18 KiB
[RST] Naruto. The Need to Become Stronger, Chapter 8: Economics and Equipment. End of act 1!
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Author: u/Sophronius The Need to Become Stronger*
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URL: https://needtobecomestronger.wordpress.com/2016/11/28/chapter-8/
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Score: 27
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Created: 2016-11-28T20:41:13
Post:
Comments:
u/None [+4] (6 hours later)
Very interesting so far. I especially like how you, unlike most fanfic authors I know of in this fandom, are actually taking genjutsu seriously. I never really forgave canon for basically forgetting about them / making them useless as the series went on. I hope you make genjutsu as big a part of this story as ninjutsu. In a rational story, the ability to attack the mind directly seems incredibly powerful.
Is genjutsu going to be used by more than just Sakura and Sasuke? Because a version of Team 7 where they are not just an assault based team, but a genjutsu focused team as well, would be something I have never seen before in a fic. And while I know genjutsu is normally seen as the realm of Sakura/Sasuke, Kakashi's comment about immobilising enemies via brute force seems right up Naruto's alley.
Great work so far; this is definitely one of the more interesting Naruto works I've read. Once its finished it could be one of the greats. I can't wait to see what you're going to do with Team 7 :)
u/Sophronius [+2] The Need to Become Stronger (a day later)
I hope you make genjutsu as big a part of this story as ninjutsu. In a rational story, the ability to attack the mind directly seems incredibly powerful.
Yup, and it fits the theme too! It'll certainly play a big role in the story, but it will generally be used more subtly than ninjutsu.
Is genjutsu going to be used by more than just Sakura and Sasuke? Because a version of Team 7 where they are not just an assault based team, but a genjutsu focused team as well, would be something I have never seen before in a fic. And while I know genjutsu is normally seen as the realm of Sakura/Sasuke, Kakashi's comment about immobilising enemies via brute force seems right up Naruto's alley.
On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, it would be overpowered as heck! In Naruto there's always been this balance between "genius types" with lots of subtle techniques and skills on the one hand, and "Will" types who have tons of chakra/power. If I gave someone like Naruto all of Sasuke's abilities and let him use them intelligently in addition to having enormous chakra reserves... holy crap he would be unbeatable.
Unless you can think of some downside or weakness to him having body-bind genjutsu, I don't see him having that until maybe very late in the story :s
u/None [+1] (2 days later)
Ah but that is the thing; how does the conept of having 'Will' types who just blaze in and win via brute force really fit in to the concept of a rational Naruto story?
For example, in canon Naruto is a classic 'Will' type, and uses his shadow clones as an instant army. Which is a pretty good use, I'm not complaining about that. But why was he never taught proper military strategy, so his clones could actually act as an army if needed? And why wasn't he ever taught stealth, so he could send in a clone to try and assassinate an enemy; the perfect, uncatchable, risk-free assassin?
For that matter, in a rational version of Naruto, the only way I see stealth not being incredibly over powered (given the number of one shot one kill techniques) is if you also buff sensory abilities.
But to get back on point; I don't see how 'Will' types fit into a rational story, especially as a protagonist. I'd rather read a rational Naruto story from Sakura's point of view if that was the case, as she would be on the only one in the team who really really really needed to think in order to win any of her battles.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if Naruto is going to be a classic 'Will' type in this rational retelling, while I do think you could write it well (showing him learning to avoid tricks and apply his power effectively), I don't think he was the right choice for a central protagonist.
u/Sophronius [+1] The Need to Become Stronger (3 days later)
Hmm, I didn't mean that Naruto is a stupid courage-before-reason type in this one; just that his lack of techniques in canon is part of the balancing act. In NTBS he definitely has a lot more smarts and correspondingly only a fraction of his canon chakra (still more than 10 times as much as Sakura though), but Sasuke is still the "always someone better" rival who is at least seen as being even smarter than him but much less powerful in terms of chakra.
The point being: The story does not work if Naruto is too unbeatable. Why? Because I have read plenty fanfiction where they gave Naruto too much power, and it completely removes any plot tension stemming from his dynamic with his team and the Village.
u/None [+1] (a day later)
I think canon dropped the ball a little in not letting Sakura explore genjutsu (though she gets hilariously awesome super strength so I think it works) but genjutsu continues to be important throughout canon. Of course, it's mostly confined to the Uchiha clan: Sasuke, Itachi, Danzo, Kabuto, Second Mizukage (giant clam dude) all use genjutsu effectively.
of course, the jinchuuri immunity to most genjutsu (ala Killer B + Naruto) if their partner helps out is a mild copout, but it makes a fair amount of sense.
u/None [+3] (a day later)
"They arrived at the river, and Kakashi body-flickered across, while Naruto and the others were forced to take the long way around, as they could not jump that far."
Huh, you're really nerfing ninja. How far a jump is that?
"Meanwhile Sasuke used a kunai with a length of chain attached as a grapple, and scaled the wall vertically. "
So ninja are weak, but kunai are somehow strong enough to hold a person's weight?
"Somehow the Uchiha heir seemed to have no difficulty keeping up with Naruto, despite the massive difference in chakra reserves."
My random reminder that Sasuke has obscenely large reserves as well, though not at Naruto's level. See: using fireballs as an 8 year old, keeping up with Naruto in all-night tree training, etc.
Also, your ficcanon for the two types of genjutsu is weirdly similar to mine. Makes sense of Kakashi's genjutsu against Zabuza (super subtle) and the opposite type: Sasuke using genjutsu in part 2, which is usually not subtle (against Danzo its an exception) but generally pretty effective.
"Despite Naruto’s protestations, Kakashi had insisted they wear something resembling actual camouflage for their first real mission outside the Village. "
I don't remember how chakra intensive you made transformation in this fic: is it really that hard to just transform your clothing instead of wearing camo?
"daemon"
My own personal trigger: "demon" --> "daemon" though I admit that's entirely subjective.
"Slowly, very slowly, the tension in Sasuke’s muscles drained away. “…I will be expecting you to pay me back at some point,” he said at last. “Don’t think I’ll forget, dropout.”"
Man, I continue to not like your version of Sasuke, and how you're using him, but scenes like these make me half-convinced he's playing some long con where he pretends to be arrogant and impulsive just to make people underestimate him, instead of actually being arrogant and obsessed with his heritage.
Personal note: not sure why you want to go to Land of Waves. Hopefully you'll subvert expectations by having it be quite different, but in the Naruto fandom its a bit like Taylor (from Worm) fighting Lung on her first night out or Harry Potter going to Diagon Alley to buy stuff.
Overall: your writing continues to be technically very good, and Naruto's inner dialogue is quite good as well, though I think Kakashi's dialogue was a little off. Also, I felt the little digression on economics courtesy of Sakura felt a bit forced or out of place. We know its a fic with thought out economics. That can recede a little to the background. Though since its the beginning of the fic I can understand more of that in this part.
Re: chakra mechanics
Not sure how exactly you're treating it in this fic, but in canon its a combination of spiritual and physical energy, and there isn't really a 'reserve' of it. Many instances in canon have character recovering from using too much chakra pretty quick, with some ill-defined threshold of chakra exhaustion that causes immediate collapse.
one way to conceptualize is analogous to physical capacity for exercise: there's total exhausation that leads to physical collapse, exhaustion that can be recovered from in a couple minutes of rest, and a kind of steady-state exercise that can be maintained relatively indefinitely. Analogous to that, we have Kakashi post-Zabuza fight (collapses), Kakashi post second Zabuza fight (very tired, still able to fight), and ninja travel that doesn't seem to tire them.
Here it seems more like a 'tank' or reserve of chakra. Interesting choice.
u/Sophronius [+2] The Need to Become Stronger (a day later)
Huh, you're really nerfing ninja. How far a jump is that?
About five meters, but remember that these are new genin who haven't even learnt how to climb trees yet.
So ninja are weak, but kunai are somehow strong enough to hold a person's weight?
Sure. The chain bears part of the weight, and characters like Kakashi have done it plenty of times in canon.
My random reminder that Sasuke has obscenely large reserves as well, though not at Naruto's level.
Yes, but that's because Kishi has a hard-on for the Uchiha clan. I declare nerf.
Regarding your second point: I guess weird minds think alike?
is it really that hard to just transform your clothing instead of wearing camo?
It's not so much the chakra cost as it is the constant mental focus necessary to keep that up. But it would be good practice...
hm, now I'm thinking I need to add that to the next Arc.
Personal note: not sure why you want to go to Land of Waves.
Honestly I'm really doubting whether I made the correct decision there. The Waves Arc is actually the first part of the story I wrote, because after years of writing it in my head I just wanted to put something on paper. The Waves act was the most convenient way to do it since it was a mostly distinct/separate/self-contained (is there a better word for that?) part of the story. But now I'm looking at it and going "If it's mostly separate from the rest of the story and it's not 100% original, should it really be there?" So I'm scratching my head a bit there.
I still think the second half of the Waves Act at least is really good though, and well-written, and some important things happen in it so I don't just want to throw it away...
I felt the little digression on economics courtesy of Sakura felt a bit forced or out of place.
Hmm, you're probably right.
in canon its a combination of spiritual and physical energy, and there isn't really a 'reserve' of it. Many instances in canon have character recovering from using too much chakra pretty quick, with some ill-defined threshold of chakra exhaustion that causes immediate collapse.
Canon kinda seems to contradict itself on this: Yes, it's stated many times that chakra is something you 'mould', though it's never explained how. But on the other hand, if you have the Byakugan for example you can SEE how much chakra someone has, and techniques which drain chakra can make someone fall unconscious or die if they 'run out'. How can someone run out of chakra if it's something you have to mould first? How can Neji see that Naruto "split his chakra even across his shadow clones" unless there is a pool of chakra to spread out?
My solution is to combine both explanations: You do have a pool of chakra running through your veins at all times, which is sufficient for 'steady state' exercise as you put it and which kills you if you run out because your organs have grown to depend on it. However, when you run out you can speed up the production of chakra by the organs in your body through conscious effort, which ninjas call "spiritual energy" because they are a bunch of superstitious dweebs. Why there is a reality-bending substance like chakra being produced in your body in the first place is an exercise left to the reader.
Originally I wanted to explain all of the above in one of the earlier chapters, but it became too much exposition and detracted from the story. A shame, really, since I put a lot of (read: way too much) time into thinking about it :P
u/None [+1] (a day later)
Yeah chakra is semi contradictory in canon. Uchiha are powerful, but they require trauma, so I think it's fair :p
u/Ardvarkeating101 [+1] Father of Learning (2 days later)
Naruro got traumatized and he didn't get, like, a dem- oh right
u/Sophronius [+2] The Need to Become Stronger (3 minutes later)
And that's it, we've caught up to the initial release of Act 1! Everyone who downloaded the zipfile from mediafire can look forward to new chapters being released each week from now on - though there may be a short hiatus as I get the next Act in order.
The challenge here is to make sure that the next arc is as interesting and original as possible, given how many times it's been done before. But if you liked what you've seen so far, then it should be fine... right?
Do let me know what you all thought of the first Act! Feedback in every form is always very welcome!
u/PL_TOC [+1] (35 minutes later)
Are you going for 3 acts? 5?
u/Sophronius [+1] The Need to Become Stronger (39 minutes later)
Honestly, at the rate it's going, it'll be at least 5 and very probably more. With 5000 words a chapter, and maybe 60 chapters in total... 300000 words? I mean, that's a lot of story.
I feel like my beta reader should have maybe warned me about this at some point.
(In all seriousness, I do kinda worry that the story's massive size and chapter lengths combined with the prose might scare off newer readers - lots of short and snappy chapters generally works better with fanfiction, I think)
u/PL_TOC [+1] (46 minutes later)
How many beta readers do you have? Do you need some for plot, structure, creative or perhaps grammar, diction, syntax. Or maybe Japanese cultural or canon experts?
u/Sophronius [+2] The Need to Become Stronger (51 minutes later)
Just one, but he's a really good writer himself (and a historian to boot). I also gave the full Act 1 to about 60 other people here on R/rational, but almost none of the buggers actually left any feedback!
I can certainly use more beta readers: I'm definitely a bit concerned about the structure of the next act and its originality in particular, as my only beta reader never actually watched Naruto. Why, do you know any or are you volunteering? :p
u/PL_TOC [+1] (an hour later)
Well you're probably going to want to decide if you're going to confine the narrative to a structure with acts or just have a serial with arcs.
As for beta reading, I do have time to help you out in the form of general criticism, but I have dark tastes. Let me catch up with what is written. PM me and I'll reply with the type of feedback I'd give once I've caught up.
u/Sophronius [+1] The Need to Become Stronger (an hour later)
yeah, arcs is probably the better word.
But cool! Glad to hear you have time. Now I'm curious what you mean by "dark tastes". The story can get pretty dark, but this isn't going to be Time Braid if that's what you're hoping for :p
u/None [+1] (a day later)
I'd be down to be a beta reader. I can confine my comments to writing style if my constant commenting on the world you're building gets irritating :p
I've watched the whole anime and read most of the manga, relatively well-versed in fanon cliches.
u/Sophronius [+1] The Need to Become Stronger (a day later)
No no, I love your line by line comments! That sort of thing is very helpful in getting a better idea of how my story comes across.
I could send you the next Act, but I have to warn you: Right now it's still too similar to canon for my tastes and so I was planning to modify it quite a bit. If you betaread it it would be very helpful, but the version you'd be getting would be less good than the final release.
u/None [+1] (a day later)
I'm down to do it. I could give feedback by Sunday -- I have stuff Friday that'll keep me busy till Saturday. That work?
u/eaglejarl [+2] (7 days later)
Quick question: at the start of the chapter Kakashi traps Naruto and Sasuke in a genjutsu without them realizing it. Later on Sasuke says that he can see Kakashi's chakra when he (Kakashi) casts a genjutsu. Why didn't Sasuke notice what was going on?
u/Sophronius [+1] The Need to Become Stronger (7 days later)
Hey Eaglejarl! Great to see you're still reading the story. The answer is that Sasuke can see it when his Sharingan is activated - it wasn't. He had it activated during training because he knew in advance what Kakashi would be doing.
Even with his Sharingan activated, he could still have been caught unaware if Kakashi had cast it on him from behind, but it would have been much trickier to pull off.