11 KiB
Other rationality forums so that I don't need to go off topic here?
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Author: u/Sailor_Vulcan Champion of Justice and Reason*
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/5c9utf/other_rationality_forums_so_that_i_dont_need_to/
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Score: 30
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Created: 2016-11-10T19:40:38
Post:
Is there anywhere online that I can talk to rationalists and post about rationality related things besides fiction more than just once a week? I was under the impression that there aren't any. And please don't say Less Wrong. Less Wrong is dead and has been for a long while now.
Comments:
u/alexanderwales [+34] Time flies like an arrow (29 minutes later)
The problem isn't so much that Less Wrong died, it's that it fractured into a bunch of little pieces that are spread out around the internet. See this map from SSC, though it's two years old at this point.
You basically have a bunch of bloggers from Less Wrong that now have their own sites, or tumblrs, or whatever. The only way to resurrect Less Wrong or its equivalent would be to get all the most active community members back together on one site, and I don't think anything like that has ever been done with any community.
I do think your best bet is probably /r/slatestarcodex, though the audience isn't quite identical. Otherwise, get on tumblr and figure out how that thing works (I know nothing about tumblr except its design decisions are unfriendly and there are lots of rationalists there).
There is a fraction of users on this subreddit who want it to become the new place on the internet to discuss all things rational, but there's a different fraction who want this place to just be for fiction, either because they prefer segregating their rational activities, or because they have no real interest in rationality by itself. We mods err on the side of purity of focus. The compromise is that we have a General Rationality thread on Mondays and an Off-Topic thread on Fridays, mostly so that people can talk about these things within this community while still quarantining those topics away from those with no interest in them.
I do wish that /r/lesswrong were a bright and vibrant community, but it's not, and I think trying to turn this community into what that community should be won't work and will be to our detriment.
u/earnestadmission [+2] Singular "they" user (3 days later)
I love that MIRI is in the region marked Fiction. Not out of any kind of spite, really. It just made me laugh.
u/LiteralHeadCannon [+16] (3 minutes later)
I tend to think of /r/slatestarcodex as the new Less Wrong.
u/Sailor_Vulcan [+4] Champion of Justice and Reason (6 minutes later)
But isn't Slate Star Codex just a blog written by one particular person? I thought they also only have their open threads on a particular day out of the week?
u/alexanderwales [+17] Time flies like an arrow (15 minutes later)
Slate Star Codex is a blog written by one guy. /r/slatestarcodex has article submissions from all over the place which are more or less within the rational sphere (and many of the submitters and commentors there are from Less Wrong).
u/gbear605 [+10] history’s greatest story (13 minutes later)
The subreddit has a good deal of commenting and articles from multiple sources, even thought SSC is a blog by a single person.
Also the openthreads are twice weekly, though 3/4 of them are hidden and can only be found with that link.
u/FeepingCreature [+5] GCV Literally The Entire Culture (4 hours later)
Most of the good stuff on LessWrong was written by one person.
u/memoriesofthesea [+9] (5 hours later)
Luke, Gwern, Scott, RomeoStevens, Alicorn, and others contributed some great content.
u/FeepingCreature [+5] GCV Literally The Entire Culture (6 hours later)
Of course.
u/memoriesofthesea [+3] (5 hours later)
Really? It's definitely got a different culture.
u/LiteralHeadCannon [+2] (5 hours later)
Does it? No two internet communities have identical cultures, but /r/slatestarcodex certainly feels like the closest to the old, thriving Less Wrong to me.
u/memoriesofthesea [+6] (6 hours later)
I get the impression that there are a greater number of commenters that do not share some assumptions (materialism, naturalism, consequentialism, etc) that were taken as a given in LessWrong, which seems to lead to a constant recycling of old arguments. In addition, it seems like a more politically charged environment that's not as concerned with the boring parts of aspiring rationality. I don't know if this impression is correct, and I make no judgements about it other than 'variety can be good'.
I think you get something closer to LW in the IRC. Tumblr is definitely pretty far away from LW, as far as culture goes. In the end, I think different communities are going to suit different people. I guess that's why it's a diaspora. It'd be nice if there was a grand list, but those seem difficult to keep up with. As far as new content goes, I think few things beat CFAR.
u/Sailor_Vulcan [+10] Champion of Justice and Reason (24 minutes later)
Thank you. I didn't realize that the SSC subreddit differed from the actual SSC in that way. I'll check it out. Sorry for snapping at you earlier AlexanderWales. I know you weren't trying to limit my ability to speak freely with other rationalists. I just got really frustrated and upset and I didn't previously know what you guys just said about the SSC subreddit. I've been feeling really isolated this year because I haven't had time or transportation access to go to any local rationality or hcco meetings this year due to my work and school schedule and the fact that I don't drive and live too far away from them.
Thank you.
u/alexanderwales [+3] Time flies like an arrow (33 minutes later)
No problem, I understand it. This isn't the first time we've discussed the purpose and focus of this subreddit, and won't be the last.
u/None [+8] (3 hours later)
[removed]
u/EliezerYudkowsky [+4] Godric Gryffindor (10 hours later)
I don't think that's literally the weirdest _ that I've ever clicked on, I just can't remember what tops it.
u/snipawolf [+2] (11 hours later)
Entropy. If I recall a few people on LW warned us about it.
It's strange how deep the pit of distaste goes for such a tiny, unassuming community.
u/Riddle-Tom_Riddle [+1] (a month later)
Bullying is a great way to enforce social norms. So why are people trying to "solve ethics" and do a bunch of unnecessary math? Just have the robot cave to social pressure so that it may be a bully-able target. This is how we solve UFAI.
Join me at the Machine Bullying Research Institute
u/creatureofthewood [+8] (6 minutes later)
Less Wrong is dead and has been for a long while now.
The grass is green where you water it
u/Sailor_Vulcan [+10] Champion of Justice and Reason (10 minutes later)
Only if you actually have grass seeds. And sunlight and nutrients in the soil. I don't think I'm the first person who has thought of reviving Less Wrong. I'm sure other people have tried and failed to do so. Perhaps if I better understood why Less Wrong died and why it hasn't been successfully revived I might be able to come up with a way to revive it? I don't think that's very likely though.
u/creatureofthewood [+7] (13 minutes later)
I think it lost vitality when the most talented authors (Eliezer, Scott, etc) stopped posting.
After which I'd say the alt right quickly becoming the loudest minorities in the room and use of vote manipulation tactics squeezed out the last few ounces of life.
u/TheAtomicOption [+5] (12 hours later)
As I understood it, the community always had a lot of almost-crazy people in it from both ends of the political spectrum that the big posters kinda kept in check. Remember all the people getting angry at EY even before HPMOR was finished because they didn't think his female characters were feminist enough? That was some dumb shit.
When EY and others stopped sitting around on the site all the time and started trying to actually accomplish some of the things everyone had been talking about, the almost-crazies from different sides of the aisles couldn't tolerate each other and people quickly started leaving. I've seen it in other "fringe" culture communities. People get hypersensitive. Emotions run high and aren't controlled by normal maturity. The thing breaks up because weird people get along with other weird people even worse than normal people get along with each other.
u/creatureofthewood [+2] (a day later)
I really don't think people saying that a fictional work may contain sexist tropes is an example of crazy, but this isn't about the opinions themselves.
The far left was relatively quiet about it / usually didn't even post to lesswrong / did not engage in systematic vote manipulation. The far right literally singled out liberal users and tried to make them leave the community by downvoting every single post they made. No one went around vote stalking people who liked hpmor.
I wouldn't even have that much of a problem with the alt right presence if it wasn't for the vote manipulation. I even thought it was kind of fun having a different opinion around before things started getting really ugly.
u/TheAtomicOption [+2] (a day later)
The crazy wasn't that someone pointed out tropes. The crazy was that people were angry about it.
u/Sailor_Vulcan [+1] Champion of Justice and Reason (14 minutes later)
Well that sucks. You mean as soon as the most talented rationalist writers left less wrong, nobody stayed behind so that they could actually talk to other rationalists online?
u/creatureofthewood [+2] (22 minutes later)
I mean, I wouldn't say no one stuck around. I still recognize Gwern, NancyL, Vaniver in the "top posters" list.
u/DaystarEld [+3] Pokémon Professor (4 hours later)
Projects like https://mapandterritory.org/ are a way to try and re-consolidate the bloggers of Lesswrong, including new rational writers. I posted an article there, and it's still attempting to grow by inviting new ones. Hopefully it's successful.
u/memoriesofthesea [+2] (5 hours later)
I'd recommend the IRC. I know a few people who were trying to make r/rationality happen, as well.
u/rhaps0dy4 [+2] (6 hours later)
Also feel free to join us in the Slack! PM Elo on lesswrong for access to it.
u/neuroneater [+1] (5 hours later)
u/NoYouTryAnother [+1] (a day later)
The de facto location today is the weekly open-threads at SlateStarCodex. There are 2 or 3 a week, they can be reached by the link at the top of www.slatestarcodex.com, many great people post there (as well as many not so great) - the threads are extremely active, hitting +1000 comments in mere days (which is the reason for now having so many new ones each week).