24 KiB
[BST] What would you do if you were trapped in a Groundhog Day scenario?
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Author: u/raymestalez *
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/3o3bod/bst_what_would_you_do_if_you_were_trapped_in_a/
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Score: 8
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Created: 2015-10-09T12:12:59
Post:
The same day repeats over and over again, no consequences. But you don't know when it might suddenly stop. Maybe in 5 days maybe in 5000 years. What do you do?
(besides the obvious - developing skills, reading, eating, etc.)
For maximum fun - you are trapped in NYC, for maximum challenge - in a boring village in the middle of nowhere.
Comments:
u/Chronophilia [+18] sci-fi ≠ futurology (3 hours later)
You start out by doing all the good you can, finding out about preventable accidents in your area. You can't counsel your friends in any way that'll stick, but you can find out what makes them happy and give it to them. Spend your money on gifts and donations - it's not like there's any point in keeping it.
And while there's limits to how much you can get done in 24 hours, you can do a lot. You can get to the other side of the world with hours to spare. You can meet people. Collect phone numbers and e-mail addresses, those'll still work the next day.
Yet it's funny. The more you do to help people, the more they seem like robots or second-rate AIs. Stimulus, response. Give the same stimulus and you get the same response. The dialogue trees branch out in your mind's eye. It's just like a computer game, with its good endings and its bad ones. And once you've found the best ending, with no higher branches to strive for... well, it would get repetitive just doing the best path over and over. Why not try one of the bad endings?
The first time you kill someone on purpose, you're horrified at yourself. But it gets easier. Running and fighting is thrilling - scary, but you're in no real danger so it's like the best amusement park ride there ever was. And competence is thrilling too - fighting to the death is something no other human could practice! It's actually surprising how easy it is to outfight trained soldiers, break into secure areas.
And you're learning so much! In their last moments, your friends show remarkable bursts of courage, or weakness, or bloodlust, or honour. They reveal sides of their character that nobody imagined was there. You come to know them far better than they know themselves. You know their weaknesses, neuroses, and obsessions. Now you can break them in far more creative ways.
Some days you feel disgusted at yourself, and resolve to be a better person. This has no long-term consequences for anyone but you.
After a few subjective decades of this, immortality wears you down. You've seen all there is to see, done all there is to do. Or at least, a representative sample of it. New experiences were the only thing that kept you going for so long, and now they've run out. There's no point in getting up in the morning. Whatever you were planning to do today can wait. There's always tomorrow.
There's always tomorrow.
u/notmy2ndopinion [+8] Concent of Saunt Edhar (4 hours later)
The more you do to help people, the more they seem like robots or second-rate AIs. Stimulus, response. Give the same stimulus and you get the same response. The dialogue trees branch out in your mind's eye. It's just like a computer game, with its good endings and its bad ones. And once you've found the best ending, with no higher branches to strive for... well, it would get repetitive just doing the best path over and over. Why not try one of the bad endings?
This would make for a great MMORPG premise. Basically the world loops at variable intervals with PCs learning where to maximize/mine resources, how to best influence NPCs through optimal conversation trees, etc.
Each new patch for the game would be something like day #2, or week #3, etc.
The biggest flaw I foresee is the reset button timing -- everyone will want to squat at the same respawn/restart sites, so there's probably have to be a local sever for each time zone.
u/gbear605 [+3] history’s greatest story (4 hours later)
People could start in randomish locations, spread enough that squatting at spawn isn't an issue
u/notmy2ndopinion [+2] Concent of Saunt Edhar (10 hours later)
Unless they have ways to teleport, like Zorian.
Basically I want nobody512(?) to convert Mother of Learning to an MMORPG platform!
u/gbear605 [+2] history’s greatest story (10 hours later)
nobody103
u/xamueljones [+8] My arch-enemy is entropy (3 hours later)
Sorry for such a long post. I had a really detailed answer which I already posted to another thread, but for a month-long loop.
First of all I'd assume that someone near me put me in this loop and is paying attention to what I do. So I would maintain regular routine for at least the first fifty to hundred loops. It would be easy to keep from getting bored since I'm a college student and what I study (or use for entertainment) can vary by a significant amount from day to day. I'd also memorize significant events that happen(ed) to the people around me
as well as lottery tickets/stock pricesso I can commit simple crimes for some fast, hard cash in preparation for future loops. Note that I'm assuming there's at least the possibility whoever placed me into a time loop doesn't have ultimate power to spy on me whenever they want, since my loop might be an accident and I really don't want any other loopers to force me into a permanent cycle of dying every day or worse (making it so I never existed in the first place).Depending on whether or not I notice anyone else acting differently, I'd then start spying on them as a seeming non-looper, or concluding that I'm (possibly) alone. If I'm alone, I'd first investigate the mechanism behind the loop before having fun with it.
My first theory is that my body is just moved backwards in time (or to a near-identical parallel universe) and eliminating my younger self. I would check for any changes to my body because aging in the loop is really, really, really, really bad. After that would be checks for any weird physical changes that aren't related to aging like pains, losing energy, infection, color changes, or anything else out of the normal. Extremely through and expensive hospital check overs are done after the waiting phase.
After going over my body, I then check the second theory where my brain-state is being copied at the end of each loop and overwriting the version from yesterday. This theory means that all physical changes to the neurons in my brain such as new memories, instincts/reflexes, and brain DAMAGE will be carried over. I'd test my reflexes (since reflex is partially a function of brain behavior) and different types of memories (topographic/spatial, episodic, declarative, procedural, semantic, and anything else I can get from a biology textbook on the brain). I would figure out some way to get an MRI scan of my brain over multiple loops to look for physical changes to the brain. I would be very careful about activities that can damage the head, addiction to drugs, or psychological torture. One way to test for this is to inject a harmless chemical to dye parts of the brain and look for the chemical via brain scans in the next loop. It's done all the time in animal experiments with no harm done. This theory implies that my brain will probably degrade into senility, develop cancer, or some other disorder in a few centuries from the aging. Not as bad as the first theory, but not as good as I would hope.
The third theory is that at the start of each loop, I'm living a hyper-realistic dream where a year in dream time is like a second when awake. Then my memories are sent back in time as part of an even longer dream. You can pick up reflexes in dream, since sleep is when the brain consolidates one's memories for permanent long-term storage and muscle memories are also stored in the brain (definitely not the muscle and I really dislike that bad terminology). However, ingrained reflexes will be lost or severely degraded at the start of each loop since it takes time for the brain to re-adapt to the new neural structures being rebuilt over and over. This is the best theory for myself since no physical problems will carry over, but it makes it harder to preserve information (read identity or memories) perfectly. According to information theory, error-free copying is very hard (I suspect impossible once one goes above a certain level of complexity).
If all of these theories are false and I'm starting each loop with no detectable physical change, then I'd be forced to spend a lot more time on general human biology for anything that might be changing about me without my notice due to my lack of biological knowledge. If there's still nothing else I can discover changing about me, then this means that the "information" of my memories are being somehow stored outside of my body and I'd be investigating the possibility of being in a hyper-realistic stimulation, having a soul, or something even weirder.
These are the first few things I'd test once I'm convinced that I am in a time loop since knowing how it affects me is crucial to knowing what's worth learning or not (as well as knowing in advance any potential problems the loops may cause). If I'm relearning something every loop, then I'd mostly ignore combat training to focus on memorizing information or mental tricks such as cooking, medical knowledge, and so on. But if I'm building on reflexes I trained into instinct, then I'd devote loops to combat, sewing, crafting, archery, riflery, and all of the tedious reflexive work I want to know.
NOW for the meat of the time loops!
I'd spend time learning, just learning about a lot of things. One of the biggest distractions for me is daily life. But now I don't have to worry about regular responsibilities such as getting good grades, money to survive, socializing with friends/family, and other necessities to function daily in society without ruining my future. One potential issue is consuming goods such as movies, comics, games, and other pleasure activities that just waste time. But once I spend a lot of loops entertaining myself with stuff like that, I'd run out of new material and be forced to actually pursue constructive goals where I create instead of consuming (hopefully this happens instead of me being a phenomenally lazy meat-sack of a couch potato). Spending time just learning or practicing is an inevitable state unless I have enemies/problems to deal with. After all if I have nothing else to do, then practice will be my defense against boredom and being creative and learning acts as it's own source of entertainment and healthy mental well-being.
I would train myself up to talented amateur or journeyman level in as many fields as possible. Mastery level is for areas that I have an extreme interest in or is required for whatever task I wish to accomplish in a particular loop (hacking FBI, dominating the world's economy, public speaking/blackmailing/politicking my way into USA presidency). No one can get 100% completion in life and I really don't want to break my mind trying.
In addition to learning new areas, I would spend time on physical conditioning no matter which theory is true. Even if my body doesn't gain any muscle and I can't improve it in any possible way from loop-to-loop, I'd still work on some strength training. It's possible to train the body to exert more strength if you can ignore the pain. While it's damaging if you start out lifting 200 pounds when you never done any weight-lifting in your life, you can learn to force more strength out of the same pre-loop body with a stronger willpower. Which is too useful to not learn how to do even if it's going to ruin the body for the rest of the loop. Also agility and reflex training should be more mental than physical. I'd have to talk to a body builder, doctor, and professional trainers to actually know what to test for and work on, but it should be possible to improve myself even with a static body.
Aside from learning and investigating quirks of the time loop and its influence on my body, I'd spend time experimenting and inventing. Since mistakes cost me nothing more than time, I can do things that would bankrupt governments and destroy continents to enable me to discover and advance technology and scientific theories.
Finally I'll try to make myself grow as a person through repetitive practice and hypercompetence, because as the first potential transhuman (with immortality via time loop, you are transhuman) I want the version of me at the end of the loops to be someone I approve of, a good person.....or one who prefers to cooperate, but can crush you like a bug if you are rude.
In summary, my list of things to do is:
Wait and Watch
Investigate
Learn and Experiment/Invent
Have periodic time loops where I set myself nigh-impossible goals to make myself grow as a person, shock and awe the masses, and to signal other potential time loopers.
Innortal has good ideas and a lot of the magic stuff I probably can replicate with advanced technology after a few million loops. Now that I think of it, there's a lot of stuff on anime that I would love to reenact in real-life. Heh, heh, heh, heh....
I honestly can't predict the odds between me going insane, becoming a hyper-competent real-life Mary Sue, breaking down into Cthulu level of wEiRd, something utterly impossible for present-me to comprehend (yes I can imagine cthulu-like weirdness), or some mixture of the above by the end of the loops if it goes on for a few millennia. But it'll be a blast!
PS There's not too much difference to me between New York and some tiny, isolated village in the middle of nowhere as long as I have access to the Internet. The Internet is the time-looper's best friend with access to unlimited information and once I develop my hacking skills enough, I probably can trick governments into sending me anything I need through chartered jet flights and illegal transactions of obscene amounts of money.
But if I didn't have any access to the Internet during the loop? For the rest of my very, very, very, very, VERY long lifespan?......well there's going to be a lot of property damage...................I think I read something somewhere about how to synthesize thermite......
u/notmy2ndopinion [+2] Concent of Saunt Edhar (4 hours later)
You raise an interesting point about mind-body dualism that I hadn't really considered before!
I would figure out some way to get an MRI scan of my brain over multiple loops to look for physical changes to the brain.
A routine MRI scan won't have the necessary resolution/fidelity that you're interested in. An fMRI, PET or SPECT scan might, so it's be worthwhile to hack/enroll yourself in some sort of research study and learn to interpret the results.
u/xamueljones [+1] My arch-enemy is entropy (4 hours later)
I just wrote down the first brain-scanning procedure I could come up with, but realistically I'd be trying all of them in the hopes of finding something unusual about my brain or body.
u/notmy2ndopinion [+1] Concent of Saunt Edhar (9 hours later)
Glad that I can spare you the hypothetical Groundhog Day you would have spent then :-)
u/nerdguy1138 [+1] GNU Terry Pratchett (14 hours later)
"no one can get 100% completion in life" said people who don't have effectively unlimited time!
u/gbear605 [+1] history’s greatest story (4 hours later)
One possibility you forgot is that whatever mechanism is moving you back in time is editing the past you's brain to have your memories, reflexes, etc. without actually copying the entire brain, so chemicals in your brain wouldn't be taken back in time. Remember that you're in a freaking time loop, the thing causing it could be omnipotent. That's how Innortal's loops work. (Source: run the Worm loops section of the time loops based on Innortal's loops)
u/xamueljones [+2] My arch-enemy is entropy (4 hours later)
I think you misunderstood me. The second theory is checking if my brain is being overwritten which is covering the possibility of a physical change. You're right that I was thinking about a total change in my brain, but if it's a partial edit, then there should still be some physical signs of changing neural structures such as changes in memory and different organization of data as I move from novice to expert in multiple skills. Of course, we might not have the technology yet or the ability to interpret this sort of change with existing tech.
u/notmy2ndopinion [+1] Concent of Saunt Edhar (10 hours later)
Or some alternative hypotheses:
A) you could be a transdimensional being that seems to time-skip but you're really just in an alternate dimension where time is slightly displaced (by exactly 24 hours for some reason?)
B) you could be a Boltzmann brain that "just so happens" to rewrite itself to simulate an outside world that keeps repeating (perhaps the 24 hour periodicity come from some sort of orbital or pulsar activity)
u/ArgentStonecutter [+6] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (an hour later)
Everything.
u/Rhamni [+4] Aspiring author (an hour later)
You naughty, naughty boy.
u/Chronophilia [+1] sci-fi ≠ futurology (12 hours later)
Everyone.
u/Nepene [+5] (31 minutes later)
Work out ways to prove to various world leaders who I am- win lotteries, gather secrets, all that. Work out a reliable way to call them and get their allegiance.
Try to use my abilities to help science. I can help them search through databases of compounds for new drugs, memorize the 1/1,000,000 that work, we can find solutions to protein folding issues. Whatever can be done in a day. I can coordinate archeological digs,
Help people run models.
I can find new rare earth mineral deposits, oil deposits, rare species.
http://www.wired.com/2011/07/ff_swr/
I could probably get data for all of these experiments.
u/whywhisperwhy [+1] (a day later)
Do you really believe your memory is up to the task? Genuinely curious- in theory, I really love the idea but personally I think it would be a lost cause.
Training yourself to be an expert in many fields? Possible, there's an experience factor there that would help you retain it (although there's a limiting factor: a day really isn't enough to do many of the projects/experiences that I think would help you achieve mastery). And I like your experiment ideas, brute forcing these would be tedious but I agree would be of great value. But just flat our memorizing the location of all the data needed for models, "new rare earth mineral deposits, oil deposits, rare species"...?
u/Nepene [+1] (a day later)
There are a number of memory techniques for long term memory, and I could learn to use them.
Training yourself to be an expert in many fields?
Unlikely, the average age of a nobel prize winner is like 40, far too much to learn. I was never suggesting that- I'd seek to get political power from politicians- I could find blackmail material, whatever, and get actual scientists to run experiments that could be done in a day and produce easily digestible results.
I wouldn't memorize models. I'd memorize the result, like the shape of the molecules that cured breast cancer, or the gps coordinates of oil.
u/boomfarmer [+5] Trying to be helpful (47 minutes later)
Have you read any of the Innortal Loops/the Immortal Loops constellation of fanfiction? Whole universes get set in Groundhog-style Loops. Then the crossovers start.
u/Transfuturist [+0] Carthago delenda est. (8 hours later)
It's Innortal, and the crossovers are what ruins it.
u/boomfarmer [+3] Trying to be helpful (9 hours later)
ImmortalInnortal started it, aye, but others took it and created the meta-story of the Admins who run the universe-tree Yggdrasil that experienced a crash, which caused the Loops.I think sometimes there are nice crossovers, like the Dragonriders of Pern and How To Train Your Dragon Loops.
u/Transfuturist [+2] Carthago delenda est. (9 hours later)
No, Innortal. Two Ns.
u/boomfarmer [+2] Trying to be helpful (9 hours later)
Damn you autocorrect. Innortal started it, but the Immortal Loops is the name of the fandom Loops.
u/MugaSofer [+6] (5 hours later)
My teenage boy is showing, but I'd probably end up figuring out how to have a one-night-stand with all my crushes. (Or discovering I don't actually want to, depending on how the conversations go.) At the very least, the lack of consequences mean I'd talk to attractive people - people in general, TBH - far more often.
I'd probably make a great deal of art, since I'm usually OK with scrapping stuff after I've finished. I suspect I'd be far more willing to do physically dangerous but enjoyable things, like climbing the outside of a building. I'd spend a lot of time in thinly-veiled philosophical discussion about my situation - I might even post it to Reddit.
I really hope the loop hit at a point where I was at the "fit" point of my exercise-laze around cycle, where I have internet, and where I'm well-rested (or I can at least get well-rested rather than "resetting".)
I suspect my paranoia would drive me to find some easily-verified prediction that I could check at the beginning of each day, to reassure myself that I'm ... well, honestly, if I was delusional I'm not sure I'd notice, but it would at least give me some peace of mind.
EDIT: Oh, I would also unquestionably snap and kill a few people at some point for getting in my way.
u/Salivanth [+8] (12 minutes later)
If I know the day is going to stop eventually, I should spend some time researching any lotteries that run on that particular day, and buy the winning tickets for them each day.
Though the real answer is...I have no idea. If the loop lasts more than a couple of years, I suspect the Salivanth who finishes the loop will consider the Salivanth of today to be an idiot, if past trends continue to be accurate. If 2500 years is the average? There's really no way to tell what I might think of given that amount of time.
u/Yuridice [+5] (an hour later)
Enjoy myself, it would be like getting a free 5 days to 5000 years added to my lifespan. I have a massive backlog, and 5000 years might be enough to make a dent in it.
u/itisike [+3] Dragon Army (4 hours later)
might
u/nerdguy1138 [+2] GNU Terry Pratchett (14 hours later)
I have nearly every story on Fanfiction.net, in a dozen languages. 5000 years might be time enough.
u/None [+12] (48 minutes later)
Go insane, most likely.
u/want_to_want [+1] (a day later)
This. The lack of personal relationships would kill most commenters here before they even make a dent in their grandiose plans.
u/LeonCross [+3] (2 hours later)
Well.
I'd certainly find out if there's a point in which I've consumed enough fiction and / or video games that I can start back over at the beginning of the list and work my way through it in time to not be bored by making it to the end of the list and working back through it.
Then there's the fun of eventually seeing what happens why the brain runs out of space to store new memories.
If I reach a point where there's more shit in my head than should reasonably fit there, then it's moderate confirmation that they're being stored outside time / space somehow, which is sure would be something interesting for someone to study to whatever degree they can while relying on whatever I can relay to them between resets.
It gets real fun if they eventually figure out how to manipulate and / or replicate the effect.
u/Sceptically [+1] (14 hours later)
Video games would pretty much end up being speed runs as you try to get through what you achieved the previous few hundred days in order to get to new content.
Most of what I'd want to do (in life as in gaming) requires some form of saving of state.
u/Salivanth [+1] (23 hours later)
You could actually just learn to speedrun. It's surprisingly fun.
u/itisike [+1] Dragon Army (4 hours later)
Win.