10 KiB
Rationality-themed Super Mario Bros. level
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Author: u/None *
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/4bv7fw/rationalitythemed_super_mario_bros_level/
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Score: 6
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Created: 2016-03-25T04:26:36
Post:
EDIT: An illustrated walkthrough is now here for those who can't play it directly.
(This is not exactly fiction, but it is a rationality-based fan work; hope it's okay to put this here)
So there's a game for the Wii U, Super Mario Maker, that lets you make and upload your own Super Mario Bros. levels. I was looking for a theme for a new level a few days ago, and I thought of HPMoR, and then I decided to somehow illustrate something from the Sequences. The result is this:
Rational Mario: Taboo Tradeoffs (Level code 58CA-0000-0202-F8EC )
The level is very easy to complete, but it has two setpieces that illustrate the concept and punish you for the wrong choice. (Disclaimer: the second setpiece is a quite a bit looser, more metaphorical fit than the first)
I think there's a moderately high chance that no one who sees post wastes their time with Nintendo games will have access to a copy of Super Mario Maker. Nevertheless, I'm not going to explain anything further or show images that will spoil the payoff (yet) explanation now posted, except for one request: If you choose correctly on the second setpiece, play the level again with the wrong choice.
Comments:
u/Dragonheart91 [+3] (9 hours later)
I don't even have the game. Got a better shot of the level or explanation?
u/None [+1] (11 hours later)
Screenshots and spoilers coming later today.
u/None [+1] (23 hours later)
Description and images here
u/None [+2] (23 hours later)
Okay, so here's a spolierified walkthrough of the level.
http://i.imgur.com/pMouuET.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WPMCWPe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cPf7bHR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pIZAVoM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5E2NVW3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/X2Kl3kE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7tcvb3K.jpg
u/makoConstruct [+4] Praises of Nayru, FLI Worldbuilding (23 hours later)
The first part was kinda reasonable but the Presumably it's impossible to throw a yoshi through a one way door?
u/None [+1] (a day later)
I did say the first part was better than the second in the OP. :) From a level design perspective, you're supposed to use what you learned in the first part to make you question your tactics in the second part. The second part was mostly for laughs.
Presumably it's impossible to throw a yoshi through a one way door?
Curse you for bringing this up! I discovered earlier today that if you jump at the right time with enough momentum, it is possible to propel the first Yoshi to solid ground and save all three. (Although the third one becomes a Cape Feather since the game doesn't let you have more than two Yoshis accounted for, so utility-wise they're mostly equivalent)
I have a revision with the brick floor extended several blocks through the One-Way Doors that I will replace the current version with when this thread is old enough to be disregarded; I'd've done it before, but then the original link, that someone could already have Bookmarked, would be a 404.
u/Cariyaga [+9] Kyubey did nothing wrong (a day later)
I'm not sure that's necessary. Being able and willing to do the impossible is a virtue, too.
u/Transfuturist [+3] Carthago delenda est. (a day later)
I believe on one of Ross O'Donovan's levels played by the Game Grumps, there was an entire level based around being forced to kill Yoshis to progress. I think it was called 'You Are A Monster'. Apparently one of the hardcore gamers, I think the one that playtests Ross's levels, managed to get through the entire level without killing a single Yoshi. If you've seen the level, that's impressive.
u/abcd_z [+2] (a day later)
I discovered earlier today that if you jump at the right time with enough momentum, it is possible to propel the first Yoshi to solid ground and save all three.
Hah! Choosing a third option, for the win!
u/makoConstruct [+2] Praises of Nayru, FLI Worldbuilding (a day later)
I have a revision with the brick floor extended several blocks through the One-Way Doors that I will replace the current version with
Awwww, Third Ways are cool though!
u/Transfuturist [+2] Carthago delenda est. (a day later)
Disabling the third option makes your level objectively worse. The second tradeoff was arbitrary and relies on meta information.
u/Drexer [+5] (a day later)
Ok, so watching the whole structure of the level some things jump out at me. The first two biggest problems:
Lives are not valuable in Mario Maker - Quoting superbunnyhop, "Here's a Mario Maker tip, the one-ups don't matter. The 100 Mario challenge gives you so many lives that throwing you any more on the pile doesn't do anything. (...) put a power-up there with it." so there's no value whatsoever in the 1st choice.
Players do not attribute values for Yoshi by default, so there is no taboo in letting them fall towards their death. It wasn't that special in the old days of Mario World romhacks when ProtonJon got famous by doing it repeatedly, and it's even less nowadays.
So to try and work with the concept(and because I lack ownership of an WiiU and this game), here's what I think should be the kind of concept for a more "rational" level.
Get a clear objective for the player to fight for and include it in the title. For instance: "Get the flagtop", and add reinforcement checkpoints for that. If between each challenge there is a checkpoint flag where only the correct behaviour leads to, but they are not 100% punished for failing it(as in, the wrong path does not allow them to activate it, but allows them to continue) then the player will try to accomplish that goal in every iterate of the problem.
Get more phases for the level. Two data points do not serve for fitting any function(well, you fit a line to it, but it's certainly over-fitted). If you just use two steps then nobody will learn anything for it, it will just look like an unfair and random trap.
Attribute value to the things you want your player to lose. Show them that the jump towards the flagpole/checkpoint is only feasible with a Yoshi, then give them the choice towards keeping/letting go of the Yoshi and then invert their choice by level-design. This still does not align completely with the concept of the taboo trade-off, but it's better than the initial version.
Try to really temp the players with things they find highly valuable. A path with a cape where they end up having to face a lot of projectile enemies versus a path done by sacrificing themselves into small Mario and where at the end they get a mushroom is a far better trial for the players. Almost everyone will want to go for the cape unless you train them well beforehand.
u/GrecklePrime [+1] (10 hours later)
I have access to a copy. I'll try it later today.
u/Cariyaga [+1] Kyubey did nothing wrong (13 hours later)
Pfff, if I had access to a copy I'd play it. Don't think so little of the rationalist-community as to expect us to not enjoy nintendo games! Looking forward to the description of the level though.
u/None [+1] (23 hours later)
Description posted! Description and images here