6.2 KiB
[D] Liminal Fantasy and the Stupid Heroine (x-post from /r/writing)
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Author: u/Chronophilia sci-fi ≠ futurology*
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URL: https://blonderj.wordpress.com/2015/08/15/liminal-fantasy-and-the-stupid-heroine/
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Score: 37
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Created: 2015-08-17T00:24:54
Post:
Comments:
u/Chronophilia [+16] sci-fi ≠ futurology (17 minutes later)
The main point of this post might seem obvious to regulars of this sub - that characters with superpowers should apply some common sense to their use and not be limited by the way the plot requires them to be an angsty highschool teenage audience-surrogate.
I think it's interesting that BlondeRJ has felt the frustration of dealing with such idiot characters, and essentially re-derived the rules for writing rational fiction, even though she hasn't been involved in rationality at all. It shows the universality of what we call "Level 1 intelligence", presenting it as an obvious rule of good writing rather than a specific subgenre.
There's also a few good examples of how a rational character can end up not being a munchkin at all, which is something I haven't seen often.
u/None [+13] (48 minutes later)
Yeah, I love this post. It goes from rational characters, to rational worldbuilding, to "Where’s the science, people?" It shows rationalist fiction as a natural extension of rational fiction, and rational fiction as a natural rule for good writing, a progression which has been a little headcanon of mine for a little while now. I'll definitely have to check out this person's writing.
And on that note,
Level 1 intelligence
reminds me: PAGING MODS, why isn't Yudkowsky's Abridged Guide to Intelligent Characters somewhere in the sidebar yet??
u/BlondeRJ [+8] (an hour later)
Thank you very much, CousinClara!
u/BlondeRJ [+4] (an hour later)
Here's another great rational post on ripple effect by a fantasy author. I reference it in the post: http://simmeringmind.com/worldbuilding-the-ripple-effect/
u/Chronophilia [+4] sci-fi ≠ futurology (3 hours later)
Oh hi! I didn't realise you were on Reddit.
u/BlondeRJ [+5] (4 hours later)
Haha. That's perfectly fine. You were very kind in what you had to say. :-)
u/None [+2] (12 hours later)
[deleted]
u/BlondeRJ [+2] (18 hours later)
Fascinating. I haven't read it, but I probably should.
u/PeridexisErrant [+3] put aside fear for courage, and death for life (a day later)
reminds me: PAGING MODS, why isn't Yudkowsky's Abridged Guide to Intelligent Characters[1] somewhere in the sidebar yet??
Excellent question! Mostly because nobody suggested it via modmail, which is the best way to bring stuff to our attention ;) Added.
u/hyenagrins [+6] (a day later)
Death Note does this well.
This is probably nitpicking, but I would say comparatively well. A few of the "rules" of Death Note are made that way only the plot can progress to a certain direction as the author demands it.
In addition, the author of Death Note did not grasp the full ripple effects of his own rules, in that the shinigami eyes are freaking time machines.
Example: You have shinigami eyes, you kidnap a homeless person at 7:00 am. You trade a leveraged ETF and will make a lot of money by the end of the day. At the end of the day after the market is closed, you check if your chosen ETF has gone up in prices, if so, kill your homeless guy at 7:00pm, if not kill him at 8:00pm. Earlier, you used your shinigami eyes to see his remaining life span, it was 12 hours, you bought the ETF. Had his life span been 13 hours, you would've shorted the ETF. Either way, money is not important, you just discovered a way to send information back in time up to a few decades.
(Of course DO NOT MESS WITH TIME clause apply in this setting, as the guy could've just died of a heart attack, or a shinigami could've intervened and killed him unexpectedly)
This is not really a criticism of Death Note, it still is one the most rationalist works in anime/manga (though it does have other flaws). I guess I wrote this to illustrate how seeming boring or unimportant rules could be physics-universe shattering. And it takes a certain quality in the author to recognize when it happens - after all not everyone can think of using a time machine to prove P=NP.
u/Jiro_T [+6] (a day later)
I don't think that works. It's like playing Newcomb's paradox with transparent boxes: the predictor predicts your actions, but your actions are affected by the prediction. Depending on how your actions are affected by the prediction, this may end up equivalent to the halting problem, where the predictor predicts X if and only if it doesn't. Having the prediction always work is literally impossible.
Considering that it's already known that the lifespan shown by shinigami eyes doesn't count early deathscaused by the death note, it's not too big a stretch that it also might not count early deaths due to the use of other shinigami powers, including death that is causally related to using shinigami eyes.
u/OriginalPostSearcher [+5] (54 seconds later)
X-Post referenced from /r/writing by /u/BlondeRJ
Liminal Fantasy and the Stupid Heroine
^^I ^^am ^^a ^^bot ^^made ^^for ^^your ^^convenience ^^(Especially ^^for ^^mobile ^^users).
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u/None [+3] (32 minutes later)
This is neat and useful. Thanks for existing, bot.
u/Salivanth [+2] (2 days later)
Wait, Ella Enchanted was a book before it was a movie?
I have some reading to do.
u/BlondeRJ [+1] (2 days later)
Ella Enchanted the movie was absolutely dreadful. The book was clever, and the first really good fairy tale retelling after Beauty by Robin McKinley. :-)