22 KiB
[BST] What would it take to create a rational Artemis Fowl story?
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Author: u/None *
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URL:
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Score: 16
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Created: 2015-10-06T02:55:29
Post:
[deleted]
Comments:
u/chthonicSceptre [+36] Highly Unlikely (an hour later)
OKAY.
I know EY used Sherlock Holmes as an example of how not to do rational fiction, because Sherlock Holmes makes inferences using evidence not available to the audience. Going by the works of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, this is not actually the case. Holmes deduces things that are really really unlikely, but the stories are scrupulous about fair play. Granted that sometimes the details are trivial (EY deliberately avoids this with James' rock), but it's definitely fair play.
Artemis Fowl is not. In fact, Artemis Fowl is what jumped to mind in place of Sherlock Holmes specifically because it was such a better example of how not to write a genius character. Also because I liked those books, but yes.
I think...
I think the best way to do it would be just the first book. At first. What would an actual genius do to profit from the knowledge that magic is real, and exclusively the domain of fairies who do not negotiate with humans?
I'm not ashamed to say that I've got a long list of potential instigating actions Artemis could use sitting in a file on my desktop. Given better character flaws, he'd be a genuinely interesting villain protagonist.
u/Lugnut1206 [+10] (14 hours later)
I mean, unless you're going to pull a HPMOR and rewrite the main characters backstory, you ought to keep in mind that Artemis grew up getting "gold is power" drilled into his head by his father. Then the father comes back and has a complete change in goals, so... maybe you could work off of that, actually. Artemis is a rationalist with a misguided utility function - optimizing for personal gold and power for the Fowl family.
Course, if he was a perfect rationalist he should figure out pretty fucking quickly that he's got the wrong idea.
u/None [+6] (15 hours later)
I don't know man, money means power, power means you can achieve your utility function more easily. Harry was also pretty greedy in chapter 5 with the silver plan.
u/Transfuturist [+5] Carthago delenda est. (22 hours later)
You know what would be really cool? If Artemis' father had been the one wheeling and dealing the fairies, and he slipped and got mind-wiped, with some added behavioral modification to reunite with his poor, sweet, totally-not-a-sociopath son.
And you don't seem to understand, preferences are arational. Utility functions aren't misguided, they are only ever incongruent with your own.
u/Lugnut1206 [+1] (22 hours later)
"Inaccurate utility function" then?
u/Transfuturist [+2] Carthago delenda est. (22 hours later)
What do you mean, "inaccurate?" It's a utility function.
u/chaosmosis [+3] and with strange aeons, even death may die (a day later)
I think they're treating "utility function" as referring to the mental model of one's preferences in one's head, rather than as referring to those preferences directly. Utility functions are more map than territory imo, so this seems reasonable to me.
u/FuguofAnotherWorld [+2] Roll the Dice on Fate (a day later)
I think s/he means sub-optimal. Gold is far from the best way to keep money lying around as mediums of exchange go.
u/gbear605 [+0] history’s greatest story (2 days later)
Inaccurate in that he would realize that the whole reason he wants gold (gold is stable and will always be wanted) is not entirely true and the real goal behind it (having power) can be achieved in better ways.
u/HeirToGallifrey [+9] Thinking inside the box (it's bigger there) (12 hours later)
Would you be willing to post said file? It sounds fascinating.
u/chthonicSceptre [+13] Highly Unlikely (17 hours later)
Artemis Fowl
He's an 11-year-old boy genius (where have we heard of that before?), and his role in cannon is as the wiley Irishman who separates the leprechaun from their pot o' gold. However, before we move on to what he is like, we should look at fairy civilization. Lost below the surface of the Earth for millenia, fairies survive by dint of technological superiority and magic. The former bears a short examination: their technicians have mastered human surveillance systems and presumably have satellites of their own orbiting the planet. They make use of this technology to monitor what they have to on the surface (rogue Lower Elements citizens, escaped trolls, kraken and other Class X fairy folk, and spontaneous magical phenomena.) For extreme emergencies, their neurologists have developed a system by which the mind can be examined, neurons be manipulated at will, and memories rewound. They have useful nuclear fusion reactors and stuff.
More interesting is their magic. A comment of LEP officer Holly Short to illustrate the problem: "I haven't been running hot in four years." Four years. That's quite the stretch for anyone, especially a reconaissance agent who presumably uses elfin magic on the regular. Magic, for common folk, simply isn't that taxing. Many species, particular pixies, centaurs and goblins, can go their whole lives having completed the ritual only once. Elves, perhaps, have a disadvantage there. The most common uses for magic are mesmerization (occasionally shortened to mesmer), a form of invisibility, and wholesale elimination of injuries. While elf telekinesis is only strong enough to deflect light within a certain radius of the individual, invisibility and illusion are their forte. Magical healing is used more rarely than it would be on the surface, in part due to the size and culture of fairy civilization, but it is undeniably effective at just about any use within the domain of restoring health that the user can dream of.
At any rate, having run out of magic suggests a spurt of heavy use, followed by a period of apathy towards renewing the ritual. Perhaps it's just as well; getting to the surface beyond the sight of humans is a PITA. Or perhaps there are ritual sites below ground.
Artemis Fowl Sr. was an Irish businessman and white-collar criminal. His family's company, (I really don't want to call it Fowl Industries), is heavily invested in the technology and communications sector, operates two IXPs in Ireland, and is frequently listed alongside IBM, HP, and Phonetix as a mainstay of computing innovation. Honestly, I picture E Corp from Mr. Robot. Fowl Sr. was personally involved in the global black market for nearly any good or service known to mankind, and maintained his status by providing exotic vices to those who might have been able to pass judgement on him.
He has been missing for three years. A deal with Russians gone bad in 2003, many assume. His wife, a British socialite named Angelina Fowl, subsequently suffered from a horrendous nervous breakdown, though some believe that she still controls (I swear I'm going to come up with a better name for this company). At the time, his son was seven.
Unlike most child prodigies, Artemis Fowl Jr. was pronounced entirely ordinary by his pediatricians and psychologists. At first. By the age of four, however, he was studying computer science, human psychology, Chaucer and Homer. By five he spoke nine languages, could remember any moment of his life after December of 1999 with perfect fidelity, and probably suffered from mild schizophrenia. One of his pet projects, a computationally inexpensive 8192-bit encryption system, he nicknamed "the Infinity Code", after its projected cracking time. Since birth, his constant companion Butler has provided for his safety. Having developed a taste for luxury, Artemis turned his mind to plotting shortly before the disappearance of his father (legally, he could not attend a university before the age of sixteen, and had no interest in applying for excemption.) Many of these schemes should be detailed so as to give y'all a better idea of his personality, but since that hasn't solidified yet, neither have they.
Fowl Sr. disapproved of his son's various ideas, though whether he thought them silly or excessive isn't known. Nevertheless, Artemis was shattered by the loss of his father (and, effectively, his mother as well). He turned his attention to recovering the both of them.
It was at this time he began to notice anomalies in the satellite registry. Mistakes in various national databases, he assumed at first. But eventually he was tempted to access one via a satellite he owned personally, sixteen solid hours of searching for weakness, and a buffer overflow attack overlooked by one of Foaley's apprentice coders.
It so happens that fairy magic is detailed extensively in the Book, a 99-page document which cannot be touched without the owner's permission, lest terrible shit happen. Literally every fairy has one, which makes it something of a weak point in their security. Moreover, Artemis suspects that it is, in fact, possible to read a book without touching it. (There are other reasons why permission is necessary, but that's not important right now).
So, Artemis Fowl decides to get his hands on a copy of the Book of the People. Armed with his bodyguard, Juliet Butler, millions of dollars in liquid assets, and a compromised fairy satellite, he sets out to change the world by acquiring a copy of the Book of the People.
Beyond that, I've worked out some crucial plot points this afternoon (thanks for the inspiration), and still have to decide to what degree our protagonist is a total sociopath, what role Short plays, and some other things. But that's the gist of it.
u/MugaSofer [+5] (a day later)
How does he go from "fairy-hiding software on his satellite breaks" to "here's how to exploit the Book mechanics"? Honestly, I'd prefer the original "he was chasing increasingly-solid-looking urban legends on the internet".
u/Lugnut1206 [+2] (19 hours later)
Wait, why Juliet and not Domovoi?
u/chthonicSceptre [+1] Highly Unlikely (21 hours later)
I meant both. Honestly, though, he might be a bit OP or irrelevant to this scenario. There are others where having him works better, but using Juliet might be better here. Thank you for the unintentional input.
u/None [+7] (a day later)
Domovoi is a vital part of Artemis Fowl, the first books at least. It'd be like removing Ron Weasley from Harry Potter fics, if Ron was a good character.
If we're still comparing it to HPMOR, his role in the story might be a little like McGonagall's, a connection to his humanity and morality while also being one of the adults he can trust. (Also he'd still get Artemis out of physical situations since I'm sure the best rationalists still forget to exercise frequently)
u/Lugnut1206 [+3] (21 hours later)
OP? Just tune him back a bit so he's realistic.
u/chthonicSceptre [+1] Highly Unlikely (17 hours later)
That's one scenario, anyways.
u/fljared [+21] United Federation of Planets (2 hours later)
It'd be hard to not write the Faeries as rather evil and hypocritical.
Much of the books take a poor view of human actions on climate change. Fair enough, and the Fairy characters' words on it come off as reasonable rather than soap boxing.
That being said, these are people with nuclear batteries so ubiquitous they put them in their standard-issue weaponry. Sharing the technology would probably help out a lot with the whole fossil fuel issue, guys. And your advanced technology. And magic healing ability...
The sheer, inherent power behind the Mesmer ability is there to. The fairy people really should have most of the world under control given that a single agent can mind control any world leader.
The racism is also a bit sketchy. Foaly claims that Goblins are about as smart as dogs- There's even tests that show it! This sounds less like a reasonable theory and more like the ramblings of 20s eugenicist, but it's less-or-more taken for granted in the main story.
u/None [+7] (9 hours later)
Yeah, I always thought Foaly was exaggerating for comedic effect, Goblins seem dumb but sentient.
u/MugaSofer [+2] (13 hours later)
I don't know, dogs are pretty smart. Compare the Goblins to the street dogs of Moscow.
(Yes, yes, Goblins can talk, but that doesn't require human-level intelligence. There have been birds who could string a sentance together. Goblins don't exactly pass the Turing Test.)
u/fljared [+4] United Federation of Planets (18 hours later)
Goblins posses speech, planning, organization, understanding of society (Enough to organize in gangs, and many/most live as private citizens and not in triads).
Much of the evidence against Goblin intelligence is either from what are clearly the dumbest members of the species (The one who apparently signed his own name as the treasurer on fake currency smacks less as a representative sample, and more as The People's equivalent of stupid criminals.
Goblins do pass the Turing Test. In the first book, Mulch's conversations with the one in his cell show understandings of self, other, in-group and out-group, loyalty and lack of it.
u/MugaSofer [+1] (20 hours later)
The Turing Test is the ability to pass for human in a conversation; Goblins don't appear to be able to talk without revealing their deficiency. At the very least, none do so in the books.
Mulch's conversations with the one in his cell show understandings of self, other, in-group and out-group, loyalty and lack of it.
I'm pretty sure dogs have all those things, with the possible exception of "understandings of self", since I'm not certain what you mean by that.
EDIT:
speech, planning, organization, understanding of society (Enough to organize in gangs, and many/most live as private citizens and not in triads).
As I said, compare the street dogs of Moscow. None of those but speech are particularly special, especially considering they don't seem to be very good at them.
u/Transfuturist [+3] Carthago delenda est. (22 hours later)
The Turing Test is the ability to pass for human in a conversation
And that is exactly why it is completely insufficient for a test of general intelligence.
u/MugaSofer [+1] (a day later)
Oh, absolutely. I was just noting Goblins are at least less intelligent than humans, or "intelligent" in different ways.
u/fljared [+2] United Federation of Planets (a day later)
Alright, a read through of the first book shows the existence of an elf-goblin hybrid, along with mentions of Goblins protesting their childrens' imprisonment due to a gang war.
Also, for whatever reason Trolls, which are much more like animals, are given a higher value than humans. Officers are explicitly banned from killing them.
u/MugaSofer [+3] (2 days later)
a read through of the first book shows the existence of an elf-goblin hybrid
Yeah, I got nothing. They're not even mammals!
u/fljared [+2] United Federation of Planets (2 days later)
Biologically, that could just be a lack of author understanding of how species work.
Culturally, I'd expect Elf-Goblin hybrids to be seen as closer to bestiality if Goblins were actually that dumb. Of course, that just raises the question of how he got that job in a racist society. Perhaps Fairy cultural norms are similar to Western 70s racial/sexual norms? Holly being the first Recon officer would fit this.
u/MugaSofer [+3] (2 days later)
I don't remember, were any Goblins actually described in the first book? The author might not have decided on "subhuman lizards" for his interpretation when that line was written.
u/fljared [+1] United Federation of Planets (2 days later)
A few times, thought the major characters were elves/sprites along with a centaur and a dwarf.
u/Bowbreaker [+0] Solitary Locust (a day later)
Intellectually knowing that they actually exist.
u/MugaSofer [+1] (a day later)
I still don't have any idea what that means or how to test for it.
Unless it means that their brain contains a world-model featuring themself, in which case yes, dogs have it.
u/None [+10] (4 hours later)
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u/Murska1FIN [+3] (5 hours later)
Maybe they police themselves to avoid such situations?
u/The_Entire_Eurozone [+3] (12 hours later)
That's definitely a possibility, but then you have to take into account that this means they have the ability to circumvent the protective detail for the heads of state, and confirm these heads are not mesmered. At which point, it seems pretty likely that they'd be able siege Fowl manor pretty effectively, in the events of the first book.
u/MugaSofer [+3] (13 hours later)
They're invisible. Wouldn't that do it?
IIRC all they need to tell if you're mind-whammied is a photograph that shows your eyes.
u/The_Entire_Eurozone [+1] (14 hours later)
Yes, but in the time between the mesmer and the photo check, those world leaders could do a lot of bad. There would need to be constant monitoring to insure these world leaders aren't hypnotized.
u/FuguofAnotherWorld [+4] Roll the Dice on Fate (a day later)
Well, if the world leaders have cameras in their places (and the elves can totally ensure that they do) then hourly checks would not be out of the question.
u/elevul [+2] Cyoria Observer (2 days later)
Automatic checks as well, possibly?
u/FuguofAnotherWorld [+2] Roll the Dice on Fate (3 days later)
No reason not to if you have spare computing power.
u/chaosmosis [+2] and with strange aeons, even death may die (a day later)
You could ignore Artemis and use the girl genius from a few books later as the main character instead.
u/None [+2] (a day later)
You mean the most hated character of the series to the point she completely disappeared after her debut? She was Artemis without the flaws or interesting circumstances.
Please no.
u/chaosmosis [+2] and with strange aeons, even death may die (a day later)
She's a blank canvas that you can do whatever you want with. Artemis vs fairies has already been done. OC vs Artemis might be more entertaining. Let Artemis keep all his OP stuff like Butler, and enhance his genius abilities, and you could have an interesting conflict.
u/None [+1] (a day later)
Any minor character is a blank canvas you can do whatever you want with, but without the negative mental associations. If you're just picking her because she's smart, you could just buff some character's intelligence like most rational fics do instead.
EDIT: Oh, you edited your post after I posted. Rational fics are usually loosely related to the original plot, they don't just make up a completely new one or they wouldn't really be fics. The humans vs. fairies conflict is the core of Artemis Fowl.
u/elevul [+1] Cyoria Observer (2 days later)
This might indeed not be such a bad idea, but it would alienate people who haven't read the original books (and might not want to, considering the flaws), unless some serious worldbuilding is done at the beginning.
u/TBestIG [+1] Every second of quibbling is another dead baby (a day later)
Any particular reason in mind?
u/None [-3] (3 hours later)
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u/TBestIG [+2] Every second of quibbling is another dead baby (6 hours later)
Sorry what part of The Supernaturalists was that?
u/None [+1] (7 hours later)
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u/None [+2] (9 hours later)
I gotta agree with you. I can remember one of the old movie teasers was built entirely around Mulch farting. The man seems to find that kind of thing hilarious. I don't think it took over the story, especially when Mulch isn't even in some of the books.
EDIT: Great, he's deleted his posts and now I look like an idiot.
u/TBestIG [+1] Every second of quibbling is another dead baby (16 hours later)
Movie teasers? They haven't even started work on the movie yet. Could you send me a link?
u/None [+0] (16 hours later)
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u/TBestIG [+2] Every second of quibbling is another dead baby (17 hours later)
I know, it's been in development hell and hasn't even been started. That's why I was asking how there was a teaser for something that wasn't even remotely a thing yet
u/None [+0] (17 hours later)
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u/TBestIG [+1] Every second of quibbling is another dead baby (17 hours later)
A movie with no budget, no director, no workforce, no special effects, and no script, that isn't even in development yet can't possibly have a teaser. I looked around online and I could only find fan-made trailers, and I still didn't see the one you're talking about
u/None [+2] (17 hours later)
Trust me, I've searched for it too. I think the problem is that I got it from an artemis fowl fan website (it wasn't a fan trailer, though, Eoin Colfer was in the video, with the teaser projected on a screen), and most of them are dead nowadays.
I know it sounds pretty convenient, but trust me, I wouldn't go to the extents of lying just to agree with some obscure subreddit user about Eoin finding farts funny.
Also, Mulch wasn't 3D or anything that would have taken too much effort to make. I'm just saying Eoin projected a picture of Mulch with some added effects and some text about the movie. I think you might be thinking of a trailer when I said teaser.
u/Nevereatcars [+1] The Greatest Is Behind (22 hours later)
You're /u/makinporing!