40 KiB
[Q] If you could copy yourself, would you
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Author: u/Sagebrysh Rank 7 Pragmatist*
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/3mrde0/q_if_you_could_copy_yourself_would_you/
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Score: 21
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Created: 2015-09-28T22:41:10
Post:
Let's say I have a sci-fi replication machine that creates atomically perfect duplicates of whatever you put inside. Its not a magic mass-energy violation engine, it has to be supplied with raw material. The goal of the post is not to munchkin the machine, so don't worry about that. It won't damage the original either so don't worry about that as well.
Anyway, I have this machine and I offer to let you use it to copy yourself. The copy will have your memories, personality, its identical to you in every way. Would you take me up on my offer?
Let's also add another twist, in the process of making the copy your exact 'state' is saved as data. From this, you could create additional copies of yourself identical to you at the moment of the scan.
How would you use this? You can copy yourself but does that count as an instant shortcut to immortality, or is the copy not really 'you' ? Would you make any army of yourself, create a think tank of yous? What would you do if you had any easy way to make more of you?
Comments:
u/None [+23] (48 minutes later)
[deleted]
u/noggin-scratcher [+3] I am a happy tree (56 minutes later)
For example, if I am willing to copy myself once, behead my copy, and copy my beheaded self an arbitrary number of times, I could provide a lot to organ donations.
I'm finding it hard to locate an argument for why being willing to do this shouldn't logically dictate also being willing to behead your current self for use as an organ donor - if the current version of you is willing to sacrifice some future-selves for their organs, then what's the significant difference between a clone-o-mat future-self and the "regular progression of time" future-self?
I guess there's the distinction between "number of copies of me" going from many to fewer (with the ability to go back to many arbitrarily), versus going from one to none permanently...
u/None [+9] (an hour later)
[deleted]
u/noggin-scratcher [+5] I am a happy tree (an hour later)
The number of people helped depends upon the existence of the machine.
Number of people helped per future-self sacrificed stays constant though. Although it is perhaps also relevant to consider whether those future-selves would have existed at all if not for the possibility of harvesting their organs.
Ah, I also just realised the procedure suggested was [clone, behead, clone the beheaded copy n times]... so there's only one person that ever actually dies, in exchange for an inexhaustible supply of headless organ donors. I was thinking of it as [clone, behead]*n, which would make each set of organs a separate individual who just got beheaded.
u/Anderkent [+5] (an hour later)
Number of people helped per future-self sacrificed stays constant though. Although it is perhaps also relevant to consider whether those future-selves would have existed at all if not for the possibility of harvesting their organs.
I don't think 'number of future selves' is the only thing to consider. Another is: 'optimality of future world state'. It's reasonable to believe that a single 'me' (with the ability to create more clones if necessary) has similar world-optimizing-towards-my-goals power as multiple 'me's (exactly because it can always clone to the N if advantageous). Zero 'me's is at a clear disadvantage.
u/None [+1] (an hour later)
[deleted]
u/Murska1FIN [+5] (13 hours later)
With such a machine, one could pretty easily duplicate already donated organs indefinitely, so there should be no need to sacrifice actual people anyway.
u/kaukamieli [+1] (a day later)
I guess there's the distinction between "number of copies of me" going from many to fewer (with the ability to go back to many arbitrarily), versus going from one to none permanently...
Sure, but is there a big difference between killing lots of clones for organs vs. killing los of other people? You are killing people.
u/noggin-scratcher [+1] I am a happy tree (a day later)
Killing people by refusing to manufacture the clones? Just to be clear... are we both talking about making live clones (with the heads on), then carving them up for organs?
Maybe I'm a bad consequentialist, but something unnerves me about any position that denies the natural right of a person over the contents of their own chest cavity, not to mention their right to not be killed for that contents.
Feels like that's one of those things that it's important to maintain, even in cases where the organs could be saving multiple other lives. Like that's one of the things where "I shut up and multiplied and this small evil is for the greater good" doesn't justify a course of action, because that reliably leads to "the bad place" even when we think we've been careful.
u/Bowbreaker [+2] Solitary Locust (a day later)
If the clone is unconscious at creation and thus has no experience that would be lost, nor suffer any pain otherwise. It essentially lives on through you just like you would live on through the guy who comes out at the other side when you step through a teleporter. Or to put it differently, if the clone has never been conscious between creation and death this could be considered no worse than an abortion. After all the clone only ever had the potential to become a distinct person instead of just another instance of you.
u/Transfuturist [+1] Carthago delenda est. (a day later)
Or to put it differently, if the clone has never been conscious between creation and death this could be considered no worse than an abortion.
That's an implication of unconsciousness-as-discontinuity that I've never heard before.
u/Bowbreaker [+1] Solitary Locust (a day later)
Isn't that the whole argument about how teleportation through deconstruction/reconstruction is no more like dying than going to sleep is? If that is true then my argument logically follows, no?
Not to mention that babies in their last trimester could be considered as conscious as babies right after birth. And yet I'm pro-choice.
All in all this is just me being consistent. But if you see a flaw in my reasoning then please point it out. It is always good to change ones mind when one is wrong.
u/Transfuturist [+1] Carthago delenda est. (a day later)
I wasn't saying anything except the sentence I wrote. You appear to think otherwise. Why?
u/Bowbreaker [+1] Solitary Locust (2 days later)
Yep. I somehow misread your post. I ended up thinking that the idea of unconsciousness-as-discontinuity in this context seemed strange to you.
Were you actually saying that you never thought of unconsciousness-as-discontinuity leading to this conclusion but otherwise agree?
u/Transfuturist [+1] Carthago delenda est. (2 days later)
Indeed.
falls asleep from lack of conflict
u/None [+27] (41 minutes later)
If you could copy yourself, would you
Yes.
The copy will have your memories, personality, its identical to you in every way. Would you take me up on my offer?
Yes.
In the process of making the copy your exact 'state' is saved as data. From this, you could create additional copies of yourself identical to you at the moment of the scan.
Yes.
How would you use this?
Make as many data copies of everyone as I can.
You can copy yourself but does that count as an instant shortcut to immortality, or is the copy not really 'you' ?
Instant shortcut to immortality.
Would you make any army of yourself, create a think tank of yous?
No need for an army, but I could work several jobs and cooperate with myself to pool resources and cut my cost of living. No point in a think tank, as you want diversity of thought for that which copies of me will lack.
What would you do if you had any easy way to make more of you?
Live forever.
u/puesyomero [+6] The Culture (2 hours later)
seconded
u/Transfuturist [+2] Carthago delenda est. (4 hours later)
Ah, yes. The repro-hazard. Tagged as 'Literal Cancer.' :D
I agree wholeheartedly.
u/Murska1FIN [+2] (13 hours later)
I would imagine there to be a need for some prudence with the 'make as many copies of everyone as you can' thing. There's only so many people we can provide for at our current level of technological development.
u/None [+1] (14 hours later)
some prudence with ... as you can
only so many people we can
I believe your objection contains the terms of its own solution.
u/Empiricist_or_not [+1] Aspiring polite Hegemonizing swarm (3 hours later)
thirded
u/LeonCross [+8] (an hour later)
One of me isn't a productive member of society. I'd be a dick to make clones, so no. Lol.
u/FuguofAnotherWorld [+2] Roll the Dice on Fate (14 hours later)
Yeah, this is my problem as well. I would still make a copy, because two of me working together might be more capable of solving my problems, but I would be a dick to make more than that until I had solved them.
u/Transfuturist [+2] Carthago delenda est. (a day later)
Two of me working together might help solve my problems, but that's only one person's problems. I don't know that with two people I'd be able to solve two sets of my problems.
u/Jiro_T [+6] (3 hours later)
How will your copy get his Undead Tax Exemption? Your copy isn't going to be able to get a job unless it's under the table, is going to have trouble getting health care (especially if you need medications--no way to buy two copies of the prescription) and you're probably committing several kinds of fraud by having your copy even do things he can get away with, like using your credit card, or not filing a tax return.
u/Dreamliss [+2] (16 hours later)
I was thinking about this earlier today. Assuming you go the route of not telling anyone that your clones are clones (you hide the fact and pretend you're still one person): Three clones get two or three shift jobs. Day shift, Afternoon shift, Night shift. If three, one or more has to be less than 8 hours. Basically just make certain you're never officially in two places at once. Might want to give six hours in between all the time, for "sleep". Additional clones can work online, make things, write, program, whatever skills you have or they develop. End result, "you" make a lot more money. As to the health care... yeah, that's going to suck. Maybe make as many clones of yourself as you're ever going to want, ditch / destroy / hide the machine, and go public? Your clones get their own identity then.
I think I'd make 3-5 of me. Some would work, some would support at home.
u/nicholaslaux [+3] (20 hours later)
This only works so long as you're at the age or position in life where you're okay working shift jobs. I'm currently a salaried software developer, I could never go back to working at Staples or Amazon, regardless of the money.
u/Jiro_T [+1] (21 hours later)
It would show up on your tax returns, although it's possible nobody would notice.
u/LordSwedish [+4] Q Continuum (39 minutes later)
Yes. Worst case scenario it means that the person I am at the point of the copying will be immortal so why wouldn't I? Even if the me that's older will die I don't see a reason for why this version can't be immortal as there isn't really a drawback.
It would make things a bit harder having two me's but it's not insurmountable and I think we would work well together.
u/narfanator [+3] (an hour later)
I think most of us answer "yes" to the first few questions, so let's skip to the interesting part: what do you do with your copies?
Step one is making sure I actually get along with myself. If I don't, it's time to try to "fix" myself so that that is true. Can't act like a hivemind if you can't work with yourself, and you're probably not someone you want to be, either.
Step two is to start finding branch points. New job is a solid one there, and probably the leader: it's not like two of me could show up to the same desk. Even if it's a duplicate of the job I'm already doing - well, "Job" is more "Thing you do most of your day most days".
Branch points have to have enough divergence that we're not stepping on each other's toes.
I'm mostly going to stop this track here, except to say there's two other uses I'd specifically go after:
- Getting this machine into the hands of a few specific other people who I want there to literally be more of in the world.
- Need to work out a Merge method, so you can do Fork and Merge. That blows open the accessibility and value of branch points.
u/JackStargazer [+1] Primordial Apologist (2 days later)
Step one is making sure I actually get along with myself. If I don't, it's time to try to "fix" myself so that that is true. Can't act like a hivemind if you can't work with yourself, and you're probably not someone you want to be, either.
I've solved this issue by precommitting to work with any identical copies of myself and precommitting with very small reservations to working with future or alternate versions of myself.
u/Arandur [+3] (an hour later)
Oh, heck yes. For hedonistic purposes alone, even.
Also for the benefit of mankind, something something...
u/LiteralHeadCannon [+3] (an hour later)
Yes, but I'd win the Randi prize pretty fast.
u/Anderkent [+3] (2 hours later)
This doesn't seem like a shortcut to immortality to me; at best it's a forward time machine + cloner.
Consider: you save the state of me right now. If you wake that state in 10 years, it's as if it was time jumped forward by 10 years. If I age 10 years normally, then take another state, that new state has physical capabilities of 10 year older me; eventually me-prime will die of old age, and all of his most recent clones will be almost-dead too.
Still, that's somewhat valuable. By waking a new me every 10 years I get a 'family member' with values close to mine, with whom I can talk about my recent experiences and hopefully he'll do more than the current I could achieve. In that way it's very like having children, except without the exhausting/boring/expensive/blahblahblah raising children bit. (but also without all the positive sides of raising children, which i'm sure exist; liike [overcoming adversity with a partner? there should be a {probably german} word for it] etc. No children here, can't really know)
But yeah I'd probably copy myself a couple times now, and then wake another couple copies every decade or two. Obviously would depend on current events.
An army of me would probably not do much better than just a couple me's.
u/Bowbreaker [+1] Solitary Locust (a day later)
Would you consider getting amnesia and irrevocably forgetting the last 10 years as equivalent to death?
u/literal-hitler [+3] (2 hours later)
Assuming I would be allowed multiple copies, I would probably have a primary me whose task it was to further my education and learn things. That one would be a primary base for possible future clones. One whose job it was to be the optimal me. I'd probably need admin too, to coordinate various things so I didn't try do the same thing five times at once.
Assuming I wasn't supposed to let everyone know I had clones, I would try and get a night shift job. I'd also try and find a decent way to make money under the table. I'd try and find work that I could alternate mes without raising suspicion (imagine if your coworker never remembered your conversations from yesterday) to increase overall leisure/personal time per me.
With that set up, I could probably support a lot of mes. Buying food in is even cheaper when everyone likes the same food, buying/renting is usually cheaper per room with larger places, I could easily double up by simply sleeping in shifts. I could probably even double up again on bedrooms, since I wouldn't need much space without having to deal with all my stuff, which could be easily centralized. I'd probably also turn some of the common space into more sleeping space, the main downside is I'd have to balance that with project space, unless I had a shop.
I could buy some land in the middle of nowhere and have a bunch of me live kind of off the grid... with high speed internet. I've always kind of wanted to, and it would be much easier with money still coming in, and an outside source of help/supplies.
TL;DR I'd work with myself to minimize work and optimize play.
u/Dreamliss [+3] (16 hours later)
You've basically described a frequent fantasy of mine. Can someone make this into a rational fiction to read?
u/Khaos1125 [+3] (4 hours later)
So yes, I'm going to copy myself.
Then I'm going to start testing ways to get me to be more productive/accomplish my goals more effectively.
The biggest long-term effectiveness multipliers would probably come from creating habits for exercise, meditation, and effective studying.
Starting with exercise then, I know I need to get more exercise, but convincing myself to exercise is hard. So I'd take what I already know, and devise 5-10 different 'programs' based on various approaches to convincing myself to exercise, and track the total amount of exercise done by each copy.
Khaos1 uses method #1.
Khaos2 uses method #2.
Khaos3 uses method #3.
Khaos4 uses method #4.
Khaos5 uses method #5.
Track which of these methods works better for a month or so, copy 5 more versions of the Khaos version that's best instilled exercise as a habit, and then change the focus to meditation. After a month, gauge which of the now 10 of me's have the best combination of exercise + meditation habits, copy another 10 of them, and then repeat this for instilling studying habits. Then repeat this for sleep.
So now that we've tested and iterated towards a more 'ideal' me, what to do next?
Drug testing. Make 2 copies of me, do a double blind test with modafinil, and test them with various cognitive procedures to see in what cases it's beneficial, and in what cases it has drawbacks.
Ditto for all the other popular nootropics.
Decision theory testing. Make 24 copies of me, break them into 6 groups. Give 3 groups no instruction, a difficult cooperative board game, and have them play 10 times, recording their win %. Tell the other 3 groups to play the first game, but then use methods inspired by Phillip Tetlocks Superforecasting classes to see if the methods used in the superforecasting classes can improve the ability of groups to optimize for outcomes.
Repeat this study design for ideas found in 'Psychology of Intelligence Analysis', 'Expert Political Judgement', and 'the Four Disciplines of Execution'.
There will definitely be group reading sessions, where large groups of us choose random topics we're interested in, start tracking down information on those topics, and when we run into interesting or actionable information, we present it to the rest of us.
When most of the initial bout of 'sate my curiosity' things have been tried, tested, and evaluated, I move onto doing things that actually fulfill my long term goals. I create 'think tanks' dedicated to the promotion of a number of ideas.
A) Argument Mapping. In my mind, this is a no-brainer way of improving the critical thinking skills of anyone who's exposed to it for a sufficient amount of time. With tens, or even hundreds, of me working on the problem, I'm convinced I can eventually force it into public school curriculums. I'll have one wing focused on convincing republicans it's a good idea. A separate wing focused on convincing democrats it's a good idea. We'll have people start studying and practicing journalism, with the goal of inserting people in major online publications and then relentlessly using the tool in those publications to ensure the public gets used to seeing them, understanding them, and considering them useful.
B) Prediction markets. These need to be a real thing that's used everywhere. So I'll have a think tank full of like-minded me's dedicated to pursuing this task, in a similar manner to how I approached the argument mapping one. Have one wing target the left, one wing target the right, and one wing focus on the public at large.
C) Forecasting. We need a think tank that's primary purpose is to get as good at forecasting as possible, and so we'll find and record every insight we can find when it comes to the topic, and deliberately practice with an internal prediction market. The problem of us all thinking along the same lines can be mitigated by creating 10-15 decision making frameworks some of which seem plausible, and some of which don't, and having people try to stick to that specific framework for a year at a time. That way, we can iterate on frameworks while also collecting experience.
The long term plan is to take over the world, but in the short run, 'know thyself', as well as improving my own sanity/rationality is key.
u/Anderkent [+1] (19 hours later)
So in a word you'd make yourself into Alice and Control? (apparently that story is ungoogleable, because I can't find a link)
u/Transfuturist [+1] Carthago delenda est. (a day later)
Alice and Control
I think it was mentioned here fairly recently... Are you sure the name is Alice?
u/nicholaslaux [+1] (21 hours later)
What would you do with the "failed trials"? Mass murder/suicide? If not, based on what you've described, I'm seeing around 40 copies of you by month 2. Then you're doubling for each of the drug tests, maybe? That's a lot of killing.
u/Khaos1125 [+1] (23 hours later)
No need to dispose of the failed trials, they can continue to contribute to many of these projects, or participate in many other aspects of the overall plan. While my initial reaction is to do as many of these as quickly as possible, I'd probably spread it over a longer time span in reality purely due to the financial realities of maintaining all the copies.
u/Farmerbob1 [+3] Level 1 author (6 hours later)
If I had children, I definitely would. Life can end at any moment.
As it stands right now, I still would. I have a three bedroom house, and could use a trustworthy roommate. I even have a spare computer they could borrow until they got a job to help pay the rent.
I know, this seems so... pedestrian. However, even if we don't share income it's still a net benefit for the mortgage and utilities. And yes, I probably wouldn't share money with myself if there wasn't serious need, because that other me needs to get a job, dammit. My niece, however, would get twice as many presents, every year.
u/Transfuturist [+1] Carthago delenda est. (a day later)
My niece, however, would get twice as many presents, every year.
D'aww. :P
u/mhd-hbd [+3] Writes 'The World is Your Oyster, The Universe is Your Namesake' (12 hours later)
I'm writing a story that features this exact ability in the shape of a handheld device, and with the limitation that the copies only last around an hour before dissolving harmlessly into nothing.
So; the primary limitation of this machine seems to be that the copies are not easily expendable. However, if the machine can recycle human bodies that does take care of that problem.
Also, I am assuming that the scanner is separate from the duplication chamber, so you know if you are the scanned or the cloned copy.
Here's a helpful mantra, to recite before scanning:
If I am a clone, I will protect and aid my true self.
If I am a human, I will respect and utilize my copy.
When I am a cloned being, I am an asset; expendable. My true self is all that matters. I don't matter.
When I am the scanned original, I am a liability; irreplaceable. My clones don't matter. Only I matter.
I shall not want to be what I am not; I shall not mourn. That is the state of affairs; how it was, how it is, how it will be.
u/Dreamliss [+1] (16 hours later)
I'm interested in reading that story, if it's free, reply here or PM me a link?
I've often fantasized about having a cloning superpower, however my fantasy is a bit OP. Can clone instantly, infinitely. Clones can clone as well (they're exactly me, ability included). Clones can choose to un-clone (disappear) and memories will be merged into the original (me). I start a branching series of clones, who go into the world, far and wide. Periodically, they clone themselves once and then one merges back, updating me in memories and ability.
Your story sounds a bit more rational and limited though... But I'd picture in yours that every clone would be kinda sad and mopey for about an hour, unless the device imparts something in them that makes them not perfectly identical to the original. Imagine, you push a button on your device to clone yourself, and poof your POV changes and you're looking at yourself, holding the device, and you realize you have an hour to live. I don't think I (as a clone) could deal with that. And you'd have to be cruel as the original to keep doing it. (Unless, as I said, the device does something to mitigate the cruelty)
u/Solonarv [+2] Chaos Legion (a day later)
you realize you have an hour to live.
No, you don't realize it. In the clone's timeline, they chose to die in an hour so that the other instance would gain some advantage.
I think the fact that you can conditionally precommit to assisting your other instance (and, depending on the setting, to accept your death) helps a lot.
u/Bowbreaker [+1] Solitary Locust (a day later)
Couldn't you pretty much instantly conquer the world with that power of yours?
u/Dreamliss [+1] (a day later)
Yeah, I'm sure I could. It's a fantasy, a daydream. Definitely not a well balanced premise.
u/TheStevenZubinator [+2] Chaos Legion (14 minutes later)
Well, I'm an identical twin so I'm already halfway there.
One avenue to some humor using this machine would be further confusing people who mix up me and my brother.
And yes, I'd use this in a hot second. After a few days of letting my counterpart do whatever he wanted, we'd be sufficiently different enough to carry on a conversation. Although, now that I think about it, it would be emotionally taxing for one of us to have to give up many aspects of my current life. Even with myself, I think my SO and I would find it weird to have two mes in the house.
u/k5josh [+2] (2 hours later)
Even with myself, I think my SO and I would find it weird to have two mes in the house.
If only you had some sort of device, a machine if you will, to solve that...
u/TheStevenZubinator [+2] Chaos Legion (2 hours later)
I considered that, but I'm not sure if she'd be down for that. Even if she was, I don't think we could fit 4 people in our place.
Still, we could just load our pockets with all the cash we can get our hands on before entering the replicator and get a second place.
u/Geminii27 [+2] (an hour later)
Does the volume to be copied have to be closed? i.e. could I poke a stick halfway into it and get a copy of half a stick, or do I have to completely enclose whatever is being copied?
u/Dreamliss [+1] (16 hours later)
In my picture of it, enclosed. But who knows, it's fictional as of yet. ;) Keep in mind though, they said you need to supply material, so cloning valuable things requires more material. (though manufactured things... put in high value phone and metal, plastic, etc. scrap, get second phone...)
u/CopperZirconium [+1] (17 hours later)
Would that mean that I need to supply a corpse in order to make a copy of myself?
u/Dreamliss [+1] (17 hours later)
I don't think so. In a different comment, I copied the Fullmetal Alchemist Wiki's list of the components of a human body (water, carbon, iron, etc.). I think you would just research and put all the ingredients in there. To make it easier I imagine you could probably throw like, a dead cow or several dead pigs or what have you in there, I don't think humans necessarily are composed of different things than your typical mammal.
u/RobertWinslow [+1] (17 hours later)
Here is a video of Carl Sagan mixing together the chemical components of a human body. No corpse required.
u/Chosen_Pun [+2] The Chosen Ones (7 hours later)
One of my strongest desires has always been the ability to do quantitatively more things at once, and having an extra self or so hanging around so I could just be twins all the time is one of my favorite hypothetical means of doing so. Though, for that purpose, I'd settle for just having an extra set of arms.
u/nicholaslaux [+2] (22 hours later)
As several others have mentioned, there's a number of flaws for those of us who have established lives at this point in their life. A number of flaws arise if you have a significant other, a non-duplicable job, high expenses, or even just a non-negligible social circle.
Options if you have a significant other:
Lie to them about the existence of your clone (generally bad for relationships in general)
Have your clone never interact with them (likely emotionally traumatizing, given that they have all the memories of being you, and thus you've just forced yourself to dump your SO without any real reason)
Convince them (and yourself) to go full-poly with you and your clone (unknown if this is doable if you're not already so inclined)
Convince them to clone themselves along with you (probably the best choice, if possible, other than further increase of required resources)
Options if your job is not easily duplicated:
Try to find another position for your clone. (Depending on your field, this might be easier or harder. Software developer in a strong market? Not so bad. Marine biologist in academia? Good luck.)
Split work between you and your clone. (Hopefully you're really good at communication, because if there's some project specific details that got left out in your daily clone briefing, you're not going to have a clue, and you're no longer doubling up your income, so bill will be that much tighter.)
Get a shift/part time job. (If your current job is in any way intellectually or socially stimulating, you're going to have a bad time.)
Options for high expenses:
If you can both work, then you can both contribute to the bills. (Some things might cost less per capita for more people, like a larger house/apartment, so this would be a net increase in income.)
Continue at normal or slightly more than normal income. (Lots of other things, such as food and clothing, does not change in cost per capita when expanding it by 1 or 2.)
Options for social circle:
Tell friends about your cloning, have clone join social circle. (Shouldn't be an issue unless it destabilizes the social interactions in the group, unless you're trying to keep it a secret.)
Keep it a secret and split time. (Lack of shared memories will impact you the same here as it would with trying to share a job with project work or something similar.)
Prevent clone from interacting with friends. (Same negatives as not interacting with SO going forward, in regards to emotional impact.)
The alternative scenario is doing as was done in The Prestige, and committing mass murder/suicide to keep the total number of "you" down to one, but will also be highly likely to have strongly negative emotional impacts. The best possibility for this would be to use the machine as a save state, especially if you can scan without duplicating (in which case, "latest healthy state" would be a decent way to increase your ability to do things that would risk your own health, given someone else who can operate the "create new clone from backup" for you)
I think the best bet would actually be to collect large numbers of small paper bills and a small number of large paper bills, and use the free transformation to convert all of the small bills into some amount of larger bills, assuming that the amount/type of inks should hopefully be able to be sourced from other paper bills.
u/Jiro_T [+1] (a day later)
Finding another job for your clone is not as easy as "Software developer in a strong market? Not so bad." Finding a job requires having records of yourself including a Social Security number, college transcript, job references, etc. Attempting to use yours will leave a suspicious-looking trail.
You're pretty much going to have to go public. And once you go public, immediately contact a lawyer, so your clone can get a birth certificate (and let's hope the law doesn't require listing the date of birth as today), SSN, bank account, driver's license, etc. and be able to generally act without committing fraud. Otherwise your clone can't even legally sign a credit card receipt.
u/AmeteurOpinions [+4] Finally, everyone was working together. (an hour later)
Well... unless I can put my SO through, it would get rather awkward.
u/Bowbreaker [+1] Solitary Locust (a day later)
Learn to share?
u/Transfuturist [+1] Carthago delenda est. (a day later)
Kinky.
u/NotAHeroYet [+1] City of Angles Municipal Government (4 hours later)
Probably. If i only get one... maybe not, though. now seems like a bad time, and one of us would get screwed over, most likely, from the duplication, because we wouldn't have valid id, or we would, but two copies that make people suspicious. (meanwhile, i have no useful skills yet. as a second year college student, i would be spliting our resources two ways, unless we pretended to be one person and split classes- which would be bad for actually learning. it would likely end badly, and preparing a backup without making a copy would be better.)
unless this offer comes with future duplication, one me would never get their driver's liscence, and while i can get away with one id between two people, we'd need to be careful.
u/thakil [+1] (8 hours later)
Presuming I wanted to keep my new clone secret, it would be extremely hard for both of us to survive post cloning. We'd only have one legal identity, so it would be difficult for me to get an additional job. We could hardly afford to pay for both of us to live on just one job, and I'm just ignoring the whole problem of my wife suddenly having two husbands.
If we lived in a context where clones where an accepted legal entity, then maybe, as me 2 could go get a job for himself. But ultimately an army of mes would need feeding and shelter proportional to the number of mes, so it wouldn't be terribly financially viable.
u/tomintheconer [+1] (18 hours later)
i have no problem with any of this. time to start the tom-utopia!
u/Izeinwinter [+1] (20 hours later)
No. I'd be extremely interested in using the backup function, but having multiple instances running around at the same time is not a good longterm plan. I don't really want to end up fighting a war with the world entire, even if you win, you loose.
u/Bowbreaker [+1] Solitary Locust (a day later)
Let's say I have a sci-fi replication machine
in the process of making the copy your exact 'state' is saved as data. From this, you could create additional copies of yourself identical to you at the moment of the scan.
Does that mean that I am essentially giving you the ability to make as many copies of me as you wish? Because giving a complete stranger such power over me is a rather large deal.
If you're saying that you would give me my own machine, not networked to any database you have access to then I'd answer with a resolute yes. But this way... I don't know. Depends on how our meeting in person goes?
u/elevul [+1] Cyoria Observer (4 days later)
Can we link our brains together?
u/IWearTheMask [+0] (4 hours later)
Let's say I have a sci-fi replication machine that creates atomically perfect duplicates of whatever you put inside. Its not a magic mass-energy violation engine, it has to be supplied with raw material. The goal of the post is not to munchkin the machine, so don't worry about that. It won't damage the original either so don't worry about that as well.
Anyway, I have this machine and I offer to let you use it to copy yourself. The copy will have your memories, personality, its identical to you in every way. Would you take me up on my offer?
Yes, no hesitation.
Let's also add another twist, in the process of making the copy your exact 'state' is saved as data. From this, you could create additional copies of yourself identical to you at the moment of the scan.
Again, yes with no hesitation.
How would you use this? You can copy yourself but does that count as an instant shortcut to immortality, or is the copy not really 'you' ? Would you make any army of yourself, create a think tank of yous? What would you do if you had any easy way to make more of you?
I would feed other people into the device to make more of me, primarily the destitute and disestablished, the ones who are passed by by others. Possibly suicidal people.
I search out thought experiments to train myself for theoretical situations(Newcomb, Prisoner's Dilemma, etc.), and one that I came across in fiction is one that I don't know if it already has a name. I'd call it 'Identical Selfish Cooperation' or some such thing. Essentially, I've already primed myself with a multitude of secret verification methods that any version of myself stemming from certain points in time will be able to use. Also, I've already precommitted(a la Timeless Decision Theory) to never directly and knowingly hinder any plans of any other version of myself, while being amenable to(or even just outright) helping further plans of other versions of myself.
This ends with me pushing humanity strongly towards achieving functional immortality and interstellar travel at every level.
u/Dreamliss [+2] (16 hours later)
I would feed other people into the device to make more of me, primarily the destitute and disestablished, the ones who are passed by by others. Possibly suicidal people.
... "it has to be supplied with raw material"
Copied from Fullmetal Alchemist Wiki:
"Water (35 L), Carbon (20 kg), Ammonia (4 L), Lime (1.5 kg), Phosphorous (800 g), Salt (250 g), Saltpeter (100 g), Sulfur (80 g), Fluorine (7.5 g), Iron (5 g), Silicon (3 g) and fifteen other elements in trace amounts."
So I'd just buy up a lot of those ingredients and use that to make the clones.
u/Bowbreaker [+1] Solitary Locust (a day later)
What about out of place trace materials that aren't supposed to be in your system but have still somehow accumulated either recently or over a long time? I'm curious if their sudden disappearance would have any effect. Maybe even a positive one in the case of harmful heavy metals?