11 KiB
[RT][DC] Writing a Rat Fic of No Game No Life
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Author: u/None *
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/4zvn1p/rtdc_writing_a_rat_fic_of_no_game_no_life/
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Score: 6
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Created: 2016-08-27T18:56:20
Post:
[removed]
Comments:
u/monkyyy0 [+6] (2 hours later)
How could you write a rational version of this story that still allows human to compete with magic wielders? Perhaps by giving them some kind of brain based super power that helps them actually out think the other races, or something like that? As if the entire species had an evil dark side, a la HPMOR?
that part of the story is already rational; the other races lack an element of pure hail mary plays and seem to underestimate chaos when faced with unexpected positioning from the opponent.
Maybe you could expand on that; clarify that the games between the races tend to have formed a stale meta and the sibling are just experts at "donkey space" and win by dragging it into it over and over, which is kinda what they do in the show but there are some times such a thing happens by chance("you must agree to play a game with rules we choose that plot device no one rembers the rules after they lose"; oh right the siblings are good at this game anyway because macguffins)
u/None [+3] (3 hours later)
eh but the thing is, in a world dominated by games in such a way, wouldn't everybody be as good as the siblings are? Wouldn't education consist, to a large extent, at learning how to play games, including possible donkey space strategies? I mean, even if what we see from the show is a stale meta, that's just because they're facing the siblings. If the elves wanted to go against the more powerful flügel, they would also need to use inventive tactics. My point is that no one seems to be reacting rationally to a game based world, but that if they did, humans would have on chance, so I'm trying to come up with a good buff that doesn't wreck the story but still allows for some mortal competition.
u/monkyyy0 [+5] (4 hours later)
We live in a world dominated by money; how many people understand it?
How much education goes toward teach people how to manage money? What money is?
u/None [+2] (4 hours later)
Ah but in this world of games, if someone wants to mug you, they challenge you to a game. If you want to hold any position of power, you have to achieve it through games and hold it via games (as at least in the anime, it is not explained how refusing a game works, or even if you're really allowed to do that). Being good games appears to, in this world, give you unlimited political and financial power, if you can beat your opponents. Meanwhile money is only useful if you have it, and cannot always be used to directly beat your opponents. For example, if you want to be president, you campaign, and money helps, but having more money than you're opponent won't be the end all cause of your victory. In No Game No Life, if you want to be king, you play games, and whether or not you win is the only reason for your ascension to royalty.
u/monkyyy0 [+2] (4 hours later)
Would that change anything? People are irrational they are willing to work for dozens of hours a week for money but ask them to think about money for a hour and they freeze up, being good at games may solve 100% of problems in that world but being good with money can solve ~50% in ours (more if you consider politics as being money related, looking at you toilet paper/condom shortages in venezuela) people still don't care; is it really a difference in kind rather then scale?
u/None [+1] (4 hours later)
Yes, as it is very rare that someone would come up to you on the street and say "Lets compete in a contest of how well each of us know how to handle money!", and if they won that half an hour contest, they got you house. In our world, knowledge of money is more a long term, subtle investment for most people, and people tend to ignore stuff that is useful in the long term. For example, unless you are a stock broker or something, learning how to manage your finances and invest will most likely make you significantly richer next year, not tomorrow.
But in this world, being bad at games could have instant, life changing consequences. Being good at games can have instant, life changing consequences. The best gamer in your species could literally sell you all into slavery (betting the race piece and losing) and there would be nothing you could do unless you could beat them at a game and take their title. In that kind of world, where gaming is both self-defence, politics, economics and, it seems, a large part of crime (muggers challenging people to games), not learning a lot about games is a lot different than people in our world not studying up on money.
Being great at money in our world is (for the average worker) like being a sighted man in a world where everyone is wearing bad glasses, and your place in life is how well you can pick ripe fruit from nearby low hanging trees. Most will get by just fine without perfect sight, but you will do significantly better in the long run as you stockpile more fruit.
Being the best gamer in this world is like being an ultra buff guy in a world where everyone can life max 5 kilos, there are no weapons, they have to all fight you 1 v 1, can't refuse to fight you, and winning can get you anything they are willing to bet.
u/ThisIsNotPossible [+3] (6 hours later)
in a world dominated by games in such a way, wouldn't everybody be as good as the siblings are?
That may not be true. There isn't much known about that place just what is shown. What is shown is skewed towards our world.
They have money in that place. Why? Can't you just challenge someone and take what they have? Easy answer: The creator made this world with illogical rules in order to satisfy a mentor or friends, can't remember which ( will try and look up the interview - don't hold your breath ), prompt of an Anime-Manga-Fiction of a world without violence.
Education? Why would you educate anyone? World is modeled on fantasy middle ages Europe with kinda-sorta modern Japan(warbeasts). So warbeasts have managed something like Integrated circuits yet the humans are still working with horse drawn carriages. There is no exchange at all? What about a smart human challenging a below average warbeast to buy the human a book from a warbeast library?
If you wanted to attempt Rational(No game No life) then just move forward with your OWN world that holds to the idea that: Violence is forbidden
u/CrystalShadow [+3] (7 hours later)
[deleted]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.5301
u/RMcD94 [+2] (11 hours later)
Been a while since I watched it but I remember the lack of rule clarity bugging me, handily I found my short comments on mal on the matter.
Ep1
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1140821&show=550#msg40836439
Ep4
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1162569&show=400#msg40842845
Ep6
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1175087&show=600#msg40846195
In particular ep4 comment is worth a skim I think.
u/DCarrier [+2] (11 hours later)
I was thinking about making a post like this after I watched it. It's so utterly perfect for rational fiction, if they didn't ruin it by making it wrong in just about every way.
『 』 bet everything on every game and always won. That is a terrible strategy. If they're always winning, the games aren't hard enough. They should play harder games with lower stakes. Also, I've checked some of those games. For example, when they're betting on if more men or women will walk past, unless there's a totally unreasonable majority of men the probability of getting more women is too high for the stakes they bet at.
It annoyed me that someone who lived her whole life in that universe could have no understanding of basic game theory. When Sora made that modified tic-tac-toe bet with Steph, she should have immediately removed a row and column and found that it was equivalent to evens or odds.
The bet with Jibril went terribly. 『 』's offer for if they won was good enough for Jibril on its own. They could have made a bet that was the same either way or something like that.
It would be interesting to have something where 『 』 loses, and then "cheats" by making the other person keep it a secret or something, so 『 』 could keep the perfect record. Like, they mention that Sora and Shiro can lose, but 『 』 can't, so maybe they claim it's 『 』 when they win but not when they lose. Or one of them leaves when it appears they might lose, so it doesn't count as a loss for 『 』.
At one point 『 』 forced people to not file false reports or something like that by playing a game where the loser can't do that, and telling them to throw the game. I would have just made winning and losing have the same condition or played the zero game or both. That simplifies things a bit, and makes it so it can be used more generally. For example, you can force people not to cheat on games.
Perhaps by giving them some kind of brain based super power that helps them actually out think the other races, or something like that?
Yes. It's called rationality. That's the point of these stories. Although realistically magic shouldn't help them much, given that both sides have to agree a match is fair.
u/Dwood15 [+1] (11 hours later)
The main characters in the story are essentially the One Punch Man characters of their Universe. There's no one that can stop them. That said, there are some inconsistencies in the rules, but I think the overall neglect are the character's irrationalities in their betting styles. Certainly, the world situation can be setup to end in the same situation it was in, as others are talking about.
It's definitely something I'd like to see explored more, except from the bottom up style. How do you, as a non-plot-armor character, munchkin the rules of the system into your favor as a non-magical human?
u/PeridexisErrant [+1] put aside fear for courage, and death for life (16 hours later)
Per our rules in the sidebar, a published chapter is required prior to each brainstorming post.
u/None [+1] (12 days later)
oh no I don't mean to write this as much as I want to discuss it. That's why I didn't put [BST] in the title, even though it technically is. Is this still against the rules though? I just had a thought and wanted some group input.
u/PeridexisErrant [+1] put aside fear for courage, and death for life (12 days later)
Yes, it's still against the rules - sorry! We're trying to promote actual, not potential, rational fiction.