scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/4c6y7v.md

[BST][Q] How would magic change society?

• Author: u/space_fountain *

• URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/4c6y7v/bstq_how_would_magic_change_society/

• Score: 2

• Created: 2016-03-27T19:59:45

Post:

I guess this is kind of the opposite question from one that I saw on this sub a while ago where the op was interested in limiting a stories scope so he didn't get overwhelmed with change. I want to look at what would happen if magic suddenly got introduced to humanity under the following conditions.

• Inherited: not everyone can do magic not even most
• Overpowering: a single mage could comfortably take out an entire nation of non mages
• Better: mages are smarter and faster than there non-mage counterparts.

I think the most important part of this scenario would be the ration of mage's to non-mages. If almost everyone is a mage things would probably be fine. There would be some adjustment as certain parts of our conventional society became no longer necessary and others grew to replace them, but ignoring what might be a violent transitional period everything would end up mostly the same. On the other end we have a situation where mages number in the 100's in which case we might just end up with them going off somewhere and keeping mostly to their own company. The bad zone in my mind is between 1 and 80 percent of the population as mage's. Here we get violence and quite likely a certain amount of displacement of the current power groups.

Comments:

u/darkflagrance [+8] (32 minutes later)

Specify your magic. Teleportation circles and creation of pocket dimensions are going to have different effects than say, giving everyone a death note.

Even if everyone was a mage, the ones who can mindrape other people into doing their bidding, stop time, and tell the future have huge advantages over the ones who can only fireball or shoot lightning. Old privilege and hierarchy will be completely overthrown by the new order.

u/space_fountain [+1] (51 minutes later)

Sorry I was trying to be generic, but I'm not particularly good at it. Part of it is that I'm struggling with coming up with a system that meets my needs especially because the actual capabilities of any magic system are not going to show up for decades after it appears on the world stage. Think about what would happen if some force on a similar level of importance to electricity suddenly appeared.

To make a long story short though I'm thinking localized changes to the laws of physics without allowing for violation of any of the conservation laws or causality, but most of that isn't actually going to be possible without the aid of tech. As to what an unaided human can manage without practice. Lifting stuff up at a distance. Say a couple of meters, with similar levels of energy used as actually lifting said object up by hand. Disrupting complicated electronics and from a significant distance. Surviving in environment that a normal person couldn't manage, high radiation, maybe without air. Making biology stop working or maybe just lowering the activation energy of chemical reactions in an area such that everything organic bursts into flames. The ability to essentially split the mages mind and send part of it off to do the action without human intervention, though this would start to get into the territory of mage tech that shouldn't show up right, right away.

In my mind everyone with the genes gets a the same basic set of powers, but practice is a thing as is technological aids.

Biggest limitation is attention and numbers. Generally two mages will wipe out a single mage every time.

u/darkflagrance [+2] (an hour later)

There are several technologies you can look at as analogues for a magic suddenly discovered or introduced: Electricity and oil required infrastructural support from society's elites to make possible. Only those with access to money and the tech to exploit them could benefit from them initially.

Birth control dramatically changed the structure of the family, human relationships, and had broad-reaching economic and demographic effects on society. Powerful interest groups and governments still attempt to limit aspects of it ranging from birth control to abortion.

Although trading in drugs is illegal, the flow of resources that having access to their source allows drives organized crime and long-distance international networks.

The rise of the tech industry led to a new culture of professionals skilled in information technology. They developed their own business culture and style of dress, and became accepted as well-paid professionals.

Hoverboards and jetpacks have long been a dream of many that reality has failed to make legal. People still build their own drones as hobbies. The government used to adopt a laissez-faire attitude to them but has begun to crack down. Although technically everybody in the US has access to superpowers in the form of guns via the bill of rights, the actual legality of carrying a firearm varies regionally. Every time a mass murder occurs involving firearms, there is a strong movement to further restrict their use and access. The same might hold true for both inherited powers and those gained via tech.

What is the introduction of magic most analogical to? There are more histories of innovation than those I have listed.

u/space_fountain [+1] (an hour later)

I guess part of my thinking here is examining the effects of a tech revolution that by birth only a small percentage of people could actually take advantage of. Right now any innate ability an individual human has is incredibly limited, on the other hand maybe it's not innate ability that maters, but I just think it would result in an interesting dynamic. People are generally good, but how would they react if suddenly 30 percent of the population was better than everyone else in a very real and material way.

Maybe it's similar to the situation we already have with wealth for that matter.

u/darkflagrance [+3] (an hour later)

We already have superstar athletes, genius scientists, people who can sing like angels, but since their abilities don't allow them to conquer the world or commit mass murder, we accept them within the variation of human society. Those who are sociopathic and cunning enough to organize murder-cults or shoot up schools we deal with harshly. If mages are just "athletes", people would adjust. On the other hand, if they could make bids for control of society, they'd have to somehow avoid fighting the already established, highly effective military and security apparatus established by certain world governments for fighting terrorists, drug traffickers, and dissidents.

u/andor3333 [+0] (a day later)

GATTACA is a good movie on that topic. Not magic though, genetic engineering. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177/

u/ulyssessword [+2] (an hour later)

It depends on how homogeneous the magic is. Are the powers unique to the individual (most superhero settings) are there several sets of powers (Avatar, Mistborn) or else is there only one type of magic (Harry Potter, Ra, and many others)?

In the first option, individual mages would become literally irreplaceable in many places. For example, a weather-controller could produce billions of dollars of economic gain, but also a huge upheaval when they die or retire.

The third option is just a special case of the second, where n = 1. They could become another force in the economy, like plumbers or doctors. If one fire-mage quits/dies, then you can just get another one to replace them.

u/ArgentStonecutter [+2] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (2 hours later)

It might be worthwhile to read Ra.

u/space_fountain [+1] (3 hours later)

Ra was indeed a great work and thank for the link. I need to force more people to read it. I wonder how much difference an inherited magic system more similar to Harry Potter would make though.

u/space_fountain [+1] (3 hours later)

Also though I know it might not be the best thing to write I want to see more of the first few days of magic especially if magic leaps into existence already useful.

u/ArgentStonecutter [+2] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (3 hours later)

The introduction to Larry Niven's "Theory and Practice of Teleportation" is also useful.

u/ArgentStonecutter [+2] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (4 hours later)

Overpowering: a single mage could comfortably take out an entire nation of non mages

This is a problematic requirement. I don't think you'd end up with any kind of surviving civilization if any significant number of people got that kind of power, right off the bat. Each mage would be an existential threat, and even with only a hundred or so the odds of at least one going off the deep end just gets too high. This is the Marvel/DC universe, except without the plot holes that keep the supervillains super-dumb.

u/nerdguy1138 [+1] GNU Terry Pratchett (9 hours later)

I know I keep beating this dead horse, but please, please read [Inviolate] (https://m.fanfiction.net/s/5536346/1/Inviolate)

great explanation for the idiot ball.

u/ArgentStonecutter [+1] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (12 hours later)

Now we just need an explanation for the idiot ball in Harry Potter.

u/nerdguy1138 [+2] GNU Terry Pratchett (12 hours later)

I'm a fanfic reader, not a miracle-worker!

That said, check out "lily's changes" on ffnet. A fix-fic, but I thought it was pretty good.

Or how about "harry potter and afterlife inc". He's been dying repeatedly this whole time and wrecking Death's stats.

u/ArgentStonecutter [+1] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (7 days later)

I've finished the latter, and I've started the former, and really I'm not talking about the idiot characters so much as the whole world is carrying the idiot ball.

u/space_fountain [+1] (19 hours later)

Might be right, though I think an angle that might save things is if other mages had a strong counter. So the existing order collapses, but especially with a decent percentage of mage's to common people civilization doesn't quite collapse. Normal people just aren't worth anything in conflict any more or really most things.

u/ArgentStonecutter [+1] Emergency Mustelid Hologram (19 hours later)

I don't see technological civilization surviving any high intensity conflict. It's got too many interdependent systems. Even without tossing in magic, there's a lot of asymmetric technologies that could knock things over coming down the pipeline.

u/serge_cell [+2] (3 days later)

That is essentialy one of the possible routes of technological singularity. Transitional stage would likely be chaotic, but stable state unpredictable in principle.

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