8.3 KiB
[D] Rationally Writing, Episode 2 - Tropes
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Author: u/DaystarEld Pokémon Professor*
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URL: http://www.daystareld.com/podcast/rationally-writing-2/
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Score: 20
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Created: 2016-07-16T17:09:01
Post:
Comments:
u/4t0m [+14] Chaos Legion (an hour later)
I enjoyed listening to this, but it has me looking forward to more in-depth discussions about particular tropes in future episodes, including things like why a particular trope is or isn't bad, why it often shows up, how it can be avoided or used well, and examples of rational fic in which the trope can be found.
Anyway. Hey! Everyone! Look at this new content that /u/DaystarEld and /u/alexanderwales are putting out! Isn't it pretty cool and surprising that there is a podcast explicitly about Rational Fic, something catering pretty much exclusively to this weird taste we all share? Also, doesn't it seem like kind of a bunch of work?
If you aren't already supporting these guys for their fiction, perhaps you might consider starting now? I think it's super cool that there's a RationalFic podcast, but something so niche pretty much has to be a passion project. Still, there is an easy way you can show your appreciation and incentivize future projects by these two and others in the community.
Both DaystarEld and Alexanderwales have Patreon accounts:
Alexanderwales (guys, Glimwarden is really really good.)
--cheerleader (maybe "shill" is more accurate? eh, whatever)
(EDIT: :'( :'( :'( No increase for either of them. Oh well, I tried.)
u/DaystarEld [+4] Pokémon Professor (an hour later)
We'll definitely be going into individual tropes more in-depth in later episodes, once we cover most of the basics of the process :) Any in specific you'd like to talk more about? We could discuss it here, even.
Also, thanks for the cheerleading! "Shill" implies that you're getting a cut or have some clandestine relationship with either of us, which as far as I'm aware isn't the case. You could be one of my friends in a disguised account, I suppose, but if not "Chearleader" works :) Thanks to Patreon's revival of the word's meaning, "Patron" works too, even if it doesn't have quite the same context as in the ancient days. "Sponsor" could work too, though it has gained some complicating connotations thanks to the modern world's use of commercialization and advertisements.
u/4t0m [+5] Chaos Legion (2 hours later)
No benefit to me except for the possibly increased production of things I like :)
And oof, called out. No, nothing specific I'd like to discuss at the moment. I'll just continue to benefit from the thoughtful contributions of others, thank you very much :). Also I'm going to claim I don't (or shouldn't) have time right now for a real discussion, despite the obvious fact that I am currently on reddit.
u/raymestalez [+7] (3 hours later)
Great episode! What an awesome podcast, thank you guys for sharing this information, it's so valuable and useful!
If anyone is interested in learning more about Dan Harmon's story circle, I recommend to read the series of articles he wrote about it. And here you can read about his story breaking process.
Also it's super exciting to hear rationalfiction.io being mentioned on your podcast, made me really happy))
u/alexanderwales [+3] Time flies like an arrow (7 hours later)
If you're interested, and if you don't mind spoilers (serious, major, ending spoilers) for a thing that's only kind-sorta in publication yet, I did a story circle for part of my pre-writing on The Dark Wizard of Donkerk back in 2014 (and while I'm hoping to finish that first draft in November of this year, in 2014 I thought I was going to finish it then).
u/raymestalez [+2] (7 hours later)
This is very interesting, I will try to write an outline like this for my next story. It's really cool to see behind the scenes info like that!
u/trekie140 [+3] (a day later)
Great episode guys, I look forward to more and will definitely be checking out Shadows of the Limelight. The only thing I disagree with you on is that I think it's possible to have Evil villains in a rational story, we're just the kind of people who like reading about shades of grey so we keep making the villains sympathetic.
I think the way it could be pulled off is by making the antagonist explicitly irrational. We root for the hero to defeat the villain in stories because the villain is more Wrong and the hero is more Right. The point of that villain is to show the audience what not to do, and because they made the wrong choices they are defeated.
While I see the appeal of a rationalist Luthor from Metropolitan Man, I really like the way the character is interpreted in comics like Lex Luthor: Man of Steel and All Star Superman. In those stories it's made clear that his fear for humanity is just the way he rationalizes his hatred of the personified antithesis of his worldview.
He comes across similarly to the Ice King from Adventure Time, an insane man with power who refuses to acknowledge his sickness and is doomed to repeat the same patterns over and over until he admits he's wrong. We both hate and pity him while seeing a bit of our own faults within him, and so we are warned against making the same mistakes.
u/alexanderwales [+5] Time flies like an arrow (a day later)
We'll talk about the place of Evil characters in some future episode. Right now I'm thinking that it will slot into the episode on the three (or four, or nine) types of conflict, but if not there, then in an episode on Blue and Orange morality (which will necessarily touch on Black and White morality and Grey and Gray morality).
u/DaystarEld [+3] Pokémon Professor (a day later)
I agree that it's definitely possible to have Evil characters in rationalfic, and even that there might be positives to it! The problem for me is when they're the main villain, or the only villain, because then it becomes far harder for writers to present complex moral struggles or avoid soapboxing.
A lot of my favorite stories usually include multiple antagonists, so that the protagonists have to face, say, Chaotic Evil monsters and Lawful Evil humans, or Chaotic Evil humans and True Neutral aliens, or some other more complex mix. We'll go into things like that more in a later episode, but you're right that there's a place for Evil in rationalfiction :)
u/None [+2] (8 hours later)
Once again, may I suggest Creative Rational Writing as title for podcast?
u/DaystarEld [+2] Pokémon Professor (8 hours later)
I appreciate the suggestion, but it falls too much to one side of the Aesthetic/Descriptive axis for me. I'll check with /u/alexanderwales to see what he thinks :)
u/alexanderwales [+4] Time flies like an arrow (a day later)
I am personally against changing the name unless someone comes up with something that works as both descriptive and a double entendre. My feeling towards names is that names are more something that sinks you than something that makes you float; a bad name can keep people away, but people aren't going to be attracted by a good name, they're going to be attracted by the all-powerful force of Word of Mouth. The name we have now is already more on the descriptive side of the descriptive/aesthetic spectrum, and while I agree that there's probably a better name out there, I don't think making the name more descriptive is the right direction to go.
u/None [+1] (9 hours later)
Oops. I mean Rational Creative Writing.
u/AmeteurOpinions [+1] Finally, everyone was working together. (10 hours later)
The only title I can think of is Rational Fiction Radio. It's authoritative and broad enough to contain everything you would need it to, without too much bycatch.