29 KiB
[RT] Boy discovers black dragon egg.
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Author: u/h20masta *
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Score: 13
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Created: 2017-01-06T21:26:50
Post:
Comments:
u/CeruleanTresses [+8] (2 days later)
I've read most of the story (through chapter 26) and intend to read the rest of it. I like the attention you've given to worldbuilding and I'm interested to see where the story goes.
I think you already possess the most important writing skill: work ethic. You've shown real dedication to your craft, and your story by writing so much. Continuing to write prolifically is the best way not only to complete projects, but to improve your skills. I'm also happy to see that you've been receptive to criticism, since that's probably the second-most-important thing.
Since you've been looking for critique, I have a few suggestions:
The story would really benefit from a stronger feeling of direction and urgency. Forte has some long-term goals, but it's not until many chapters in that he really lays them out; up until then, it mostly it feels like he's just meandering and reacting to the situations he happens upon. It's important to for the reader to feel that Forte is always actively moving toward a goal that's important to him. One of the times I felt most engaged with the story was when Forte coveted that slaver's fancy sword enough to risk his life for it--even though it was a petty want, it was a sincere and motivating one. It's that sense that the hero really wants to succeed that gets the audience invested in that success. So I think it would make your story more gripping if you really emphasized Forte's desire to achieve a specific and significant goal (e.g. his desire to rule a city, although I worry that that dream is too distant to feel urgent), and clearly showed that desire driving his actions throughout the story.
I find it hard to emotionally engage with most of the characters, and I especially find it hard to root for Forte. With the other characters it's just because they're not very developed; like the other commenter said, it would be good to practice fleshing out characters other than the point-of-view guy (this will help you improve at conveying information about a character without the advantage of the reader being inside their head). With Forte, however, the main issue is that he's just not a sympathetic character. He feels a lot like someone playing an RPG--just going around killing people and taking their stuff (those poor dwarves ;_;), caring only about getting more money and raising his stats. It doesn't really feel like Forte is invested in anything or anyone around him, so how can I be invested in him? Now, it's fine for Forte to be kind of a dick; there's nothing wrong with writing a self-interested protagonist. But there are a few things you could do to help the reader emotionally engage with him in spite of his not being a traditionally "good" hero.
- Giving him a well-defined moral code would help. That code can be anything you want, as long as it's consistent. (Don't have him internally monologue a description of his code or anything like that, just show it through his actions--show where he draws the line.) Right now he pretty much just takes what he wants, and although we see him judging the immoral behavior of others, it doesn't seem like he imposes any moral boundaries on himself. He needs some kind of a moral center, however villainous, to flesh him out.
- Give him one or two things he really cares about, and show how much those things matter to him. For example, in the current version of the story, I don't really feel like he cares about Nightmare--he's affectionate toward him when they're together, but during the chapters when Nightmare was missing, Forte didn't seem to care at all apart from being mildly concerned about not having his protection. Those chapters are a great opportunity for you to get the reader invested in Forte's concern for his dragon companion. You can also show him caring deeply about achieving his goal--right now, he'll sort of idly consider how he can achieve things he wants, but I don't really feel his emotional investment in his dream of ruling a city.
Number 2 is critical, because having your character care about something both makes them more relatable to the reader, and gives you opportunities to build tension and pathos by threatening the thing they care about. Think of this "caring" as a bond that ties your character into the story and raises the stakes. (One of my favorite stories has a protagonist who is probably a clinical sociopath, and could easily have been totally unsympathetic and boring...but because he had just one friend he sincerely cared about, I was able to relate to him and become invested in his story. Nightmare could easily play that role for Forte.)
There's a lot of unnecessary detail you could cut. I'm thinking in particular of the meticulous tracking of how many silvers each character possesses at different points throughout the story. Readers don't need the exact numbers, just a general idea of the practical implications of the character's current wealth (e.g. whether they're desperately in need of money for basic survival, vs being basically OK, vs having plenty to spare). When you're considering whether to include a detail, ask yourself, "What does including this detail accomplish in the story? Is it important to the plot? Is it important for fleshing out a character or location? Is it important for foreshadowing" If the detail doesn't have any such utility, then it may be important for you to know it as the author, but it doesn't need to go on the page.
There are often things you "tell" that would be more compelling if "shown." This is one of those things that just takes practice to develop an eye for.
Sometimes Forte wins/survives dangerous encounters because of his clever tactics; sometimes because of a deus ex machina (I'm thinking in particular of the glowy eyes magic super saiyan thing with the raptors). The former is more satisfying, so I would recommend sticking with that as much as possible. I do like that Forte experiences both victories and defeats.
Try not to resolve setbacks too quickly, as it can feel unsatisfying. For example, I was a little disappointed when Forte's encounter with the orcs went immediately from them beating him unconscious and tying him up, to "let's be friends." It didn't feel like a real setback, since Forte didn't have to struggle to get out of it. Most of the tension in stories comes from the protagonist struggling against setbacks, so it's important not to let them fizzle out!
I'd love to see more significant female characters. Right now it's pretty much just the princess, who hasn't had any direct involvement in the plot and comes across more as a caricature than a person.
Forte is so young that it's sometimes hard for me to suspend my disbelief when it comes to his combat prowess, as well as how seriously the adult characters take him. I would suggest maybe aging him up a few years, unless there's something about the plot that absolutely requires him to start his journey as a ten-year-old. A really competent and clever young teenager is much more believable than a really competent and clever preteen. (Edit: After reading a bit more, I saw that he's 15 now, which surprised me--it definitely didn't feel like 5 years had passed in the story).
I also want to add that, when I talk about showing that Forte cares about goals/people/things, I'm not saying that you have to make him really emotionally demonstrative. Even undemonstrative characters can be shown to feel strong emotions; the outward signs are just more subtle. A brief, closed-lipped smile can mean mild satisfaction for one character and elation for another. It's up to you how you want Forte to convey his emotions, as long as the reader can tell when something really matters to him.
That's all I can think of for now. I hope you will find this useful and not too discouraging! After all, I wouldn't have read so far or written all of this if I didn't think you were off to a good start. Keep it up!
u/h20masta [+3] (2 days later)
edit:
Alright, just read your critique, and I agree with everything you said.
Urgency or direction: I am formally introducing the "big bad" (think Voldemort, galbatorix, Sauron) next chapter in the form of Nightmare's warning about Ismas, a dark tyrant whose rise again was prophesied. He was briefly mentioned by the elf Leif in the elven city. My introduction of him is kind of weak though. It's literally just Nightmare telling Forte about him sensing that Ismas was rising again, and that Ismas had control of the king. And is it too late in the story to introduce him? If so, I'll have to go back and write this in.
Emotional engagement with characters, particularly between Forte and Nightmare. The shortcoming here was both a product of my inexperience in writing as well as the rush of releases between chapters 13-19. I think this might be the weakest point of the story, since I currently just can't think of how to make Forte a sympathetic main character.
Female characters. I simply find it difficult to write female characters in a story where so far most characters have been swinging maces and swords around. I might fit them in as supportive characters such as magicians, or shopkeepers, so that it makes sense.
The age/money issue. This is going to take some serious rewriting that I sort of dread. But I am already rewriting the prologue, so we'll see how it goes.
Here is the draft of Chapter 36 by the way.
The italics got lost. But when Nightmare speaks, it should be in italics.
Chapter 36:
The miners surrounded Forte and Nightmare as if they were heroes.
“I heard stories about hunters fighting wyverns, but to see it with my own eyes…”
“Incredible. Simply incredible. I’ll tell my grandchildren about this battle. A lone man, against a fearsome wyvern!”
Nightmare snorted loudly.
Disperse this rabble, Forte. I need to speak with you in private.
Forte nodded.
“And your dragon too. So majestic!”
We may let them stay a while longer.
Forte laughed at Nightmare’s vanity. The miners continued to clamor until Forte silenced them with his hand.
“The wyvern has been defeated. Tomorrow, we celebrate! But for now, let me rest, and let my dragon rest,” said Forte.
Frank Strongarm stepped forward and began speaking. “He sure as hell deserves the rest. Forte the wyvern slayer. Let’s call it a night, men.”
The miners dispersed, and a weary Forte walked back to his stone house with Nightmare. Nightmare slept outside, but they could still communicate through their dragon and master bond.
“So what did you need to tell me?” Forte asked Nightmare.
The dragon stayed silent for a while, and then began to speak.
These are dangerous times. I feel the presence of the dark tyrant Ismas of the Storm spreading throughout the lands. He may not have a physical form yet, but you must not underestimate the dark tyrant—his tendrils of influence have already spread through Varia. The Rottheim king has been corrupted. This, I know. “King Richard? The one who ordered the death of my family?” Forte asked, suddenly intent. Thunder cracked, and it began to rain outside.
One and the same. King Richard has fallen into the dark tyrant’s grasps. How, I know not. The dark tyrant’s rise has been foretold. We must tread carefully to escape his gaze. We are not ready to face his wrath.
“How do you know all this about Ismas?”
How I know is beyond your comprehension.
Forte mused over the thought as he drifted into sleep, exhausted.
Vaun rang the bell, and then waited patiently outside a large, stately manor with a sign prominently displaying the words Property of the Leblancs hanging from the door. He was delivering the potion of eternal sleep to his client, an affluent aristocrat who was rumored to have a beautiful daughter.
“Who is it?” a sweet voice asked from the manor.
“Delivery for mister Leblanc,” he replied, eager to rid his pockets of the forbidden potion, the draught of eternal sleep.
The door opened, and a girl with long blond locks stood in the doorway.
“Come in, and wait in the guest room. I’ll fetch my pa,” she said pleasantly.
Vaun was enamored, but he remembered his mission and walked inside.
Game of chess, slip into his wine.
u/CeruleanTresses [+3] (2 days later)
Don't despair about the challenge making Forte sympathetic! The reader is automatically inclined to sympathize with the POV character, so you shouldn't need to dramatically change his characterization to accomplish that. I think that emphasizing his bond with Nightmare would be a huge step in the right direction. Giving him moments of emotional vulnerability will also help a lot.
I would definitely agree that you should lay the groundwork for the rise of Ismas much earlier on. It will feel a lot more natural to have Forte become aware of him as a threat organically, rather than having Nightmare do an exposition dump many chapters in.
Is the implication that the oncoming storm we've been hearing about is a manifestation of Ismas? You could emphasize early on that the storm is unnatural--perhaps a storm that size should never have arisen in this climate, or it's moving in ways that don't make sense for a natural storm, or contact has been totally lost with outposts that the storm has reached. Perhaps there are fragmentary historical records of storms like this being associated with cataclysms. Allusions to Ismas could appear in the magic-related books and locations Forte has been seeking out.
Regarding the corruption of the king, Forte has good reason to keep tabs on what the guy who murdered his parents is up to, so he could find evidence throughout the early chapters that the king's behavior has become erratic (the mithril thing is a good start there). Or whatever you think would work best to lay the foundation that this king is going to be an agent of the Big Bad.
Re: female characters, it is okay to write women characters who fight with melee weapons. It won't make the story unrealistic. Although women don't build as much muscle mass as men do, using swords is still possible; swordfighting women have existed historically, and there are still women who practice swordfighting today. There are also many other types of weapons your female characters can use that don't depend as much on physical strength, which would have the side benefit of adding variety to the action scenes.
Having said that, don't be afraid to include major characters who drive the plot without being directly involved in combat! There are a lot of ways that major characters can contribute (or antagonize) that don't require personally beating stuff up. In fact, you've already shown Vaun using his business acumen, rather than combat skill, to build up his status and start driving the plot (I assume the Leblanc thing is going to be important).
Just as a few examples, you could have women as: leaders, scouts, spies, diplomats, tradespeople, craftspeople, bureaucrats, healers, assassins, survivalists, scholars, wise old magic ladies, etc. The project of building up a city is going to require a lot more than just combat skills--as you've already demonstrated by having Forte use both combat and non-combat methods to get his outpost up and running.
The age/money rewrites are probably gonna be tedious, yeah, but the plus side is that they won't require you to tear any plot stuff up by the roots. That should pretty much just be a matter of editing the descriptions in those parts. Don't be intimidated!
Your latest chapter draft reminded me that I also had a comment on the Vaun interludes. I think they often feel out of place and like they aren't necessary for the story. You've been establishing that Vaun is building his fortune, but you can easily just have that be something Forte discovers the next time they encounter each other (or just hears through the grapevine, if Vaun is going to be making big waves before the next time they meet), without interrupting the flow of the story.
u/h20masta [+2] (2 days later)
Is the implication that the oncoming storm we've been hearing about is a manifestation of Ismas? You could emphasize early on that the storm is unnatural--perhaps a storm that size should never have arisen in this climate, or it's moving in ways that don't make sense for a natural storm, or contact has been totally lost with outposts that the storm has reached. Perhaps there are fragmentary historical records of storms like this being associated with cataclysms. Allusions to Ismas could appear in the magic-related books and locations Forte has been seeking out.
That's exactly what it is. I did mention it briefly in the elf chapter, but details tend to get lost when they are mentioned only once, and briefly. I'm actually in the process of rewriting the early chapters bit by bit, and will be correcting for foreshadowing.
The age/money rewrites are probably gonna be tedious, yeah, but the plus side is that they won't require you to tear any plot stuff up by the roots. That should pretty much just be a matter of editing the descriptions in those parts. Don't be intimidated!
You're right. I'll probably do that as I rewrite.
Your latest chapter draft reminded me that I also had a comment on the Vaun interludes. I think they often feel out of place and like they aren't necessary for the story. You've been establishing that Vaun is building his fortune, but you can easily just have that be something Forte discovers the next time they encounter each other (or just hears through the grapevine, if Vaun is going to be making big waves before the next time they meet), without interrupting the flow of the story.
The truth is that I intend Vaun to be an exceedingly important side character, and yet haven't worked out how yet. His is kind of just there for the sake of being relevant for now, which is bad story writing on my part. My general plan with him is that he has a stronger sense of morals than Forte, and somehow that will pit him against Forte in the future.
Also just uploaded the rewritten prologue. Cut out a lot of unnecessary stuff.
u/CeruleanTresses [+3] (2 days later)
I genuinely love that idea for Vaun! It sounds like he will make a great foil to Forte. Maybe, instead of cutting to interludes about Vaun, you could have them cross paths repeatedly during the story. Not only would you be keeping Vaun in the picture, you'd be building up the dynamic between the two of them, which will pay off when they come into conflict.
Depending on how much of a presence you want that dynamic to have in the story, you could even remove the part where they split up in the first place and have them continue working together, up until the point when their incompatible morals get in the way. On the opposite end of the spectrum, you could have some unknown person thwarting Forte's goals, and he eventually discovers it was Vaun the whole time (and that he created his own adversary by helping Vaun get his start). It's totally up to you how you want to play it.
I'm excited to see the rewritten prologue! I'll read it over lunch and let you know what I think.
u/h20masta [+2] (2 days later)
I love this idea
On the opposite end of the spectrum, you could have some unknown person thwarting Forte's goals, and he eventually discovers it was Vaun the whole time (and that he created his own adversary by helping Vaun get his start). It's totally up to you how you want to play it.
And will be planning on using it.
Again, thanks for the help. I'm glad you enjoy the story as much as I enjoy writing it :)
u/CeruleanTresses [+3] (2 days later)
No problem! If you'd like to go that route, I'd suggest laying the groundwork by having Forte and Vaun experience some minor conflict or tension during the early part where they're working together, to establish the contrast in their worldviews. That way it won't come out of nowhere when the adversary turns out to be Vaun (and will feel a lot more organic than having both characters basically announce "I feel like we're destined to meet again for significant events" like they do now).
u/h20masta [+3] (2 days later)
and will feel a lot more organic than having both characters basically announce "I feel like we're destined to meet again for significant events" like they do now).
My god that's exactly what I did... I have a lot to revise.
u/i_dont_know [+1] (6 days later)
Curious about the story with the clinical sociopath. Mind sharing a name/link/mini review?
u/CeruleanTresses [+1] (6 days later)
I'd love to recommend it since it's great, but before I do--are you okay with going into it already knowing that one of the characters is a sociopath? It's kind of a slow burn in the actual story--it's not exactly a twist, more of a gradual process of little things adding up until you come to understand that that's what his deal is. Knowing it from the start might change your experience, though there's plenty to enjoy about the story aside from that. Is that okay?
I'll put the link behind a spoiler so that it's here if you want it: Link here
u/narfanator [+7] (10 hours later)
@h20masta, if this is your story - Serious props for writing as much as you have. Seriously! I cannot give you enough credit for that. Sorry if I put you off, I am... kinda critical.
Edit: Ah, do you want criticism? I think I have some very constructive comments for you. I skipped around in your story a bunch trying to get more of an idea as to your progression as a writer.
u/h20masta [+1] (15 hours later)
Yes, this is my story. I'd love criticism!
u/narfanator [+7] (22 hours later)
Fantastic! Note that I may have missed something from jumping around, rather than reading straight through.
You're extremely high on detail, and seem to be tracking the world very precisely. This is a good thing.
You are very low on description, and other characters have weak "voices".
I think you can "most improve" if you deliberately go after these two things. These are my recommendations:
The next time Forte visits somewhere new, describe the place in lavish detail. Use outlandish vocabulary, lots of punctuation; don't just tell us what it looks like, tell us what it feels like. Seriously, go overboard - then sleep on it, and cut out at least half the word count.
Write a chapter/installment from the perspective of a recurring, non-main character. This person should have their own name and be a different kind of character than Forte, but still be capable and intelligent. Ideally, have them participate in a significant event that will later effect the main story.
Finally: 3) The next opportunity you have to pass the Bechtel Test, do it. (Two named female characters having a conversation about something other than a man).
These are not intended to directly improve your story; they're what I think will min/max your skill growth as a writer (which in turn, would improve your story).
Keep it up, dude!
u/h20masta [+3] (23 hours later)
Thanks for the remarks. The first and second ones are very interesting, especially the first.
I remember reading Harry Potter or Eragon for the first time, and getting completely engrossed in the sheer amount of visual detail and description, but in the grind of writing forgot about that. It's hard writing detail while also varying words so it doesn't seem like I'm repeating the same words over and over.
I have a fairly extensive vocabulary compared to most people, but "fairly extensive" just doesn't cut it when writing a novel.
For example, simply describing Forte cast a fire spell is difficult to do, because the wording has to be different every single time.
u/narfanator [+8] (a day later)
I mean, yeah, but you don't have to do it every time. Describe it the first time, and then any time the description is significant. The first time you describe a fireball, we don't know what it's like, that's why you're telling us. The second time? We know; you can skip it, mostly - you may want to keep some of it for the poetry. It's also like conversations between characters; you set up tempo and voices by using many different ways to say "they said" (spoke, yelled, mumbled....) but at some point you've established the character's voices and can just alternate quotes, and the reader can follow along.
I'm worried that you didn't mention the Bechtel Test. Statistically, stories that pass the test do better*. Another way to look at it is that the exercise of passing it has high information quotient for you as an author - because it's the most different from what you're familiar with, it can teach you way more than anything else. Yet another way to look at it is the information quotient for the story - again, since it's the most different, it'll cover a part of the world and story you otherwise wouldn't explore.
- Specifically, movies that pass have better box office numbers: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-dollar-and-cents-case-against-hollywoods-exclusion-of-women/
u/narfanator [+5] (an hour later)
I read the first handful of chapters. The prose is kind of meh, but the rest (world, character intelligence) seems decent so far. What's the appeal?
u/h20masta [+2] (an hour later)
What do you mean by appeal?
u/narfanator [+10] (an hour later)
In general, why do you like this story?
In specifics, why do you think this sub will like this story?
u/None [+12] (5 hours later)
Look like self-promotion. That's not necessarily bad to me since we have authors posting their own work on this subreddit.
Whether the story is rational fiction is another matter.
u/h20masta [+9] (15 hours later)
If this is the definition of rational fiction
The main character uses (or tries to use) rationalist and scientific methods to demystify seemingly mysterious phenomena.
Then yes, there are many elements. Here's an excerpt.
Forte considered his options. He didn’t need to kill the hill giants, he merely had to relocate them. And thus, he needed to find out what was keeping them in this particular valley. He called upon his pirate companions for reconnaissance and consultation.
They began to investigate the area. He noticed that the hill giants slept on the grass, and spent their time herding a flock of lambs. The lambs were the majority of the hill giant’s food. Forte watched as the hill giants casually knocked away wolves and the occasional raptor that tried to poach a lamb. At night, a single hill giant kept the lambs safe from predators.
His pirates reported that the giants did in fact speak the same language as them, but a very slow version. Plans started forming in Forte’s head.
He considered looking for toxic berries and poisoning their livestock, but the quantity of toxin was barely enough to kill a small animal, much less a towering hill giant. He had a better plan.
u/narfanator [+2] (10 hours later)
Oh! That makes more sense.
u/h20masta [+4] (15 hours later)
I think the story fits with the genre of rational fiction, which would appeal to this sub!
u/KnickersInAKnit [+3] (2 days later)
I'm interested in the worldbuilding, but the way this is written is...simplistic. There's a lot of telling, and not much showing. The prose comes across as Forte did this, someone said that, and then Forte decided to do something else instead. Or Forte beat them up and took their money. Nightmare's interesting, but he's not got much character - he's half of the dynamic duo here, and all I know about him after reading all the chapters is that he's good-looking, breathes a lot of fire, has mysterious magical ability and eats a ton of meat. Overall, I feel like there's been a lot of emphasis on the world and the magic system but the story needs to have the characters and prose fleshed out to sell it.
u/h20masta [+2] (2 days later)
Got it. You're right. I think prose is a weakness of mine as an author, but it's something I'm working on.
You're right in that I need to add more visual and descriptive detail to every encounter.