10 KiB
[META] Why the name change for the subreddit?
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Author: u/xamueljones My arch-enemy is entropy*
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/3hoa1v/meta_why_the_name_change_for_the_subreddit/
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Score: 1
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Created: 2015-08-20T03:25:31
Post:
I just noticed today, after posting two interesting posts, that the name of this subreddit had been changed from Rational to Rational Fiction.
My question is why? I understand that most posts on this subreddit was mainly for posting media related to rational behavior as well as teaching or helping others with creating rational media.
But I always felt that there was an unspoken resolve underneath every post and comment on this subreddit that our thinking is flawed and that we can all be better. Fiction was simply chosen as the main path for self-improvement since communicating ideas is hard and humans learn lessons better when coached in the form of stories. Therefore this subreddit just uses fiction as a tool to point out flaws and ways to improve.
Shouldn't the name of the subreddit reflect our goal rather than the journey we are taking to reach the goal?
Comments:
u/alexanderwales [+18] Time flies like an arrow (an hour later)
This is a subreddit for rational/rationalist fiction, or fiction that would otherwise appeal to people who enjoy that kind of thing, or people wanting to talk about (or produce) rational/rationalist fiction. It is not (and has never been) a subreddit for the discussion of general rationality.
This subreddit was taken over sometime in early December, 2013. Before that, it was completely dead. The sidebar was written at that time; it contained much of the same stuff that it does now. The title and description of the subreddit described it as "Rational Fiction". All the content posted here was rational fiction, or close enough. If you do a Google search restricted by date you can see some of the first entries.
The page title (the thing at the top of the tab/window) has always been "Rationalist Fiction". The "name" (the thing that shows up next to the link back to the front page) was recently changed through CSS, but that doesn't materially affect things. (You can check the earliest entry in the Wayback Machine from the new era.)
I would argue that this subreddit has always been about entertainment rather than promoting the art of human rationality. I agree that there is an undercurrent that humans are flawed and can do better. I don't believe that the goal of this subreddit was ever self-improvement. As one of the first people posting stuff way back in December 2013, I can say that I never thought of what I was writing or linking as self-improving. Nor did I have those goals in mind with my writing.
tl;dr: The name change just clarifies what this subreddit is focused on, rather than making any change to policy or focus.
u/STL [+3] (2 hours later)
While we're talking about the sidebar, there's a typo:
read Yudowsky's guide
It's Yudkowsky.
u/alexanderwales [+4] Time flies like an arrow (2 hours later)
Fixed; I wonder how long that typo has been there.
u/PeridexisErrant [+2] put aside fear for courage, and death for life (10 hours later)
Mea culpa, since earlier this week.
u/Farmerbob1 [+7] Level 1 author (20 minutes later)
This is apparently an extension of the moderation team's desire to restrict the scope of discussion to rational or rationalist fiction, with the exception of Friday Off Topic Threads.
I don't agree with it, but I'm not a moderator.
u/STL [+11] (2 hours later)
I am strongly in favor of this policy - thanks, moderators!
u/blazinghand [+4] Chaos Undivided (4 hours later)
I too favor this policy.
u/Empiricist_or_not [+5] Aspiring polite Hegemonizing swarm (5 hours later)
I generally agree with Farmerbob, but the moderators are making a good decision, because we can all agree an be civil in the realm of reviewing and sharing fiction. Things seem to get spidery and out of hand with more general topics.
u/None [+2] (18 hours later)
Mod here.
I'd be ok with folding /r/LessWrongLounge into /r/rational, since it's practically a dead subreddit and the same people mostly post on both.
But, nobody has actually taken a vote.
u/alexanderwales [+17] Time flies like an arrow (18 hours later)
In my opinion, the steady growth and relative health of /r/rational mostly has to do with its focus on rational fiction. All our most upvoted things are rational fiction. Sort by /r/rational/top and you'll see that it's very nearly entirely fiction; by votes, this is the stuff that people are interested in.
If /r/lesswronglounge is limping or dead, I think trying to fold that same functionality into /r/rational is probably going to be detrimental to the health of /r/rational. That's entirely aside from the philosophical nature of subreddits as having distinct focuses; merging /r/cats and /r/bigcats together wouldn't be smart, even though they have overlapping (but distinct) interests, because it dilutes both and makes it more difficult for users. All that aside, if you want to talk about general rationality, there are places like LessWrong itself and we have the Friday Off-Topic thread if you really want to talk about it with this specific community. I wouldn't even be opposed to having a general rationality thread (Monday being the best place for it, because I've been mulling over adding a third thing to the week's schedule), but I anticipate that we'd get very little discussion and participation there, which is why I haven't done it.
I'm not opposed to having a debate on the matter, or taking a vote, but I'm going to be one of the primary people on the "keep it about rational fiction" side.
u/None [+5] (a day later)
Actually, "General Rationality Monday" sounds like a good thing to set-up.
u/alexanderwales [+1] Time flies like an arrow (a day later)
If you want to write a paragraph or two ("Welcome to General Rationality Monday, ..."), I can put it into the automoderator schedule.
u/None [+1] (a day later)
Awesome. Let me see if I can get to that tonight.
u/Farmerbob1 [+2] Level 1 author (18 hours later)
I tend to agree with keeping the primary focus of /r/rational as rational fiction. I just prefer that it be done organically, rather than by decree. If people come here to talk about rational fiction, great.
IMHO If they come here to talk about other things rational, that's fine too. If people are consistently upvoting fiction more than pure rational discussion, then the /r/rational subreddit is clearly doing exactly what it is intended for. There's nothing to stop us from poking someone who constantly broaches pure rational topics and pointing them at appropriate subreddits or forums for the discussions they are clearly most interested in.
Rational fiction covers so much ground that it's painful for me to see any safe-for-work discussions on rational topics turned away. A discussion I see here tomorrow might find it's way into a chapter next week.
u/Sailor_Vulcan [+4] Champion of Justice and Reason (a day later)
I would reply to that "then they could have that dicussion on the LessWrong lounge subreddit" except that subreddit is mostly dead, like you said. I would then suggest putting the discussion on LessWrong itself, but I'm guessing that they're too stigmatized and have too many coincidental superficial similarities with cults for a lot of people to feel comfortable there.
I think we should keep the main focus on rational fiction, but keep the weekly offtopic threads. You do realize that on reddit, you can have subthreads within subthreads. It might be nice if threads were more organized by subthread topic, but you can always just browse a bit or press ctrl+f and enter (a) keyword(s) to find interesting discussions on the off-topic threads.
That being said, this is still a VERY inconvenient arrangement. Earlier subtopics are going to be seen a lot more. I'm wondering whether it might be a good idea to have two offtopic threads per week rather than just one. Also, is there some way to allow community editing of an OP to include keywords for different topics that are started within a subreddit?
u/None [+3] (a day later)
I would then suggest putting the discussion on LessWrong itself, but I'm guessing that they're too stigmatized and have too many coincidental superficial similarities with cults for a lot of people to feel comfortable there.
Also, they're really anal. Like, peer reviewer-level anal.
u/Farmerbob1 [+2] Level 1 author (a day later)
As long as they aren't USPTO Examiner-level anal, I could probably deal with them. Occasionally. :)
I just had my examiner tell me there was new matter in my specification because I changed wording in an embodiment to specify 'four' instead of 'multiple.' There were other things that were actually rational objections, but that one blew my mind.
u/FuguofAnotherWorld [+1] Roll the Dice on Fate (2 days later)
I would reply to that "then they could have that dicussion on the LessWrong lounge subreddit" except that subreddit is mostly dead, like you said. I would then suggest putting the discussion on LessWrong itself, but I'm guessing that they're too stigmatized and have too many coincidental superficial similarities with cults for a lot of people to feel comfortable there.
Posting there makes me feel like I have to triple check everything I want to say, then there will still be something wrong with it. It has a harsh and aggressive tone, making it an unenjoyable place for a conversation. Which is why I don't post there any more.
High quality of discourse, but at a cost.