14 KiB
Fan fictions(or any other medium really) with great world building and lots of training.
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Author: u/generalamitt *
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/5m8njy/fan_fictionsor_any_other_medium_really_with_great/
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Score: 6
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Created: 2017-01-05T19:58:45
Post:
Something like mother of learning, I can't get enough of those training montages. Of course it must also have great fights where the Male lead(yes male lead) uses what he learned. romance would be a huge bonus.
Comments:
u/chaosmosis [+14] and with strange aeons, even death may die (11 hours later)
Redacted.
this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev
u/None [+1] (6 days later)
Regarding people being peeved about the male protagonist requirement, I will note that, for reasons I do not have the data sets to properly explain, a good chunk of rational fiction and fanfiction seems to have a female protagonist.
Often, with a male writer.
I hesitate to attach any meaning to this or point any ill-informed "aha, and thus!", but it is an interesting factoid.
Personally speaking, I also prefer male leads, if only because I enjoy strong male leads doing strong male things, so perhaps my own views are biased. I will admit to having skipped a few popular things, such as Worm or Dungeon Keeper Ami, simply because the primary PoV doesn't align with my aesthetic preferences for recreational reading.
u/Roxolan [+1] Head of antimemetiWalmart senior assistant manager (7 days later)
or reasons I do not have the data sets to properly explain, a good chunk of rational fiction and fanfiction seems to have a female protagonist.
I will note that HPMOR originally took some heat for perceived unfeminism. Which did not go unnoticed; at the time I correctly predicted that his next lead would be female (possibly my only correct HPMOR-related prediction). As a data point, I notice in myself an impulse to make a protagonist female just to cover my ass.
u/Kishoto [+6] (19 hours later)
So just to be clear, OP. I wasn't trying to come down on you in any way for desiring a male protagonist. It's your eyes and brain. Value whatever you like. I was simply asking a question because your post reminded me of another one with that same caveat from months if not years back. I guess my use of the word justify probably did sound judgemental because of how people often use it but I wasn't really commenting ON your desire for one at all. Good luck in your fiction search.
Also, if you haven't already, you can probably read Chunin Exam Day (an incomplete Naruto fanfiction that's now been discontinued) if you like the leveling up sort of plot. It's groundhog day style much like MoL and was quite good for quite a while (I personally think it started to decline in its last third or so)
u/NoYouTryAnother [+3] (18 hours later)
There is actually a name for the style of writing that you're interested in - that of (Chinese?) light novels - or more specifically, wuxia/xianxia. The subreddit for these is /r/noveltranslations
I've started delving into some of the more popular ones, and their format is essentially
- non-traditionally classed underdog protagonist training (called Cultivating) + injustices aimed at protagonist + protagonist surprising everyone with his power when he fights them. Rinse, repeat.
It's basically Dragon Ball Z in novel form.
Few are as well thought out and varied in their powerups as Mother of Learning. Few (none?) are as well written. In fact, as a genre they're trash writing in a lot of ways: poor sentence structure, excessive use of awkward idiomatic phrases, extreme telling rather than showing approach to writing, inconsistencies in the rules of the world, things happening for the sake of plot all over the place, contrivedness contrivedness contrivedness to the point that what you read doesn't matter since whatever the author randomly wants to be the case next week will somehow happen regardless, somehow retaining flat 1-dimensional characters despite character development and personality growth. That might be the complete list. Some of the flaws are due to poor translations, others to the fact that these are 1000+ chapter works written at breakneck paces.
Despite that, what the genre does really, really well is writing level ups. It's sort of like reading an RPG. And some novels actually avoid most of those flaws. Perhaps the most famous author is IET (I Eat Tomatos) whose most famous work is Coiling Dragon. Coiling Dragon is great - it actually has what I consider a really pretty plot, once you get to the end and can see it. It has a levelup system which is consistent and interesting from the start, but in which levels and possibilities are new and exciting for the reader all the way up to the end. It has plot twists that actually contribute to the story's value as a story. The main character has character. The translation is not bad, though it isn't beautiful language either. If it were edited down and rebalanced by a professional author, it could be up there with some of this community's favorite works. The story had an emotional impact on me, which I didn't see coming during the first 600 chapters.
Particular to your interests, Coiling Dragon has excellent world building. Its settings move from feudal kingdom that looks somewhat feudal Chinese and somewhat European medieval, to the world at the scale of empires spanning a continent many times larger than our planet, to higher celestial realms in which you can just feel the red rocks and crumbling dust and endless empty, barren hilly vistas. The distinct and largely non-interacting places are so distinct and developed they all feel like they're from different stories.
I highly highly recommend it to you. It starts incredibly slowly - I actually skipped to Chapter 8 since the first 7 chapters are World Building a small feudal town in a kingdom in a giant empire and introducing a 5-9 yearold child going about life while interested in martial arts, which wasn't what I was there for. But trust me, it picks up and then never stops accelerating.
u/generalamitt [+7] (18 hours later)
Yea, I also noticed that the writing in almost all light novels is just bad. That is why I could never get into any LN even though admittedly they contain a lot of the themes I am looking for in a story. I guess I am just looking for another mother of learning. Your suggestion sounds interesting but I will stick to English authors for now.
u/Cuz_Im_TFK [+9] (a day later)
I 100% understand your desire for another MoL. If you find one, PLEASE let me know!
However, it does seem you're confusing Wuxia/Xianxia with Light Novels, which can easily cause you to overlook some really excellent stories, so let me elaborate a little bit:
"Light Novels" refers to Japanese works published in a specific format and length, often with a more casual writing style than "traditional" Novels. They span a wide variety of genres and settings:
- Action-Adventure
- Mystery/Psychological Thriller
- Traditional Sword-and-Sorcery Fantasy
- Historical Fantasy
- Transported/Reincarnated (in)to a Different World
- Slice-of-(Highschool-)Life
- Trapped-in-a-Videogame
- Romance
- Sports
- Supernatural
- etc.
On the other hand, wuxia/xianxia are Chinese works (either published or posted as web serials) and are more like a "genre" of their own, rather than being "the Chinese version of Light Novels". In other words, they're much more similar to one another in terms of plot, setting, tropes, themes, values, and story elements (like "Cultivation" and "Martial Arts") than they are to Light Novels of any genre.
That said, the wuxia/xianxia information is secondhand knowledge, as I haven't read any yet myself (though I've been looking for one with an MC who has values I can mostly relate with, though that seems to be a stumbling block of its own), so take it with a grain of salt.
But if you didn't like wuxia/xianxia, there's no reason you wouldn't like certain types of LNs. Similarly, if you tried an LN in a certain genre, there's no reason you wouldn't like LNs of a different genre, wuxia/xianxia, or just a different LN even within the same genre, since they're so varied.
If you want to give an LN series an honest try, as a fellow Mother of Learning fan, avid LN reader, and someone who LOVES gradual power-ups and watching characters use them creatively to win, I'd recommend:
The Rising of the Shield Hero – Very different from MoL, has numerical stat/level values, definitely not "rational fiction"—for example, a lot characters hold the idiot ball, but that usually ends up being a disadvantage for the MC, which is an interesting twist—but the MC himself is pretty rational and, given his disadvantageous circumstances, has to use his brain and whatever he can get his hands on to survive and succeed, especially when there are powerful idiots around him that won't listen to reason. Overall, super entertaining and I recommend it.
DanMachi – If you don't care as much about the "rational" side of things and just want something more on the classical "Heroic Journey" or "Naruto" end of the power-fantasy spectrum (starting from nothing and succeeding because of hard work, determination, risking your life, wanting to be a hero, and love) that has great incremental power growth and elements of romance, then check this one out.
Hope this was helpful.
Cheers!
u/cjet79 [+6] (an hour later)
You might like Arcane Emperor. Its an original fantasy. MC accidentally teleports himself to a world with status screens and leveling. His main advantage over everyone in this world is he has a special method of training in his sleep. There is romance, which I disliked, but you are asking for.
https://royalroadl.com/fiction/8463
Downside is that I really wouldn't call it rational fiction.
u/Cuz_Im_TFK [+2] (a day later)
Is it complete?
u/cjet79 [+2] (2 days later)
No
u/generalamitt [+1] (an hour later)
Great suggestion, thanks!
u/GrecklePrime [+3] (2 days later)
I know this is incredibly useful as I don't actually remember the name of it, but someone posted a link to a fun quest back in late 2015 on this board about a guy attending an incredibly cut throat magic college. It had some romance, male protagonist and had some good training montages. Year One out of Four was finished but the author didn't want to start year two until at least 2017 to focus on other projects.
I honestly can't remember where it was hosted. It was on a forum where I had to register, the male protagonist was an artist and devolved a unique magical ability based on art and illusion I think? I really enjoyed it and maybe you can help me find it again.
u/Atilme [+3] (3 days later)
Polyhistor Academy. Here's the link, like you said though needs an account to access, since it's in the NSFW section.
u/GrecklePrime [+1] (3 days later)
Thanks!! This should fit OP's criteria nicely.
u/callmebrotherg [+3] now posting as /u/callmesalticidae (45 minutes later)
Why do you need a male lead?
u/696e6372656469626c65 [+7] I think, therefore I am pretentious. (12 hours later)
I'm not the OP, but I imagine it's probably because he has an easier time identifying with male protagonists. Not sure why he's getting so heavily downvoted for it.
u/callmebrotherg [+10] now posting as /u/callmesalticidae (12 hours later)
As I recall, we briefly had some Redpill-types on here at one point. Either they shut up or left, but I get the impression that the subreddit doesn't approve and that at least some members might be downvoting out of a suspicion that this is another one and a desire to shut it down before it starts.
(I remember at least one Redpiller who similarly made lots of requests for male protags, explaining that having "rational female characters" just wasn't realistic, and wondered if this was more of the same)
u/BadGoyWithAGun [+1] (5 days later)
Human female leads presenting with male rationality is definitely off-putting to me, as are ratfics with embedded author tracts on gender theory.
u/DangerouslyUnstable [+3] (10 days later)
What exactly is male rationality?
u/h20masta [+2] (a day later)
Male lead, check
Romance, check
Fighting, check
Fantasy setting, check
u/Kishoto [+4] (27 minutes later)
The male lead requirement rings a bell; are you the same person that posted a similar request thread with that same caveat? And your justification was that you find you connect better:more easily with male leads?
u/generalamitt [+14] (2 hours later)
Why do I need to "justify" myself?, It is just a preference...and no it wasn't me.
u/eaglejarl [-1] (5 hours later)
Why do I need to "justify" myself?
It's simply that emphasizing "male lead" is a very unusual request around here and it comes off more than a bit sexist. I suspect that /u/Kishoto is trying to read charitably and asking if there's a specific reason you need a male lead.
u/foobanana [+23] (5 hours later)
it comes off more than a bit sexist
That's a bit of a stretch, it's not uncommon for people to identify more with protagonists who are the same .
u/eaglejarl [+3] (6 hours later)
That's a bit of a stretch, it's not uncommon for people to identify more with protagonists who are the same .
Perhaps, but based on the comments in this thread I think it's a reaction that multiple people are having.
u/CeruleanTresses [+4] (a day later)
The part that gave me pause was that he went out of his way to emphasize it--"Male lead(yes male lead)". That doesn't automatically mean sexism, but it gave me a weird vibe.
u/foobanana [+1] (14 hours later)
Agreed!