12 KiB
CHAPTER 46: TO TALK OF PATIENCE TO THE AFFLICTED
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Author: u/None *
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URL: http://unsongbook.com/chapter-46-to-talk-of-patience-to-the-afflicted/
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Score: 33
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Created: 2016-11-13T22:42:43
Post:
Comments:
u/CCC_037 [+15] (11 hours later)
...I notice that Dylan's reworded oath is missing one thing that Mark asked him to swear to.
Mark's oath asked Dylan to swear that he was telling the truth and that things would go bad if Dylan was lying. Dylan's reworded oath says nothing one way or another about truthfulness.
He promises not to hurt Mark, and to get Mark safely to Europe. But he's lying to Mark. And I'm pretty sure Mark didn't notice.
u/TK17Studios [+11] Author of r!Animorphs: The Reckoning (20 hours later)
The second Dylan started requoting, I was wishing I was reading rational fiction instead. Mark even "insisted" that Dylan say the actual words, but then just didn't follow through ...
u/bassicallyboss [+5] (a day later)
He promises not to hurt Mark, and to get Mark safely to Europe.
If you examine the oath, he only forswears injury, emotional devastation, and frying Mark's eyes in vegetable oil. He doesn't forswear, for example, telling someone else to injure or emotionally devastate Mark, or to fry Mark's eyes in vegetable oil.
More importantly, however, Dylan manages to swear not to get Mark safely to Europe if/when Mark wants to stop working with him (which Mark plans to do eventually, even if he does stay until Malia Ngo is dead). Mark doesn't need to know whether Dylan is lying: Taking him at his word is sufficient reason not to trust Dylan.
u/CCC_037 [+3] (a day later)
More importantly, however, Dylan manages to swear not to get Mark safely to Europe if/when Mark wants to stop working with him
...huh. You're right. I somehow failed to notice that.
u/LeifCarrotson [+1] (8 days later)
If you examine the oath, he only forswears injury, emotional devastation, and frying Mark's eyes in vegetable oil. He doesn't forswear, for example, telling someone else to injure or emotionally devastate Mark, or to fry Mark's eyes in vegetable oil.
I think the et ceteras cover that.
u/bassicallyboss [+1] (8 days later)
Yeah, I suppose they might. Still, if it isn't mentioned specifically, I'd be suspicious.
u/NotACauldronAgent [+11] Probably (28 minutes later)
Well, all sympathy for Dylan is gone. That guy, though.
u/ulyssessword [+16] (8 hours later)
One of the comments on the site calls Thamiel "unspeakably evil". I'd say that the main reason Dylan gets as much hate as he does is because he is speakably evil, and people can articulate and discuss why he is a bad person.
u/NotACauldronAgent [+1] Probably (12 hours later)
I can accept that.
u/None [+9] (36 minutes later)
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u/None [+13] (54 minutes later)
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u/None [+4] (4 hours later)
I mean, his way of thinking is actually a pretty rational way to deal with outside-the-argument concerns a la http://squid314.livejournal.com/350090.html
If someone can make a very convincing argument for making the world worse, I mean, saying, well, I guess we should make the world worse is not a normal human response nor a rational one.
EDIT: his way of thinking, not his way of mailing people bombs. Don't mail people nasty things. It's very rude.
u/None [+1] (4 hours later)
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u/Evan_Th [+8] Sunshine Regiment (7 hours later)
It's his core values. Viewing Dylan charitably - as at least half of me really wants to - he sees a world that's gone wrong, that's obviously offending against his sacred values, and refuses to accept any argument otherwise because the world is self-evidently wrong! To quote a Chesterton quote from another of Scott's great essays:
I begin with a little girl’s hair. That I know is a good thing at any rate. Whatever else is evil, the pride of a good mother in the beauty of her daughter is good. It is one of those adamantine tendernesses which are the touchstones of every age and race. If other things are against it, other things must go down. If landlords and laws and sciences are against it, landlords and laws and sciences must go down. With the red hair of one she-urchin in the gutter I will set fire to all modern civilization...
She is the human and sacred image; all around her the social fabric shall sway and split and fall; the pillars of society shall be shaken, and the roofs of ages come rushing down, and not one hair of her head shall be harmed.
u/None [+4] (5 hours later)
I mean, the author of squid314 is the same as UNSONG, so there's an extent to which I don't have to endorse the thinking to be right that this is the idea he's trying to write about. Dylan is clearly the embodiment of the rational learned helplessness -- that's why he's a rogue placebomancer. Because he is the embodiment of rejecting persuasive arguments from authority figures when they aren't what helps him win.
u/MugaSofer [+5] (22 hours later)
Dylan is clearly the embodiment of the rational learned helplessness -- that's why he's a rogue placebomancer.
I don't think he is. Remember, that whole speech was a lie.
We have no idea what Dylan's motives are. All we know is that he's witty and persuasive, and a pathological liar and serial killer.
Actually, that's not entirely true. According to Laughing To Scorn Thy Laws And Terrors, Dylan was originally a rank-and-file ritual magician who vowed revenge after he was expelled, and he became a terrorist because he realized "hero fighting the system" is a better story than "failed magician begging to be reinstated".
u/None [+3] (a day later)
I didn't articulate very well. I'm not saying his story is true, a reflection of something that happened but occurred in a different way, a metaphor for his existence, nor a useful lens to try and guess how he sees himself. It's probably just bullshit.
But he does seem to categorically reject the narratives of his opponents instead of trying to negotiate or reason with them. That is an actual tactic he uses, we can observe, even if we don't know what his goals are. And that (aside from being more powerful placebomancy, as you point out) is also a fair way to deal with the concerns Scott brings up in the article. That similarity was what I was trying to point at.
u/sir_pirriplin [+4] (a day later)
The point of the article on epistemic learned helplessness was that you should NOT become a terrorist just because you can't refute some clever arguments in favor of becoming a terrorist (like the Young Democrat speech).
u/ratanon [+1] Holy, holy is the lord of /etc/hosts (12 hours later)
They said real, not rational.
u/None [+2] (19 hours later)
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u/ratanon [+3] Holy, holy is the lord of /etc/hosts (19 hours later)
There's a whole continuum of points in ℝ ∖ ℚ.
u/NotACauldronAgent [+10] Probably (41 minutes later)
He has a cringy revolution shirt on that could only be made more cringy by Che Guevera! He advocates the assassination of government members! He doesn't care about his "friend's" feelings! He's clearly an "edgy" antihero, what more do you want?
u/dimata [+3] (12 hours later)
In contrast, I finished this chapter wondering how Dylan had become the most likable character of the cast! He's got interesting motives, a strong case to support them, and is one of the few characters doing something to work towards them at this point.
u/NotACauldronAgent [+3] Probably (21 hours later)
After forgetting about a "friend" he threw under the bus 10 years ago, he comes to the realization he needs his strength back. Therefore, he destroys that person's worldview to get him to agree and plans to use him to assassinate someone. Though Director Ngo might be a bad person, she does not seem like she warrants assassination yet. Also, he's letter bombed senators, recruited thugs, and scares people who live on the fastest boat in the world.
u/Frommerman [+2] (3 days later)
He's going to die horribly though, likely just after a massive "This is why you suck" speech from Ngo.
We know this for two reasons:
His entire brand of magic is prefaced on him being the main character. He isn't. His magic will fail him at a narratively important moment because the Unsongverse runs on narrativium.
Ngo can see invisible people. And is probably a demon. Neither of these are facts Dylan seems to know.
u/ThatDarnSJDoubleW [+11] (7 hours later)
Dammit, Mark. You were a good wizard with a bright future ahead of you, imprisoned for murders that you didn't commit, framed by a charismatic former friend with a mysterious past running a secretive terrorist organization. You could have won in only a few story arcs, if you yelled "I've never join you" and then swore revenge.
“I, Dylan Alvarez – oh, how should I remember how your stupid phrase went – I swear I won’t kill you, make someone else kill you, cause you to die in ways that may not technically count as ‘killing you’, betray you, injure you, emotionally devastate you, turn you in, use you as bait, fry your eyes in vegetable oil, feed you to an alligator, trick other people into feeding you to alligators, cause you to be consumed by an alligator in ways that may not technically count as ‘feeding you’ to it, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, if by some bizarre fluke you make the terrible choice not to continue working with me, get you safely to Europe, or may my luck dry up and my head turn green and my liver explode and everybody die, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So help me God.”
Then Dylan stared at Erica, and Erica started laughing again.
Instead, zero chance Mark has a happy ending.
may my luck dry up and my head turn green and my liver explode and everybody die, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all
So Unsong ends with all that happening to Dylan and then the US becoming a DrugLordy hivemind before dying?
u/Evan_Th [+3] Sunshine Regiment (19 hours later)
Not quite - the Untied States will have to reunite into "one nation, indivisible" too!
u/alexanderwales [+9] Time flies like an arrow (an hour later)
For courtesy's sake, please include tags and a title next time you post this.
u/None [+2] (an hour later)
Ah, sorry? I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying I should have done "Unsong Chapter 46" instead of just "chapter 46?
u/alexanderwales [+4] Time flies like an arrow (2 hours later)
Yes. All the tags we have available are on the sidebar, but it's not required to use them.
u/None [+2] (3 hours later)
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u/RMcD94 [+2] (12 hours later)
The mods should just deleted them if they're posted without a title. Takes two seconds to repost them fixed.
u/None [+1] (19 hours later)
[removed]
u/RMcD94 [+2] (19 hours later)
Link the deleted thread.
u/tokol [+1] The Greater Good (a day later)
Or you can sit here for another…hmmmm, twelve times four minus ten….thirty-eight years.
…. -> …
The period after the ellipsis looks about the same on reddit, but it's markedly bolder viewing the story in Chrome.