
u/eaglejarl [+4] (5 hours later)
shrug Well, I can't promise it will be something you like.
If it bothers you this much, you might want to stop reading now.
u/actually_just_idiot [+2] (11 hours later)
Seconding a recommendation for Baby Blues. Eye loved it.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (12 hours later)
Seconding a recommendation for Baby Blues. Eye loved it.
u/MadScientist14159 [+1] WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe. (4 hours later)
Well now the clones are murderers, too.
First thing they should do upon popping into existence is scream something to the effect of "NEVER USE THAT JUTSU AGAIN!" then explain in excruciating detail why this version of Kage Bunshin is horrifying. If they don't then they're condemning future generations of shadow clones to the same fate.
u/Nevereatcars [+3] The Greatest Is Behind (23 hours later)
Except he hasn't stopped to think about the implications, so they wouldn't think about the implications either. It should be the SECOND thing they do upon popping into existence.
Or Naruto is a person who is just totally okay with sacrificing himself for the Greater Good (in this case, his own Greater Good), and this is carried by his exact duplicates as well, which... is canon?
u/EDSorow [+5] (8 hours later)
The clones don't seem to mind dying so much, so I'm not sure that this counts as murder. I mean, if I was a shadow clone, I would not mind dying for the original me. In fact, I would urge the original me to keep creating more shadow clones. We would be close enough in memory and personality that it would not feel like death.
u/kaukamieli [+1] (a day later)
I apparently missed something. Why is this worse than the original thing?
-He can make the clones dumber.
-He doesn't learn what the clones learn.
-The clones can take some damage before disappearing. (This is a game breaker in itself.) Just learn some good ranged magic and you have an infinite flesh wall that you don't have to care about hurting.
u/Zephyr1011 [+2] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (a day later)
When he creates an intelligent clone, he is essentially making a life form. When the clone dies a few hours to weeks later, that life has died. In the original version, this could be maybe hand waved as them not truly dying as their memories are preserved, but here an intelligent creature is being created, diverging from the original, and then dying.
u/kaukamieli [+1] (2 days later)
Are you saying that when we can copy your memories on usb stick, you never actually die? I agree it's more of hand waving. I don't see the problem here. Or actually this one is more horrible if the clones feel pain.
The clones never die! They live on in Naruto's heart! :D
u/AugSphere [+4] Dark Lord of Corruption (9 hours later)
I want Anko to learn the lessons of Kakashi from A Teacher's Glory. Who in their right mind would pull a drill sergeant "unite against me, use lethal force" ploy on their own team of assasins? I mean, maybe Orochimaru could afford to do this, but he has a survivability of a cockroach in plot armour and only one student.
Consciously or not, they will learn to treat Anko as an enemy at least a little bit. Hopefully there will be consequences.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (10 hours later)
Who in their right mind would pull a drill sergeant "unite against me, use lethal force" ploy on your own team of assasins?
Not the brightest thing, no. She's got a bit of an overconfidence problem -- in part justified, because she can usually back it up.
u/MadScientist14159 [+3] WIP: Sodium Hypochlorite (Rational Bleach) Eventually. Maybe. (16 hours later)
Orochimaru had 3 students.
When he gave them the sagemode seals all but Anko died from nature chakra poisoning.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (a day later)
I just read that; thanks for the link. I enjoyed the story and I think it's pretty original, but it does require some suspension of disbelief. Kakashi is one of the best jonin in Konoha. He was an ANBU captain when he was...8? I forget exactly. The idea that three fresh graduates could take him down is thin -- he's fought plenty of other jonin, is it actually the case that none of them have ever tried toxic smoke?
He noticed the piles of trash, and he noticed Sasuke lighting them up. Surely he should have realized "I don't know what these are, but my enemies put them here, so they are unlikely to be good for me. I think I'll move the fight away from them and stay away from the piles and their smoke."
u/AugSphere [+1] Dark Lord of Corruption (a day later)
You're quite welcome. And it's definitely hard to accept Kakashi falling for that kind of trap. My point is that it's impossible to predict every strategy someone may try against you, and taking unnecessary risks is stupid. Granted, the team will surely interpret this situation as "don't hold back when sparring" rather then "I'm now your enemy, do your best to kill me when I least expect it", still the risk just does not seem worth the reward here.
I'm more worried about the bias she will introduce into their minds. Sure she talks about helping one's teammates regardless of personal feelings, but, as we well know, human brain does not care what pretty ideas you spout. Training your team to subconsciously consider their team leader an enemy is not a good idea. Any kind of "unite against me" style training should be carried out by someone other than a commanding officer who leads the team on missions.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (a day later)
Any kind of "unite against me" style training should be carried out by someone other than a commanding officer who leads the team on missions.
No argument from me. When I worked out her background I asked her what she would be like as a team lead, and this is what she told me. Based on how she was trained she's actually doing a fairly good job -- Orochimaru is a complete psycho and he messed her up pretty badly.
u/Anderkent [+3] (2 hours later)
you are not allowed to make me look back by dying
Bad, not back.
u/eaglejarl [+2] (2 hours later)
Thanks, fixed.
u/DrunkenQuetzalcoatl [+2] (4 hours later)
"Hate you so much," Naruto mumbled under his breath. After a minute he cocked his head. "Hang on, you said you wouldn't tell us any direct lies, and you said to me 'it was on the spoons'. Were you lying when you said you wouldn't lie to us?" he asked accusingly.
She laughed and bounced to her feet, stretching luxuriously. "Nice catch. Yes, it was on the spoons. So, now that you've figured that out, O Grand High Mission Commander Guy, what's your plan for the day?"
She didn't actually answer the question about directly lying to them. Also she changed the topic straight after while distracting Naruto with stretching and the mocking title. Fits right in with her speech about deception training earlier.
About what happens next my guess would be that the slippers won't work out and that Naruto creates and transforms two clones which will carry his teammates to the city under some pretense.
Also in the section with your advertising the name renders as "Albrecht Lˆfgren" for me.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (4 hours later)
Also in the section with your advertising the name renders as "Albrecht Lˆfgren" for me.
Damn BBCode. I thought I had coded that into my HTML => BBCode converter, but I must have forgotten. Thanks, fixed.
u/TimeLoopedPowerGamer [+1] Utopian Smut Peddler (7 hours later)
Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.
In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing.
Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations.
“The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.”
The move is one of the first significant examples of a social network’s charging for access to the conversations it hosts for the purpose of developing A.I. systems like ChatGPT, OpenAI’s popular program. Those new A.I. systems could one day lead to big businesses, but they aren’t likely to help companies like Reddit very much. In fact, they could be used to create competitors — automated duplicates to Reddit’s conversations.
Reddit is also acting as it prepares for a possible initial public offering on Wall Street this year. The company, which was founded in 2005, makes most of its money through advertising and e-commerce transactions on its platform. Reddit said it was still ironing out the details of what it would charge for A.P.I. access and would announce prices in the coming weeks.
Reddit’s conversation forums have become valuable commodities as large language models, or L.L.M.s, have become an essential part of creating new A.I. technology.
L.L.M.s are essentially sophisticated algorithms developed by companies like Google and OpenAI, which is a close partner of Microsoft. To the algorithms, the Reddit conversations are data, and they are among the vast pool of material being fed into the L.L.M.s. to develop them.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (8 hours later)
It actually was just on the spoons. Apparently that wasn't as clear as I'd thought -- she really won't lie to them with a direct statement, and "It wasn't in the food, it was on the spoons" was intended to be such.
u/TimeLoopedPowerGamer [+1] Utopian Smut Peddler (10 hours later)
Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.
In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing.
Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations.
“The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.”
The move is one of the first significant examples of a social network’s charging for access to the conversations it hosts for the purpose of developing A.I. systems like ChatGPT, OpenAI’s popular program. Those new A.I. systems could one day lead to big businesses, but they aren’t likely to help companies like Reddit very much. In fact, they could be used to create competitors — automated duplicates to Reddit’s conversations.
Reddit is also acting as it prepares for a possible initial public offering on Wall Street this year. The company, which was founded in 2005, makes most of its money through advertising and e-commerce transactions on its platform. Reddit said it was still ironing out the details of what it would charge for A.P.I. access and would announce prices in the coming weeks.
Reddit’s conversation forums have become valuable commodities as large language models, or L.L.M.s, have become an essential part of creating new A.I. technology.
L.L.M.s are essentially sophisticated algorithms developed by companies like Google and OpenAI, which is a close partner of Microsoft. To the algorithms, the Reddit conversations are data, and they are among the vast pool of material being fed into the L.L.M.s. to develop them.
u/actually_just_idiot [+2] (11 hours later)
"I drugged you," she said with a shrug. "Not in the food, of course; it was on the spoons. Paranoia, blondie—learn it, live it, love it!"
Huh, I figured it was in the honey. That way she could avoid it by not eating the honey.
And Naruto, curse your lack of genre-savvy. Look at how helpful Miss "get-your-own-damn-tent" was being.
Apparently not you.
I think this would be better as 'Apparently you won't.'
What happens next? Guess correctly...
Naruto and the rest of the team pose as a group of hunters and trappers and gain entrance to the city.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (a day later)
And Naruto, curse your lack of genre-savvy. Look at how helpful Miss "get-your-own-damn-tent" was being.
I laughed at this. :>
I think this would be better as 'Apparently you won't.'
Thanks, fixed.
u/Gworn [+2] (19 hours later)
I'm missing a plot-hook. We're 26k words into the story, which is a third of a novel already and nothing much has happened yet.
The story is boring. If I had just stumbled on the story on ff.net I'd probably have stopped reading in chapter 3. We spent the whole chapter, over 8k words, in one night camping. We learned a bit more about the characters and the world, but not nearly enough to justify the length.
What was the point of spending over a sixth of this long chapter on how to estimate the probability of being caught? To be that thorough, you had to be trying to teach the audience. The problem with that, is that the thought experiment is about a magical ninja-world about which we don't know nearly enough to know what assumptions are plausible.
The interactions between the characters - which could carry such a long scene absent plot - are not as fun or interesting as a well written canon Team 7 usually is. Shino, Hinata and even your Anko and Naruto just don't seem terribly interesting or engaging.
There is also a lot of repetition in the character interaction. Anko goes back and forth between challenging the genin and praising them constantly. Compare that to other similar stories that do the drill-instructor as a sensei bit. They usually have the jounin be a dick for chapters at a time until the genin are completely exhausted or lose it and only then the teacher goes back to explaining what s/he was doing and praising them for how far they've come. That cycle is done once or twice. In your story, Anko goes back and forth between those two 'modes' all the time.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (a day later)
Thank you for your critique.
u/derefr [+2] (a day later)
To be that thorough, you had to be trying to teach the audience. The problem with that, is that the thought experiment is about a magical ninja-world about which we don't know nearly enough to know what assumptions are plausible.
The thing being taught, there, is the way to estimate things you don't actually have hard facts about. Not the input facts (and whether they're trustworthy or not), but the function they're inputs to and how it preserves the truth-value of its inputs.
In your story, Anko goes back and forth between those two 'modes' all the time.
Have you read an account of what it's like to be in an abusive relationship? This constantly-shifting-back-and-forth-between-abuse-and-positive-reinforcement "tactic" is incredibly effective.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (a day later)
Have you read an account of what it's like to be in an abusive relationship? This constantly-shifting-back-and-forth-between-abuse-and-positive-reinforcement "tactic" is incredibly effective.
Oh dear. I hope it doesn't seem that Anko is being abusive. That wasn't where I was trying to go with it...yes, everyone on the team is screwed up in various ways, but she is honestly trying to help them get better.
u/derefr [+3] (a day later)
I presumed that she was honestly trying to help them get better, but also unconsciously echoing a particular teaching style that Orochimaru would have favored, that would have also benefitted him in other ways (like creating codependent students.) I was excited to see the kids call her on it and have her experience a bit of a Heroic BSOD on how much of Orochimaru's bad parts she had internalized without meaning to.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (a day later)
Okay, good. That's exactly what I was shooting for.
u/daydev [+1] (14 hours later)
Yay, I get a virtual cookie!
I figured, straight-up annexation would be too down-to-earth for a surprising revelation, but it seemed like something a real country would do.
Of course, now I'm almost confident that this is not the actual goal, it's only what the characters think. Otherwise, where's the twist?
u/qznc [+1] Chaos Legion (17 hours later)
I wonder why Waterfall and Sound would even oppose this?
Having Fire between you and your enemy is less work than a buffer zone, you have to occasionally monitor.
They should profit as much as Fire from a trade route to the Republic not going through Lightning.
The only reason would be that Fire is already threatening due to its power and they do not want them to grab any more land.
u/actually_just_idiot [+2] (a day later)
I don't Fire is planning to annex the DMZ. I think they're secretly negotiating with either Waterfall or Sound for one of them to annex the DMZ.
That would make a potential war two against two instead of three against one.