12 KiB
Chapter 11: Drive the Just Man into Barren Climes
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Author: u/whitehatguy *
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URL: http://unsongbook.com/chapter-11-drive-the-just-man-into-barren-climes/
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Score: 39
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Created: 2016-03-13T17:40:56
Post:
Comments:
u/ulyssessword [+13] (2 hours later)
Random theory: We are currently in the "Aaron" portion of the story, based on the kabbalistic "rn" messenger archetype. Later, we will reach the "Smith" portion (theory below), then the "Teller" portion, for calling down dangerous celestial energies.
Halfway-independent of the above, I think "Smith" has the kabbalistic meaning of "one who knows the value of things" which we get from Adam Smith.
u/LiteralHeadCannon [+5] (2 hours later)
The "invisible hand" that Smith uses as a symbol of the force of individuals following incentives evokes a popular vision of God. How does this relate to Moloch?
u/DataPacRat [+5] Amateur Immortalist (31 minutes later)
I wish I knew more people to whom I could send that second paragraph, on 7-11, and get smiles from.
u/chaosmosis [+5] and with strange aeons, even death may die (a day later)
She threw on an old t-shirt – one she had gotten at a theodicy conference a few years ago, with the motto WHO WATCHES THE WATCHMAKER? on the front –
WANT.
u/whitehatguy [+2] (a day later)
Right? I would throw down good money for that.
u/chaosmosis [+2] and with strange aeons, even death may die (a day later)
Fanart. Note that you can change the shirt's color very easily, if you want to see what other choices would have looked like. White is actually surprisingly good, generally it is difficult to make good looking novelty white t-shirts.
u/chaosmosis [+1] and with strange aeons, even death may die (a day later)
Also, for future people, although I didn't use this: http://imgur.com/IMPdXR4.
u/GlueBoy [+5] anti-skub (43 minutes later)
Should continue to put the title of the story in the submission, no?
u/None [+2] (20 minutes later)
A FRIEND
Hmm... Wonder if this friend is anyone/anything we already know?
u/Escapement [+9] Ankh-Morpork City Watch (32 minutes later)
Theorization in the comment thread has Sarah herself as the friend.
I am not entirely sure I buy it.
Guesses as to the identity of Sarah:
- Ana or Aaron, or some future ally of theirs, having timetravelled back in time and used invisibility to arrange these shenanigans, and therefore has the predictive powers ascribed here by being from a future where it was true.
- Sarah the internet which was collectively ensouled and is busy becoming a superintelligence, and is using Ana and Aaron as a distraction.
- Sarah the computer individually
- Alvarez or the Comet King or Sohu or someone else in the giant "mysterious powers and not-fully-explained-backstory" list.
u/SoundLogic2236 [+4] (40 minutes later)
I don't think it can be Sarah. Even assuming that the vital name made Sarah independent, which I'm skeptical of (since Sarah didn't get the animal soul), there hasn't been enough time to get very many names. Most names wouldn't be useful in breaking into an unsong detention facility. Three names which are perfect for it coming out of a small set of random names is too much. This would have to be someone who ALREADY has a lot of names, not merely someone with the ability to find names. Sarah the internet would qualify potentially, but has other issues
u/alexanderwales [+2] Time flies like an arrow (an hour later)
As a counterpoint, if Sarah was independent I don't think that too little time has passed in order for it to purchase computing power and vastly increase its ability to churn through names. So it might be that the set of new names is very, very large.
But we don't know to what extent the ensouling worked, or how it worked.
u/SoundLogic2236 [+3] (an hour later)
Sarah wouldn't know the vital name, even if it can still be used. We don't know exactly what the vital name targets, and neither would Sarah even if independent-humans had the vital name applied to them and didn't know how to apply it to other things or what the exact requirements of human involvement were. So even if Sarah managed to get a lot of computing power, Sarah might not know how to move itself onto the bigger cluster.
u/Iconochasm [+1] (a day later)
This is my problem with the theory. And more generally, we know that Sarah can detect Names, but have no reason to think she's capable of actively deciding to use them. Even possessing a soul, you'd still need the right kind of software.
u/SoundLogic2236 [+2] (a day later)
Well, I suspect the Animal Soul Name would count as the 'right kind of software', but no one used the Animal Soul Name on Sarah. And a computer with the Animal Soul Name and the Divine Soul Name but not the Moral Soul Name sounds really bad. But without the Animal Soul or Moral Soul it seems like Sarah would be rather lacking in drives that aren't explicitly programmed in. Animal Soul might give you self-preservation, and moral soul might make you helpful, but in the absence of either of those why do anything (except the 'software soul', but that just says 'run llul in a non-consequentialist way')
u/Izeinwinter [+2] (18 hours later)
In favor of "Sarah" the internet, someone, somewhere will have tried the animal and moral names on computer hardware hooked up to the net. Just to see if that made for better robots or voice recognition systems. So, Aaron might merely have completed a process begun by others.
u/DataPacRat [+2] Amateur Immortalist (33 minutes later)
Now, who do we already know who has a soul, has had the opportunity to research new Names, and access to Sarah's desktop? :)
u/SometimesATroll [+2] (34 minutes later)
Of course we know her. Sarah has been a part of the story for several chapters, now.
The real question is whether Sarah is actually a friend or not.
u/None [+10] (an hour later)
If you ask a computer if they're a friend, they're, like, obligated to tell you. It's in the Constitution.
u/itisike [+9] Dragon Army (3 hours later)
/r/shittyAIriskresearch
u/Frommerman [+1] (5 hours later)
Why is this not a thing? :(
u/itisike [+1] Dragon Army (5 hours later)
You can create it if you have an abundance of time and are ready to use it for the greater good.
u/itisike [+1] Dragon Army (5 hours later)
u/None [+1] (a day later)
You mean /r/legaladvice?
u/whitehatguy [+5] (5 hours later)
Don't anthropomorphize computers. They hate that.
u/LiteralHeadCannon [+4] (2 hours later)
Noted friendly AI Friend Computer.
u/LiteralHeadCannon [+2] (51 minutes later)
Kind of late on this guess, but what if the Vital Name only works once per user, and Aaron and Ana count as the same user?
u/ulyssessword [+9] (an hour later)
My theory is that a soul can only be split three ways. Aaron 's is him, Ana, and Sarah. Ana's is her, Aaron and (whatshername, from the first marriage test).
I may be mixing my mythology, but I got it from Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
Edit: my other theory is that the Name ensouled "computer-kind" in one go, and that the original use ensouled "humanity" in the same way.
u/UltraRedSpectrum [+1] (2 hours later)
But didn't they try to get Bill Dodds' computer to say some names, to rule out the possibility of it already being ensouled? That seems like strong evidence against all computers having souls.
u/callmebrotherg [+7] now posting as /u/callmesalticidae (2 hours later)
First Adam was created, then Eve was created from Adam's rib, and finally the rest of humanity is descended from their coupling.
Assuming that this is correct in Unsong's universe, at least in its broad strokes, then that means that future ensouled computers will need to be derived from Sarah, perhaps by copying her software and transplanting it to new computers.
u/ulyssessword [+2] (3 hours later)
I had forgotten about that.
Two possible ideas: something klipah related happened, whether due to to a new OS in general, the harddrive being encrypted, the audio codec, or something else. They should have run Bill Dodd's computer with Llull long enough to see if it could discover a name.
Llull only detects new names and the feeling that goes with them. All computers share one soul (until new ones are manufactured) so it was not a new discovery. They should have had Sarah search for the moon-finding Name again.
u/callmebrotherg [+1] now posting as /u/callmesalticidae (3 hours later)
Llull only detects new names and the feeling that goes with them.
UNSONG already knew at least one of the names that Llull produces, though.
u/thecommexokid [+2] (4 hours later)
...according to Aaron's completely unconfirmed internal-monologue speculation about how they might have found him.
u/callmebrotherg [+3] now posting as /u/callmesalticidae (5 hours later)
Are there any other possibilities that are as likely as that one?
u/LiteralHeadCannon [+1] (3 hours later)
It's stunning to me, by the way, that Llull doesn't have more of a random element to avoid precisely that.
u/callmebrotherg [+6] now posting as /u/callmesalticidae (4 hours later)
Why? Llull wasn't designed to evade detection by Unsong.
u/Iconochasm [+1] (a day later)
My impression is that it was essentially a thought-exercise.
u/ulyssessword [+1] (4 hours later)
Alternate theory: the feeling doesn't trigger off of being the first soul to speak a name, it triggers off of independently discovering it. Bill's computer didn't "discover" the Name because the namespace was too small.
u/Iconochasm [+1] (a day later)
On a tangent, has anyone yet guessed if "Bill Dodd" is a reference to William H. Stoddard? He doesn't have the same level of fame as the other references, but Bill Dodd could totally be a younger expy of him. Can't believe I didn't notice that before.
u/protagnostic [+1] (9 hours later)
What if you can only ensoul something that belongs to you?
u/chaosmosis [+1] and with strange aeons, even death may die (a day later)
What the heck?
Time and chance, according to the Book of Ecclesiastes, happeneth to us all.
Had Aaron screwed up? What had happened on his trip to Stanford? Had he told Dodd? Was it just a coincidence?
Scott pls.
u/MaddoScientisto [+1] (3 days later)
I completely missed this chapter because it didn't have unsong in the title, I only noticed because two intermissions back to back seemed suspicious
u/RMcD94 [+1] (24 days later)
Why did she not answer her telepathy if she wasn't stressed (she was merely walking home?)
u/AmeteurOpinions [+1] Finally, everyone was working together. (7 hours later)
u/MugaSofer [+3] (18 hours later)
We'll see.
A lot of readers are pointing to Uriel or, somehow, Aaron as the culprit. Certainly our heroine doesn't seem to be anthropomorphising it.