10 KiB
[Q][RT/RST][BST] What time period would be best for a rational/rationalist Batman story?
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Author: u/iamtrulygod *
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/3lcgbq/qrtrstbst_what_time_period_would_be_best_for_a/
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Score: 14
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Created: 2015-09-17T20:22:04
Post:
Currently I'm thinking between 1965-1970 or 2025-2045 would be best.
1965-1970: Gang Batman. This story would center around the drug trade, mafia, and the rising US crime wave (maybe with some cold war connections). The technology, science, and worldbuilding will be easier to research, though I understand the culture of the period poorly.
2025-2045: Semi-Cyberpunk Batman. This story would be set in a future where increasing automation, shifting job landscape, and the benefits of cybernetic, genetic, and chemical enhancements have put a large portion of the population out of work, with many of these people turning to crime. The story would focus on social welfare (basic income), corporations, immortality, a bit of neo-noir and the social changes necessitated by transhuman enhancement.
Thoughts? Both on the time period, and rational/ist Batman in general? I think he'll need to attack crime socially, economically, and politically, as well as being a ninja.
Comments:
u/alexanderwales [+20] Time flies like an arrow (17 minutes later)
I have always liked Batman better as a thinking man - an actual detective. Part of the problem with that is that much of detective work involves talking to people, which Batman (who almost exclusively works at night) can't really do too much of. If you set it during the internet era, Batman-as-detective is really more of a hacker than anything else, which I think is a less compelling fit for the character.
As for rational Batman ... I would just give him pathologies, rather than making him a true philanthropist. For example, Batman knows that the only way to cope with the trauma he suffered is to go out and fight crime, so he channels his energy into doing the most good while fulfilling that psychological need (having already had some bad experiences with medication, psychiatrists, etc.). He knows that there are more effective ways to fight crime, but if he did it in more effective, less personal ways, it would destroy him, because it wouldn't feel like he was doing anything and eventually he would stop doing good because there was no psychological reward. There's a fair amount of effective altruist reading to be done on the subject.
I think that's the best way of reconciling the character with rationality, or at least the best I've been able to come up with. Otherwise you risk Batman turning into something that's not at all Batman, it's just a rich guy solving social problems with his money. Batman needs to be a little bit brooding and tortured anyway.
u/Sagebrysh [+7] Rank 7 Pragmatist (4 hours later)
I have always liked Batman better as a thinking man - an actual detective. Part of the problem with that is that much of detective work involves talking to people, which Batman (who almost exclusively works at night) can't really do too much of.
This. Batman as a hardboiled detective would be pretty interesting. Give him some problems to chew on more complex then stopping muggers. I think a lot of the problem with batman is the characters and problems he's tossed up against are just...weird. Its like, either muggings and petty street crime, or insane pyschopaths. I want to see Batman take on a powerful drug cartel trying to put a bullet in his head with a sniper the entire time. Or batman trying to shut down a massive human trafficking complex. Problems that are still huge even with massive resources and a bat costume.
u/None [+7] (6 hours later)
Three identities. Batman, the caped crusader - use for direct assaults, reconnoissance, intimidation. Bruce Wayne, the billionaire - use for socio-political maneuvering, funding, attacking the roots of the gang problem by addressing education and employment. Finally, Bryant Westner, the detective - street-level investigation, police coordination, infiltration.
u/IllusoryIntelligence [+7] (10 hours later)
Surely you mean 'Matches' Malone the low level gangster who knows a lot of people.
u/eaglejarl [+3] (9 hours later)
Or batman trying to shut down a massive human trafficking complex.
I'm pretty sure they've done that story. The Mafia had a big presence in Gotham for a while -- Carmine "The Roman" Falcone was the head of the local branch. IIRC Batman chased both of the organized crime out of the city. As screwed up as Gotham is, the only criminals you actually find there are stupid street-level thugs who are too arrogant to think they'll be caught, and psycho-villains who are too crazy to care.
u/want_to_want [+7] (14 hours later)
As others have said, rational Batman would become an effective altruist instead of beating people up. A more interesting challenge is to invent a universe where Batman's modus operandi makes sense. What kind of situation would require a billionaire to become a high tech ninja, of all things? Even if the city has problems that can only be solved by beating people up, what stops Bruce Wayne from hiring a hundred trained fighters, giving them wearable cameras, and setting them loose?
One possible solution is that Batman's persona is meant to be a lightning rod. Given a large enough population of villains who will terrorize everyone until they find a worthy "hero" to oppose, it might make sense to become that hero yourself. The nightly outings aren't actually intended to stop crime, but to piss off the major villains by randomly attacking their underlings. The anonymity makes sense for obvious reasons, the no-killing gimmick is just another way to reinforce the heroic image, and the high tech gadgets are mostly used to evade capture and call in the cavalry. In the end Batman serves as a kind of high profile honeypot, a role which the police tacitly recognize.
As to your question, I think the original setting of mid-20th century New York should work fine for a fanfic. If you just intend to use the Cold War or cyberpunk as generic decorations, I advise against it. I strongly believe that a work of art must be enriching to the viewer, giving them something awesome that their mind doesn't already contain. Adding more stuff that already feels "cool" to the viewer is missing the point. If your main innovation is going to be about rationality, then just focus on that.
Does that make sense?
u/Darth_Hobbes [+2] Ankh-Morpork Guild of Assassins (2 days later)
Effective Altruism as we know it is small beans to what Batman does in routinely saving the planet/universe with the Justice League. It would be optimal for him to quit fighting small-time Gotham Crime, but an EA Batman is still a superhero or Earth gets conquered.
u/want_to_want [+3] (3 days later)
Fair enough, but I'm not a big fan of Batman saving the universe. All the grand comic book plots have been very silly so far, I think of them as "using galaxies as throwing stars". IMO it's better to keep the scope small, especially in a fanfic. Or you could attempt a non-silly plot on a grand scale, but that's a huge artistic task in its own right, and AFAIK no one's attempted it yet.
u/eaglejarl [+13] (21 minutes later)
Whatever you do needs to be filtered through the lens of Bruce Wayne's insanity. Childhood trauma leading to aberrant adult behavior -- Batman is nuts, he's just channelled it in a useful way.
Becoming Batman isn't an optimal way to reduce crime -- better would be for him to spend the time he would be Batmaning in setting up new police forces, creating jobs, and doing other social- and infrastructure-related work. So, you're going to need a Batman who is obsessive, has a hero / martyr complex, and is maybe a little bit of a psychopath, albeit with a self-chosen moral code. (That's pretty much his canon personality, actually.) Note that Batman canonically thinks of himself as the real person and Bruce Wayne as the mask.
In canon, the Thomas and Martha Wayne Foundation does a lot of economic / political work, although it isn't shown much because job initiatives are less fun than ninja face punching. You might on-screen that more.
It would also be interesting to cover Batman's logistics. How did he get all that stuff into the Batcave without the location getting out? Where does he get those wonderful toys, and how does he hide the money trail? If someone starts getting close to / actually finds out the truth, how does he deal with it?
Postscript: Now that I think about it, if you grant the mental illness complex described above, Batman is a remarkably rational character.
u/DataPacRat [+5] Amateur Immortalist (5 hours later)
If you're straying from DC canon, as you almost certainly are, then you may want to consider basing your Batman on the version of the Wold-Newton universe, which can be read at http://www.pjfarmer.com/secret/marvelous/batman.htm . It's based more on an action-hero level of super-poweredness, which would set your Batman's opportunities for Munchkinry to be somewhat closer to those available to people in the real world, which may be useful from several perspectives.
u/iamtrulygod [+3] (9 hours later)
Indeed. I'm planning to do something more similar to the Christopher Nolan batverse, rather than the DC batverse, as DC munchkining has been done before, and honestly, abusing superpowers doesn't really fit with my conception of batman as a character. It's not what he's about.
u/clawclawbite [+3] (a day later)
The challenge with cyberpunk Batman is surveillance and communication. In the 60s, it is easy to be an urban legend. With modern tech, you have someone posting a picture on a reddit equivalent. Even if he has censorship software, then people post about not being able to post about it. You need an AI to do a coverup, and batman + an AI is a whole different other story.
u/None [+1] (7 hours later)
I don't know about time period, but I'd love a story where Batman is basically the muscle of the operation, working on the street and beating up bad guys, while Alfred directs the whole operation from the sidelines.