18 KiB
[RT] Unsong - Chapter 1: Dark Satanic Mills
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Author: u/gbear605 history’s greatest story*
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Score: 46
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Created: 2016-01-03T21:57:37
Post:
Comments:
u/scruiser [+13] CYOA (8 hours later)
Did anyone else realize the implication of the fact that it is "dangerous" to pronounce a name yourself instead of using a scroll, yet names can be pronounced by minimum wage workers in mass working in cubicles? Either the "dangerous" part is bullshit to give an extra excuse for enforcing the current copyright setup (likely), or the minimum wage workers are working in an unsafe environment (less likely, but still plausible given the right economic incentives). I find it sad that both seem plausible.
u/alexanderwales [+8] Time flies like an arrow (9 hours later)
We don't know what all the other names of God do yet, but this seems like one of those things that's unsafe until proven otherwise. They're trying to find new spells without knowing what those new spells do. Unless all spells are universally usable without any precautions or flaws, or unless they can predict effects, it's dangerous to go hunting for new spells. What happens if the next spell you find begins producing huge amounts of carbon monoxide? Or levels the city around you?
u/Vebeltast [+12] You should have expected the bayesian inquisition! (15 hours later)
- The objection the police officer has to speaking a name directly starts with the classic copyright argument. "It's dangerous" seems to be very nearly an afterthought. Agreed with by the idea that half the people in the office are doing it on a daily basis. My guess is that names are approximately as dangerous as power tools: if you know what you're doing you can use them for hours a day for your entire life without ever getting injured, if you don't know what you're doing they will tear your limbs off and/or set your house on fire.
- From the effect we see when he finds the new name, it appears that a name may not do anything unless you speak it with intent. Here, he accidentally says a name - same conditions as when randomly attempting names - and instead of invoking its effect, it simply tells him what it does.
- I'm not sure how copyright will actually work in this occurrence. Can it be argued that "meh meh meh meh meh meh" is enough of an addition for Aaron to own it himself and that he was off the clock at that point?
u/scruiser [+6] CYOA (17 hours later)
Can it be argued that "meh meh meh meh meh meh" is enough of an addition for Aaron to own it himself and that he was off the clock at that point?
The company will try to claim they own it, even if they don't know the name or if they have no valid claim (the probably have some type of waver they make their employees sign guaranteeing that they will own any names the employee comes up with, even off the clock). However, my impression is that Aaron may not actually try to copyright it, but instead use its raw power for himself directly and not tell anyone the secret name. I imagine if the name is powerful enough, he will wipe out the company's records (just to minimize their chances of guessing at what he did, or if they always record everything just in case a situation like this comes up.)
u/alexanderwales [+5] Time flies like an arrow (21 hours later)
From the effect we see when he finds the new name, it appears that a name may not do anything unless you speak it with intent. Here, he accidentally says a name - same conditions as when randomly attempting names - and instead of invoking its effect, it simply tells him what it does.
I guess my reading was that the Name he discovered grants self-awareness and that this awareness is what he granted to himself. Compare:
It stood there for a moment, a crude statue, and then a voice from Heaven spoke a Name, and the clay came to life, lumbered into a standing position. It spoke a second Name, and the clay’s eyes opened, and within them were innocence and curiosity and the capacity to wonder and learn. And it spoke a third Name, and it was as if a light went on inside of it, and the dust became aware that it was dust and in so doing was dust no longer.
And the effect he experiences:
I was struck by a wave of holy light. The heavens opened and poured into me. My soul rang like a bell.
This would imply that he was the beneficiary of the Name and that he did cast it by saying it.
u/Vebeltast [+3] You should have expected the bayesian inquisition! (21 hours later)
Huh. I parsed the "it" in "And it spoke a third Name" as the voice from Heaven speaking a third time, and that it was targeted on the golem => man. Which implied to me that there was a targeting step, which would have to be somehow intent-based, and that the word spoken without a target does something else entirely. That's potentially much less interesting than your reading, though. Interesting.
u/PeridexisErrant [+2] put aside fear for courage, and death for life (3 days later)
Or targetless words target the speaker... which really could be dangerous.
u/Transfuturist [+2] Carthago delenda est. (a day later)
I think this effect was only divine revelation of the nature of the name. They can make golems with the first two names, the third was implied to make the difference between golem and human/person. Aaron is already a human.
If the revelation of a name being transcendental is so undetectable, I would wonder how employees wouldn't be able to steal all of the real names.
u/alexanderwales [+1] Time flies like an arrow (a day later)
Aaron is already human, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Name would have absolutely zero effect. It might be something like sending a duplicate INSERT statement and getting back a violation of primary key constraint error. No, nothing gets changed in the database, but you still get an error back as a result. The light of Heaven goes into a hollow form and gives it self-awareness, or the light of Heaven attempts to go into a form and makes the soul ring like a bell as celestial energy attempts to fill a vessel that's already full.
I mean, it will almost certainly be settled in the next chapter, but I don't think this chapter makes it clear whether speaking a Name is the same as invoking a Name. The chapter exclusively uses the former in all contexts.
u/Transfuturist [+1] Carthago delenda est. (a day later)
If it was invoked, what was it targeting? Did Aaron just make Countenance's computer system self-aware? Not quite dangerous unless it's given the second name.
Anyway, there was clearly some divine revelation going on, or Aaron would have no idea what the name was. Perhaps upon type errors names return their documentation. :L
u/darkflagrance [+1] (21 hours later)
Even if saying a name initially has no effect other than to let the minimum-wage worker know what it does, that will still eventually present problems if the spell does things like instantly produce enough gold to devalue the currency of nations, drives all of the invoker's enemies insane, or turns the invoker into a winged immortal. It would be hard to disincentivize a minimum-wage worker from paying a $70 fine for potential world domination or short-sightedly plunging the world into chaos.
u/Vebeltast [+1] You should have expected the bayesian inquisition! (21 hours later)
Maybe this is an instructive X-risk story and there's a reason the apocalypse started right about then? Because, you're right, if a word gives you, for example, the ability to teleport, your employee is gone.
u/Sgeo [+1] (2 days later)
Reminds me of http://www.scp-wiki.net/visionsofabetterworld , starting with
The decision was made. Foundation researchers finally received permission to conduct a large-scale system of exposure to SCP-028.
(Also pinging /u/darkflagrance)
u/ulyssessword [+2] (23 hours later)
Or levels the city around you?
I wonder how they found the Wrathful Name...
u/None [+1] (2 days later)
Meticulous records of candidate Names held off-site? It's a good thing there's no Forgetful Name, or they'd be wiping minds at the end of every shift
u/Magnap [+1] (7 days later)
The newest chapter reveals that the Confounding Name exists, which makes me wonder why it isn't being used for that purpose. Maybe it's too expensive?
u/None [+2] (7 days later)
Or maybe forcing people to wipe their minds regularly as part of a contractual obligation was deemed unethical, or the Confounding Name is indiscriminate.
u/Magnap [+1] (7 days later)
Absolutely! Though wrt. legal matters, the Name-owners appear to have a lot of influence, so that reduces the probability slightly (it's still a very good reason). One more possibility: new researchers (into patterns that narrow the search space) can be hired from the inside, where their exposure to large amounts of data will give them a certain intuition.
u/None [+3] (13 hours later)
My assumption was that the computer was connected to a network tracking the list of names being said. So if something happened at some point (like say the entire building exploding) it could be tracked and the name responsible could be found.
u/scruiser [+5] CYOA (17 hours later)
So it is safe for the company, because they can get their name, even if everyone dies? I was referring to the people working in the building, but I suppose what you pointed out is what the company actually cares about. What is life insurance for a building's worth of people compared to another valuable, patent-able name.
u/None [+7] (23 minutes later)
I suppose being fined would probably serve as a cover story to Aaron's inevitable quitting, but surely the Countenance would be recording the words spoken for verification purposes and think to listen to Aaron's last day's recordings if he suddenly started using powers in a flashy way.
I would guess the first item on the agenda is to ensure that doesn't happen, but Aaron seems sure that Countenance wouldn't think of it.
u/FishNetwork [+5] (a day later)
If I had to guess, the relevant parts are "Palo Alto" +
I incanted: “ROS-AILE-KAPHILUTON-MIRAKOI-KALANIEMI-TSHANA-KAI-KAI-EPHSANDER-GALISDO-TAHUN…” and just as I finished, my timer reached zero and told me I was finished, for today, free until tomorrow morning crashed down on me and I started the same thing all over again.
“Meh,” I said. “Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh. Meh.”
California law is that employees own any IP they create on their own time, using their own materials. So, the character 'discovered' the completed phrase.
Also, I can imagine that any recording system would be tied to the timer. If I have to audit an employee, I want their recordings broken into 1 chunk / 1 word anything else would be really annoying to audit.
u/WarmSummer [+5] (3 hours later)
Perhaps he plans to keep coming back for a few days to avoid that?
u/SvalbardCaretaker [+1] Mouse Army (9 hours later)
There are countries eg. germany where video surveillance of working places is under strict regulations. Maaaayybee in this alternate universe there are similar injuctions in place in the US?
u/gbear605 [+5] history’s greatest story (38 seconds later)
The cover page for Book 1 is located at http://unsongbook.com/book-i-genesis/
u/ArgentStonecutter [+3] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (19 minutes later)
A good start on the second Kaballist SF story I've ever read.
[The other being Kiln People by David Brin]
[well third if you include Snow Crash, but really that's pre-Kaballist]
u/Aretii [+7] Cultist of Cthugha (48 minutes later)
Ted Chiang wrote a very good short story called "Seventy-two Letters."
u/ArgentStonecutter [+6] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (59 minutes later)
OOOOH. snagged and Kindled.
Will read that shortly.
u/Transfuturist [+3] Carthago delenda est. (7 hours later)
Kabbalism is top underexploited aesthetic. YHWH was Lovecraftian before Lovecraft was a thing, look at Ezekiel and Revelations for example. I've never seen a Revelations fiction that uses the imagery in Revelations literally.
There was one short story where
Sumeria is another underexploited aesthetic, but we have Snow Crash so it's okay.
u/Eryemil [+8] (8 hours later)
u/Transfuturist [+6] Carthago delenda est. (8 hours later)
u/ArgentStonecutter [+3] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (13 hours later)
Technically Buddhist rather than Kabbalist, no?
u/Eryemil [+2] (13 hours later)
No idea, it's been ages since I've read it. I just vaguely remembered the name of it so I linked it for him.
u/DCarrier [+2] (an hour later)
Does anyone know how the copyright would work for that? My best guess is that it's a joint copyright, since neither would have come up with the name alone.
u/alexanderwales [+8] Time flies like an arrow (2 hours later)
I would guess that the author is under contract and therefore owns no copyright. This is the same general agreement that governs things like writing for television or videogames (I've done the latter and signed such a contract).
Edit: The whole idea of being able to copyright a sequence of letters is legally dubious under our current intellectual property frameworks, of course.
u/DCarrier [+3] (2 hours later)
Writing is a creative endeavor. What he was doing wasn't. I don't think they'd have the same contract.
The whole idea of being able to copyright a sequence of letters is legally dubious under our current intellectual property frameworks, of course.
I feel like a patent would be more appropriate. But they'd certainly have some form of intellectual property rights. They'd write the law to fit the needs.
u/alexanderwales [+1] Time flies like an arrow (2 hours later)
Same thing applies to computer programming (though I don't think I've ever been asked to sign a contract like that, but that might be because my company signs those). That was a plot point in the show Silicon Valley.
u/DCarrier [+1] (2 hours later)
But this isn't programming. With programming, you can use ideas that you came up with there and should have given them for yourself. You can't do that here. They just randomly generate a list of words and you say them and see what happens. If you're a genius and you work out a name on your own, they're not paying you to say it.
u/alexanderwales [+3] Time flies like an arrow (3 hours later)
You can't copyright ideas in the first place, just expressions of those ideas.
The whole problem is that we have to posit a counterfactual legal system where it's possible to copyright a word. The closest we have are illegal numbers, but no one is really claiming that those numbers are copyrightable (well, people building strawmen are). So in order for a word to have copyright applied to it, we need copyright to mean something other than what we mean right now when we say copyright.
So there's no real way of knowing unless Unsong descends into the arcana of a counterfactual legal system, which I don't really imagine that it will. If it were our legal system it's very likely that he would not have legal right to the spell, not only because he'd be going up against someone with a lot more money, but because he was using the company's intellectual property and physical property.
u/Anderkent [+2] (2 hours later)
Yep, same as it works in programming and lots of other trades. If you're being paid to create something, you don't own that thing - whoever paid you for it does.
u/FeepingCreature [+6] GCV Literally The Entire Culture (3 hours later)
He was six words off work when he discovered it.
That's what makes it interesting.
u/None [+1] (5 hours later)
Excited!
I hope we have the protagonist disrupting the status quo a bit, seeing some nice ripples, and getting a fun exploration of this numerological and gnostic magic system
u/ZeroNihilist [+1] (11 hours later)
This is a really intriguing setting and I love the telepathic whale puns. I'll be following this one for sure.
u/lucyfur919 [+1] Chaos Legion (13 hours later)
Is it possible to enjoy this if you know nothing about Judaism? I like what I see so far, but I'm pretty sure I've missed a lot of references.
u/gbear605 [+1] history’s greatest story (14 hours later)
Knowing Scott, he'll definitely make sure that it is.