8.8 KiB
[MK] Bouletcorp: Sabers & Light
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Author: u/None *
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Score: 29
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Created: 2016-04-14T08:10:32
Post:
Comments:
u/cretan_bull [+11] (13 minutes later)
I haven't seen Disney's Star Wars so I can't comment on how it was depicted in the film, but the modified lightsaber doesn't seem unreasonable; it's just a crossguard. Obviously it would require a somewhat modified fighting style, but it's certainly not obviously useless or impractical. The danger to the user is probably not that much more than a standard lightsaber, and almost certainly not more than a double-ended lightsaber.
In general terms, I don't think Star Wars is a particularly good universe for munchkinry. The original films had the goal of creating a compelling movie experience, not to create a coherent and rational universe. The Expanded Universe eventually did a pretty good job at filling in the holes and making something that on the surface seems reasonably consistent, but it remains insufficiently well specified to really be able to subject it to muchkinry.
u/None [+7] (7 hours later)
Yes, Rylo Ken's crossguard saber has been discussed ad nauseam.
u/ProfessorPhi [+2] (a day later)
The movie could have dispelled of all this with a quick stab to Finn's shoulder with the crossguard while they're doing the usual jedi thing of crossing blades while glowering into each others faces.
u/eaglejarl [+4] (a day later)
They did.
u/TennisMaster2 [+4] (2 days later)
The problem isn't the crossguard, but its design. The spokes of the guard are produced by two light generators on the saber base. The guard can't fulfill its defensive purpose, because if an attacker's lightsaber blade slips down the defender's, the attacker's blade will cut through the two generators, never touching the light produced therefrom. The guard is thus a wholly offensive addition, and in more than one sense literally cuts both ways.
u/CouteauBleu [+5] We are the Empire. (31 minutes later)
The laser crossguard thing would make a lot more sense if you ever saw a jedi need a crossguard. I mean, physically, it's obvious you should need one or every lightsaber fight would end with your fingers liquefied by the other guy's saber. But since we never, ever see that happening, the crossguard seems a little useless.
Also, the rotating blade exists: it's the inquisitors' weapon in Star Wars Rebels.
u/cretan_bull [+5] (46 minutes later)
It's not a question of need. Obviously a crossguard isn't needed because the standard lightsaber doesn't have it, but that does not mean that having a crossguard can't lend itself to a modified fighting style.
A crossguard makes the most sense if the blades can slide against one another, I don't know to what extent this is the case. If the blades could slide against one another almost frictionlessly, then a crossguard still wouldn't be needed, but when parrying you would either have to rotate the blade to stop your opponent's blade from sliding up its length, or otherwise push and deflect your opponent's blade to the side before that could occur.
The crossguard stops the opponent's blade from sliding up, it can be used to parry while attacking with the main length, and it could lend itself to locks where the opponent's blade was trapped between the main blade and the crossguard.
u/Marthinwurer [+8] (6 hours later)
Lightabers bind extremely well, from what I've seen in the movies.
As a fencer who's attempted to do some fencing with lightsabers, it's extremely hard to protect both your hands and yourself without a crossguard. There's no real way to hold their blade away without it being caught on something, and without a crossguard, the only option is your hand. Not to mention that the lack of a crossguard makes my favorite move in German Longsword, the Zwerchau, nearly impossible. A regular sport fencing circle six is nearly impossible without a bell guard as well.
Edit: also, the amount of times I've hit myself with my crossguard while doing longsword sparring would make me incredibly leery about having a crossguard that would burn though my skin.
u/eaglejarl [+1] (a day later)
It may be an issue of swordplay style. The moves you learned for GL are designed for a weapon with a crossguard, so naturally they don't work well without one. On the other hand, kenjutsu relies very little on the guard -- bokken don't have crossguards at all, and it's generally not an issue. As far as I know, the tsuba on a katana is mostly there to keep it from dropping too far into the sheath.
u/Marthinwurer [+1] (a day later)
Unfortunately, I haven't seen too much Kenjutsu - most of the Japanese martial arts that I've seen has been kendo, where the style seems nearly suicidal. This is probably them just gaming the rules because of kendo's limited target area and required form - if they can't hit you in the right spot the right way, you're fine. This also means that their parries don't have to be as protective or controlled - as long as you just do enough to throw them off (plus a little for good measure) then you're fine.
As much as I'm picking kendo apart, there are a surprising amount of similarities between kendo and longsword. Jodon is nearly identical to a high vom tag, and hasso is close to a common one. Gedan is like alber, chudan is halfway between pflug and longpoint, and while Wikipedia doesn't tell me it has a name, when I watch videos of kendo, I can see the kendoka go into ochs.
Now, also remember that I'm terrible at Historical European Martial Arts - I just know the buzzwords and basic stances. I know a bit more about sport fencing, but I'm still terrible at that. More info on HEMA at /r/wma
u/CouteauBleu [+1] We are the Empire. (a day later)
Yeah, okay, but my point was that this was still demonstrated, well, absolutely nowhere in the movie.
u/Jiro_T [+1] (6 hours later)
Crossguards are not used to attack, but to protect, and don't have to be sharp.
Lightsabers are inherently sharp.
Making a lightsaber crossguard is stupid.
u/None [+2] (7 hours later)
The problem with a lightsaber crossguard is that lightsaber blade basically cuts through almost everything. To make an actual crossguard for a ligthsaber fight will require that the crossguard also be a form of lightsaber and that is just scratching the surface of what has been discussed on this. This topic has been discussed so many times the first time we saw that lightsaber. Almost every conceivable scenarios, considerations have been discussed.
u/JulianWyvern [+3] Wayward Wanderer (7 hours later)
Close, a number of materials are made to resist lightsaber's, all of which would probably make for better crossguards.
u/None [+5] (8 hours later)
[deleted]
u/JulianWyvern [+3] Wayward Wanderer (8 hours later)
At the very least, something like the electrified staffs that Grievous's guards use can resist and probably would make for a better crossguard
u/SkeevePlowse [+2] (13 hours later)
I always thought it was the electrified part that repelled lightsabers, not the metal. And if that's the case, then your crossguard's still just as dangerous.
u/callmebrotherg [+2] now posting as /u/callmesalticidae (13 hours later)
The Expanded Universe is in a weird, nebulous state. Schrodinger's Cortosis is perfectly possible, and will be until such time that cortosis is either referenced in the new canon or it is definitively stated that lightsaber-proof materials do not exist.
u/None [+1] (8 hours later)
Hence that's why this discussion is just scratching the surface. Maybe he could have used the lightning rod thingy in the prequel or cortosis or whatever.
u/None [+8] (a minute later)
Some light munchkinism.
u/CharsCustomerService [+2] (a day later)
Interestingly, the light sabers used by the Sith Inquisitors in Rebels are probably more munchkiny, and they're canon. Double bladed lightsaber, on a ring that can spin. So, shield function? Yup. Grievous-style buzzsaw of doom? Check. Friggin helicopter!? Apparently the repulsorlift motor that helps the blades spin generates enough lift that it can lift the wielder and let them fly, Inspector Gadget style.
u/Roxolan [+1] Head of antimemetiWalmart senior assistant manager (6 days later)
But then you have to ask, if this is possible, why doesn't every force-user have one?