24 KiB
[BST]Manipulate this setting, please?
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Author: u/NotAHeroYet City of Angles Municipal Government*
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/3o4xf4/bstmanipulate_this_setting_please/
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Score: 1
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Created: 2015-10-09T19:26:00
Post:
Everyone can summon a single familiar, but you do not get to choose. Roughly 96% summon either earthy creatures that appear naturally, or earthly creatures that don't (pegasi, gryphons, etc.). Neither of these have any truly abnormal properties, though there is some degree of physical impossibility for the second list, it's not extreme. All these familiars are mindless, and completely obedient.
The last 4% are not. These are thinking creatures from mythology, pulled up or down for reasonable fairness. The ritual favors, but isn't exclusively, creatures from greek and european mythology in this area. These have no loyalty to their master save self-serving loyalty. They know roughly 95% of what you know, and 5% is replaced with stuff you could have learned but didn't. (Usually, the rarer the information, the more likely it's shared between you- this last 5% is mostly trivial.)
The second type, let's call them youkai for lack of a better grouping, break physics at times. They demonstrate impossible strength, speed and durability, and energy projectiles refered to as magic. In addition, you can kill one solely by attacking a hand persistently enough, or fail to kill one by a blow that should chop off their head- while damage is more effective some places than others, harm is distributed through the body. For some, the blow just stops, and for others the head reattaches itself, or regrows, or the blade passes through but the head stays put. some have other abilities, but very few have significant ones that realy change the setting. A finite number of duplicates, an ability to manipulate blizzards, minor super-hero powers, really, almost exclusively secondary. All youkai look vaugely human, if not more than vaugely, but have inhuman traits. Almost all can communicate verbaly. No youkai has an inherent love for their master, though they may develop a bond.
There is a liquid they are especially vulnerable to, so humans might be able to beat them in a fight, with an ambush or sufficient numbers.
Of course, humanity does have one real point of leverage against them. Either type of familiar can be revived from the dead, restored to full health, and relocated to the ritual's location, using three seperate rituals. It's worth noting that when you kill it and eat the body, the ritual still works, and the nutrition is not lost. Apparently, a new body is formed out of nothing. These rituals do require materials (common gemstones [quartz and other minor gems] or certain plants, traditionally, though other sustitutes do exist.), so it's not a free unlimited food hack, but it is an additional way to get food.
Youkai persist past their creator's death. Youkai don't want to die, but may not desire immortality either, just like some humans want to die eventually but not today.
How do you abuse this? What loopholes can you see? How would you utilize this setup? What differences would it make in a low-tech society?
Comments:
u/Nepene [+2] (28 minutes later)
Can you desummon familiars?
How does one summon a familiar? Where can you summon it? How often can you summon it.
I imagine almost everyone would be forced to summon their familiar in a secure setting for the first time, to eliminate psychopaths.
u/Rhamni [+1] Aspiring author (48 minutes later)
Psychopath summoners, or familiars?
u/NotAHeroYet [+2] City of Angles Municipal Government (56 minutes later)
Both, i presume. I assumed the setting's people were stupid enough to make a cermony of it, and do it as a group, 1 at a time, but if a bad enough catastrophe occurs, they'd step in. I also assumed they had at least three kill-switches, but only one of them is actually going to save the summoner, and even that one only sometimes. (guards, drop the platform into an aether tank, poison gas the room, maybe?) the familiar would know about number one, but not the others.
u/Nepene [+1] (an hour later)
If the person is mentally ill enough to attack a group of humans and youkai then they could be taken out, but the main purpose is to catch Youkai in a place where there are potent defences, mechanical and human, and if they prove disobedient or violent slaughter them and their summoner. Or imprison the summoner so they can't summon anything.
u/NotAHeroYet [+1] City of Angles Municipal Government (an hour later)
Not in any ways except killing them, or leaving the circle while summoning- but that's a tiny window of oppurtunity.
You create a symbol on the ground. the best known one is a pentagram-like symbol, with a variety of lines (made of melted metal into wood), made of common minerals. There are enough variants that you need one gem or arguably-a-gem (placed in the center. there is no noticable difference between a single gem and a lot of gems placed close together, but there is a size requirement.), one metal that can be melted, and one platform of some sort of wood, in addition to ash from flowers or bushes. You need a specific combination, and some won't work at all, but this is good for between thirty and one-hundred initial summonings, depending on the circle's radius.
The rituals for calling, reviving and restoring are arguably easier- you use ink on paper with either metal, gem dust, or certain flower's ashes mixed in, or place one of the above on top of the ink. generally these are set up on paper for more portable ones, and for stationary ones they make them similarly to the original summoning circle. summoning to location takes roughtly 15 minutes, and the summoner must be in the circle in some slight way. reviving takes 15 minutes, does not do anything alone (you must use both restoring and reviving afterwards), the summoner must be in the circle in some slight way, and heavily damages the circle- destroying a paper scroll on the first use, and getting 10-25 uses out of a stone or wood one. restoring takes fifteen minutes, the summoner must make contact with the circle to start the ritual, and the familiar must be in contact with the circle for the entire time. if any of the symbols are incorrectly done, the ritual takes longer, and if it's done incorrectly enough, the time to perform the ritual approaches infinity. on the flipside, a perfectly created symbol can work in 10 minutes, or at least so scholars claim, but the record is around twelve minutes, and that took weeks!
you can only summon a familiar to your location. you could theoretically make gold weave summoning symbols on your clothes, so you can summon them any time or place, but that's expensive... still viable, though you would go through clothes quickly. you can summon it once ever fifteen minutes as your budget allows.
theoretically, combining symbols is possible. it just never has worked out yet. either one effect works, or neither does.
papers work for about 5-10 uses, more if you use more expensive components, though, as stated, revival pretty consistently destroys that paper. bigger papers also last longer, but it may defeat the point of putting it on paper.
u/Nepene [+2] (an hour later)
Ok. Gems are going to be highly restricted by the various organizations around, perhaps certain metals and flowers to minimize the number of random summonings.
What's the probability that a random youkai will have a compliant or semi obedient personality? Let that number equal n. How many youkai+ human support would be required to reliably take down a top tier youkai? Let that number equal m.
(25/n)*m is the number an organization needs to be viable as a power.
For example, suppose 1/4 youkai are reasonably compliant. 3 average youkai along with human support can normally take down even a quite strong new youkai. 300 humans are needed to form an organization that can effectively vet new summoners and remain safe and stable. Perhaps 600 would be safer.
Any private group that tries to maintain itself independently will be viewed with suspicion if they lack the numbers, unless they can meet these requirements- if they have a particularly strong youkai or especially good abilities to use humans to take youkai out or some way of better instilling loyalty in youkai perhaps they can survive. Those that fail will be releasing dangerous supernatural monsters into the wild and will be taken over and used by more powerful groups as a matter of public safety.
u/NotAHeroYet [+1] City of Angles Municipal Government (an hour later)
Makes sense. eventually, then, would it be controlled on a national level, do you think, or would it approach a guild's setup instead? Though a thing to note is youkai can persist after their creator, for long periods of time, and get stronger over time, though the time to power increase is exponential (strong youkai grow slower.)
u/Nepene [+1] (2 hours later)
I imagine there would be a mix of national and guild set ups. Per the maths, a group could reasonably deal with rogue youkai and do spot checks on everyone with a size of a few hundred to a thousand, which is certainly within the realm of a guild.
Getting a central government is tricky though. Youkai could be very effective assassins and be very disruptive to a stable organization. An organization would need to reach a critical mass to be stable- let o be the percentage of youkai that have effective anti assassin abilities. Let p be the number of youkai that are needed to defend a central government building.
25* 1/n *m *1/o *p.
Suppose 10% are really good at stopping assassins, due to speed or illusion piercing abilities or whatever. Suppose 20 are needed to defend a central government building. Perhaps then 120k humans would be needed to have a stable central government, or double that for a reliably stable government. Lower than that and you're vulnerable- your youkai will be poorly suited to the task and be steadily depleted, more youkai will rebel causing more problems, your royalty or government will be deposed more easily.
As such, youkai would be natural leaders. A youkai is harder to assassinate and could maintain a stable government much easier.
New techniques to counteract youkai assassins and beserkers might lessen the need for such a large population, especially stable times or unstable might alter the numbers.
u/pedanterrific [+2] (40 minutes later)
Tech/magic level? Do humans have anything more effective than spears and crossbows, do they have fireball mages?
They demonstrate impossible strength, speed and durability, and energy projectiles refered to as magic. In addition, you can kill one solely by attacking a hand, or fail to kill one by a blow that should chop off their head.
I'm assuming the second one describes them functioning on an HP system? Anyway, this list is quite sufficient to overcome essentially arbitrary numbers of normal humans.
There is a liquid they are especially vulnerable to, so humans might be able to beat them in a fight, with an ambush or sufficient numbers.
Unless this liquid is ubiquitous on the level of water, it seems like it would be absurdly costly to stop the youkai from doing whatever they want. If one in twenty-five people can summon a superbeing that requires a specialized military response to stop, all small villages are ruled by youkai.
Probably this means that all familiar-summonings are conducted under a vat of anti-youkai liquid, and the unlucky people just go without a familiar from then on.
Of course, humanity does have one real point of leverage against them. Either type of familiar can be [...] relocated to the ritual's location. [...] These rituals do require materials (common gemstones [quartz and other minor gems] or certain plants, traditionally, though other sustitutes do exist.
Is there any way for the youkai to prevent that one? Does it need material components of their body, or the presence/participation of their summoner? What happens to a youkai when their summoner dies?
u/NotAHeroYet [+1] City of Angles Municipal Government (an hour later)
They have no mages of their own. they do have the occasional elephant or similarly powerful animal, and there are ways to aquire power, but all power comes from familiars, in one way or another.
yes, basically a HP system.
The liquid has a long-lasting effect on objects it's dipped in, or a prolonged temporary one, and while not as common as water, it is naturally found in a few non-youkai species. pegasi, for instance, have it in their blood, while gryphons have it in their spit. If i finished the obvious fluids list, unicorns have it in their slightly gross Additionally, a freshly summoned youkai is more like a peak level human. a little faster, a little more durable, able to use magic where humans would use crossbows, and with similar effectiveness. The problem is, they get stronger, but initially, a few properly equipped people with crossbows, like, thirty, would do the job.
The thing is, every youkai wants to live. I assumed that this initially gave humans enough leverage to get some to work with them, (since whether humans are a threat or not, youkai are, and free revivals are a valuable bargaining chip) and then used those to control others. Youkai aren't actively malicious either. There have been times in history when Youkai ruled, and many of them, though.
u/Bowbreaker [+1] Solitary Locust (7 days later)
Really? Harvesting sweat is more gross than harvesting spit or blood? The way that you spoilered it and the fact that it's unicorns made me sure that the hidden word would be sperm.
u/NotAHeroYet [+1] City of Angles Municipal Government (8 days later)
no, though it is more inconvenient. it was originally, at the time of spoilering, going to be pee, but i decided that's- not gross, but implausible.
there are some familiar-only species with it in pee, but there's no natural value to have it in sperm.
u/Rhamni [+1] Aspiring author (47 minutes later)
As for how to break this, can the supernatural secondary abilities generate energy? You mentioned blizzards, and freezing food is awesome. Starting with primitive tech though, heat is probably more useful. From heating a large house to forging and cooking.
Stack abilities and you can go even further. Heat generation plus telekinetic powers allows you to melt and shape tools of metal with high melting points. Even with modern technology melting tungsten is a real headache, since only a precious few alloys have a higher melting point, and they themselves are a lot of work to make, what with, you know, the high melting point.
u/NotAHeroYet [+2] City of Angles Municipal Government (an hour later)
Yes- well, maybe. it's not known if the abilities create energy, but they do work for creating heat. some, though, clearly follow conservation of energy, if oddly- taking heat from the surroundings to use later, for instance.
u/Bowbreaker [+1] Solitary Locust (7 days later)
Still a perfect and clean power source, if not an actually infinite one.
u/NotAHeroYet [+1] City of Angles Municipal Government (8 days later)
Yes, it is. I know, right off the bat, that unless things really degrade, this society will be better off when in peace than an equivalent tech level society here.
u/MugaSofer [+1] (2 hours later)
The mindless, obedient familiars are much better. I could improve my efficiency a fair bit with an obedient animal that can understand me, fit into small places/carry things, fire/trigger weapons ... I probably won't be taking over the world with this, but it's nice.
The others are just meh, unreliable living weapons that aren't linked to you in any meaningful sense (except that if you die they can't be rezzed anymore I guess.) They're just other, slightly more capable citizens (they're not psychopaths? You mention that they form social attachments to people) and the guy who summoned them is outta luck.
Oh, the weather-control thing is neat, it'd be in high demand for .. everything really. Crops, social events ...
In addition, you can kill one solely by attacking a hand, or fail to kill one by a blow that should chop off their head. For some, the blow just stops, and for others the head reattaches itself, or regrows, or the blade passes through but the head stays put.
The way this is written, I'm not sure whether this is supposed to be a universal ability of these creatures, or an example. Also, is there supposed to be something special about the hand, as a weak point?
u/NotAHeroYet [+2] City of Angles Municipal Government (2 hours later)
The mindless familiar is generally useful, hence why it's there. the living weapons are too unreliable to be used without a bonus. They may not be a catch, but they'd only be called on because others did it first, otherwise. It'd be a military exclusive tradition, i'd think.
They can form social attachments to other people. can doesn't mean will, and their personality is not neccessarily a perfect match-up, but they can develop attachments.
Basically, familiars can be killed by sufficient damage anywhere. if you tried hard enough to kill their hand, or repeated the action enough... you could kill them. if you beheaded them incompetently enough, or they were strong enough, they could survive. of course, this is assuming they didn't let the damage go through, but instinctively, instinctively, the familiar will use up energy holding together a limb, and once it's all gone they're gone too.
u/MugaSofer [+1] (3 hours later)
Ah. Like a healing factor with limited material.
They may not be a catch, but they'd only be called on because others did it first, otherwise. It'd be a military exclusive tradition, i'd think.
But it's random, right?
I mean, if it happens, sure, recruit them to whatever industry their powers suit (biased toward combat because toughness.) But it's still ultimately someone getting unlucky and having the (single-use!) ritual spit out a random encounter instead of a tool. It's like missing a limb.
u/NotAHeroYet [+1] City of Angles Municipal Government (3 hours later)
yes, and whatever the material is, using it all up is lethal even for non-lethal wounds.
It's random. It's not single use, but the result is consistently the same after the first use (and you cannot have multiple familiars). I already expected some people would have the attitude you listed, that getting a youkai is unlucky.
I meant that if the ritual only spat out a youkai 4% of the time, and did nothing otherwise, few would use it. Others would think they could tame it, and might even be right. They might also not.
u/Bowbreaker [+1] Solitary Locust (7 days later)
It's not single use, but the result is consistently the same after the first use (and you cannot have multiple familiars).
So what happens if you have a youkai and then try to summon a new familiar? Do you teleport and heal your original youkai back to you? I ask because you mentioned 3 distinct rituals for teleporting, healing and rezzing.
Others would think they could tame it, and might even be right.
Isn't taming a youkai like taming a human superhero? Seems pretty damn hard.
u/NotAHeroYet [+1] City of Angles Municipal Government (8 days later)
One of three outcomes, depending... either your youkai is dead, and the ritual fails, your youkai is alive, and it calls it to your position (but this is generally less than inefficient.), or it works- but the only documented cases of that involved severe personality alteration.
Taming a youkai is like convincing a human superhero it's in their best interests to work with you, or, conversely, to hire you. hard for an individual, but possible for any sufficiently powerful society. It requires convincing them that a slice of pie on a regular basis is better than a whole pie with a dagger in it, so to speak- that dagger will probably take the form of the next youkai, or the current ruler. Once society gets big enough, youkai will still generally be better off than humans, but the advantage will be less individually great. there may even be a human royal family, though like as not, they're puppet rulers, or only there through a perilous pile of deals, debts, and untold assumptions.
But people are idiots, and if cultists can plausibly think they can get a demon to serve their aims, without idiot ball being called, a mere youkai isn't that implausible.
u/Sagebrysh [+1] Rank 7 Pragmatist (3 hours later)
Do the youkai get their own personalities generated out of the aether somehow, or are they just you +/-5% ? If the first one, then what sort of innate personalities do they have?
If I generated a being with 95% of my memories, that had nothing else to go on, it would end up resembling me pretty heavily. Or by 95% do you mean specifically like, abstract technical knowledge and not specifically memories? (though one might argue the distinction is less clear from inside one's head).
Youkai seem cool, If I summoned one I'd try to befriend it and have it come on my adventures with me. Two heads are better then one and all that.
u/NotAHeroYet [+1] City of Angles Municipal Government (3 hours later)
Youkai get some fragment of your personality, but it's smaller then the rest, which seems to come from the aether. youkai act like humans, only not. more extreme, frequently, but not exclusively. there are moments it's like talking to your reflection, but then they say something and you fall out of sync and realize how different you are. they're probably ~10-20% you. Youkai are inconsistent, but they're generally more cautious and paranoid than humans.
abstract knowledge, facts, memories. they know it's not them though, there's something about them that rings false. memories feel less like something that happened to them, and more like a passage they read once in a book.
they know they're not you, their personality can be different... the nurture may be the same, perhaps, but the nature is unavoidably divergent, and the nurture is likely as well. the personality might be sampled from other, extant humans, or it might be created on it's own, or might might be how your nature and nurture change with the new body.
u/Bowbreaker [+1] Solitary Locust (7 days later)
Is there anything at all that keeps a youkai and their summoner together? A reason they shouldn't go their different paths immediately after summoning? The only thing I can think of is that the summoner has the ability to, for the price of some time and money, teleport them back and to resurrect them if needed.
u/NotAHeroYet [+1] City of Angles Municipal Government (8 days later)
Yes, and that's leverage. Restoration is a longevity treatment- it prevents most of the wear and tear we associate with aging, so it is a life extension that way too. If used optimally, it can add one human's lifespan in peak health to your lifespan
I would expect in serious war, bringing them near one another so they know how to retrieve others is useful, but outside of that, there's not a lot of value.
the master can summon the youkai into all kinds of dangerous situations, so the youkai has that to worry about- especially if, either out of malice or misdeeds, someone convinces them the youkai needs to be put down, and the master summons it to a deathtrap. Lots of youkai that part on neutral terms later turn around and kill their summoners later because of this.
This incentivizes masters to keep it near them, so they can be prepared and so it doesn't expect betrayal, or decide to kill you in a fit of paranoia.
Later on, there will be chemical weapons that, if neccessary, and if successfully used in an ambush, will kill almost any youkai. they also have been documented to burn down cities and set sand, water, and ash on fire. But at this point, they aren't known.