21 KiB
[NSFW][RT][HF] Magical Creatures III.1: Just Who the Hell
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Author: u/Soren_Tycho Clothing-optional Spacetime*
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Score: 15
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Created: 2017-05-19T16:47:34
Post:
Comments:
u/Bowbreaker [+5] Solitary Locust (a day later)
Hrm. The 'only talk when explicitly allowed, despite the fact that you both know this place better and have friends other than me here' makes me feel uncomfortable. Especially since it happened by mistake and Blue-Eyes didn't ask how he can reverse it (or even just temporarily turn it off) despite that. Seems both irresponsible and sad. It seems to limit Lyra in her being. And it distracted me from fully enjoying any other sexy stuff mentioned quite as much.
I guess it's just not my kink?
u/Frommerman [+0] (2 days later)
Thing is, if she didn't want that to happen, Blue-Eyes would have been spiked immediately. And if she ever doesn't want it to happen and Blue-Eyes fails to release her, he gets spiked immediately.
I don't remember the exact quote, but it was said at one point that one "shouldn't assume anything about someone else's scene because there's probably something you're missing."
u/Bowbreaker [+3] Solitary Locust (2 days later)
She didn't want that to happen. Not specifically. She's just so submissive that he wants him to do to her whatever he pleases. According to her own thoughts she'd consent to being killed by him if it pleases him, despite not being suicidal and in fact hoping that such a thing doesn't please him.
What bothers me in this specific case is the apparent permanence. Imagine if she were really into not being able to use her arms and having her abilities restricted. You know, as a sexy fantasy. Imagine if then He decided to amputate her arms. She likes her arms. She needs them for certain magic stuff. Maybe she even had a shared hobby of wood carving. But of course she'd gladly give that up, and isn't it similar to being in sexy bondage, except always? Now imagine that neither of them even clearly decided on the amputation. During an awesome scene it just fit to cut her arms off and whoops there they go. But he enjoys her new look and dependency so its fine with her because she's his, and thus it should be fine with everyone, right?
And that's how some of the last few permanent changes through ritual magic felt to me. Like cutting in to her. Permanently limiting her abilities and, by extension, her self. All without thinking about the consequences. You could say that amputation seems worse but honestly I'd say that especially in this universe (if not in every universe) editing the mind is much more limiting. Hell, they haven't even figured out the exact limitations of what's happening to her on this front. She is from this world and doesn't know it. He is doing it and definitely has no clue. And yet they are making potentially permanent decisions (if you can call his blind and careless stumblings even that) that go towards limitation and dependency with no heed for the future of her as, well, a person.
"shouldn't assume anything about someone else's scene because there's probably something you're missing."
Sure. But it also seems like they themselves are in some regards missing just as much, if not more. And if inexperienced people are doing serious edge play with one-sided repercussions it isn't everyone's job to look away. Sometimes people don't know what's best for them. Especially when they have a [maximize Master's pleasure] drive stronger than most humans drive to eating and reproduction combined.
u/Soren_Tycho [+1] Clothing-optional Spacetime (12 days later)
Thank you. I could spend like three hours replying to this comment. Maybe I will later, but here's a start.
[Frommerman] Thing is, if she didn't want that to happen, Blue-Eyes would have been spiked immediately.
Would he?
if inexperienced people are doing serious edge play with one-sided repercussions it isn't everyone's job to look away
Quite. It's a shame what was going on that was a problem seems to have been completely invisible to everyone watching (this is not sarcasm - it's a serious hazard in BDSM on earth, and a hazard times a billion in Pandemonium with all this heavy-duty sex magick flying around). Probably half of FetLife's message database is people arguing about whether the bad thing noone saw until it was too late should have gotten seen.
Now, here's the question: where did the voice bondage come from? During the ritual Blue-Eyes is able to produce some pretty complicated temporary mental rewiring (safely and advisedly or not) and volitional inception ("slipping the intent into her...") and reliably get exactly what he meant to do each time with really terrifying precision for a total noob and also get (apparently) nothing more. In order to mark her he has to explicitly ask whatever freefloating coherent extrapolated volition service they seem to have blundered into to do something permanent. So, did he at any point intend the seemingly-permanent voice-bondage effect? Have we so far observed the magic to do wholly-unintentional things unrelated to previous commands? He takes responsibility for it, but, should he?
This is a genuine question. This is ratfic, albeit ratfic where as I'm increasingly learning the author could stand to nip-slip his laws of magic a little more freely.
u/Frommerman [+0] (2 days later)
First off, succubi regenerate any injury (except those caused by consecrated materials and maybe certain specific bindings) with nectar. Cutting off her arm would probably be really painful, but she would grow it back unless Blue-Eyes somehow managed to cast some kind of permanent binding on the wound. Considering that, in book one, Lyra was worried about the consecration on Cleavage running out before they got through the Perfekti, there is at least some evidence that no binding in this system is truly permanent.
Sure, maybe they get into a situation where Blue-Eyes tries to use consecrated metal to permanently injure her, but there is an argument that this simply isn't possible:
Consider the size of Sade Hall. Blue-Eyes thought it might stretch on for actual light-years, and every room we've seen so far has had several people in it. The total population of Sade Hall has to be pretty close to uncountable, assuming the sections of the Hall we've seen are normal.
Given this, and given that the number of people born in the Hall is likely pretty close to zero (does nectar turning you into yourself cause auto-abortions or no periods? Very possibly. Also alien physiology. Also human/succubi pairings cannot reproduce), it is reasonably safe to assume that all population growth is through immigration.
In addition, Blue-Eyes has seen...thousands or millions of people in the Hall already, just given the sheer population of every space he's been in. And he hasn't seen anyone get spiked yet. Lyra uses it as a curse, but the overall rate of consent control activation appears to be rather low.
Taken altogether: I posit that succubi literally cannot be created such that their desires are not in line with those of the human they grew off of. Given that they are symbiotic with humans it makes sense that this would be the case. Spikings do happen, but Lyra has only expressed concern about this happening with "Creepers," who explicitly do nonconsentual things to others. Every other time she's talked about it has been as a curse. A succubus is made such that their desires are in line with their human, and as a result anything the succubus does not desire is highly likely to also be something their human does not desire. Pet does not desire to have her arms cut off, or to be murdered (though she would let it happen), Blue Eyes does not desire either of those things to happen to her.
Rather than that being lucky or a coincidence (as it would be in the real world), I posit that this is just how things work in Pandemonium.
u/None [+3] (2 days later)
[deleted]
u/Frommerman [+0] (2 days later)
Sure, which meant that she explicitly wanted that.
Also, Blue-Eyes didn't go so far as to elicit a safe word. Maybe because she was literally made for him and that, therefore, he wouldn't ever do something she didn't want because otherwise she would have been made to want that. There's something like a really bizarre anthropic prinicple going on here, I think. Succubi who don't conform to the wishes of their humans, and whose humans' wishes don't conform with theirs, probably can't exist. Because such pairings would get spiked sooner rather than later, and the absurd scale of just Sade Hall (only a fraction of the size of all of Pandemonium) indicates that the majority of pairings are effectively immortal, barring outside influence of some sort.
u/Soren_Tycho [+2] Clothing-optional Spacetime (4 minutes later)
"All their life in this world and all their adventures in Narnia had only been the cover and the title page: now at last they were beginning Chapter One of the Great Story which no one on earth has read..."
- C. S. Lewis, The Last Battle
Newpost here: http://sadehall.tumblr.com/post/160842846345/iii1-just-who-the-hell
u/rttf [+2] (3 hours later)
This story is just a self-insert wish-fulfillment fantasy with no plot. Why is it being posted here? It's neither rational nor rationalist.
u/Kishoto [+2] (7 hours later)
I'm curious; what evidence do you have for the SI comment?
u/rttf [+2] (7 hours later)
I took a look through his tumblr.
u/None [+2] (5 hours later)
Which no plot? The non-plot where they escape from Earth being chased by literal markov chain demons? Or the non plot where the characters learn about demon magic? Or the not plot where they travel to another world? Or the total lack of hints of a great war against Seraphim?
What lack of rationality, we are literally treated to a blow by blow(heh innuendo) of how, why, what, and motivations behind things, with hints of more in the future. So the plot is sex driven, its literally a rational story about SEX demons, that doesn't mean its not a plot, or are rationalist now also puritans?
u/rttf [+3] (7 hours later)
You seem very confused about what the plot of a story is actually supposed to be. It's not often that I link to wikipedia articles in a discussion, but I think you would really benefit from reading this.
Which no plot? The non-plot where they escape from Earth being chased by literal markov chain demons?
Or the total lack of hints of a great war against Seraphim?
These two things happened in probably the only interesting sequence of events in this story, but until they're actually relevant for anything else, that's all they're going to be. We are at book 3 now, so maybe something plot-related will appear soon.
Or the non plot where the characters learn about demon magic?
Not a plot.
Or the not plot where they travel to another world?
Not a plot.
What lack of rationality, we are literally treated to a blow by blow(heh innuendo) of how, why, what, and motivations behind things, with hints of more in the future.
Just because things are "explained" does not mean it's a rational story (or even just a story). This is world-building at best.
o the plot is sex driven, its literally a rational story about SEX demons, that doesn't mean its not a plot, or are rationalist now also puritans?
Writing a lot of sex scenes is not a plot. Saying that does not make me a puritan.
u/Kishoto [+6] (7 hours later)
The thing is, there is a coherent plot of sorts. I agree, it's moving very slowly but that's all; it's moving slowly. He's not telling a series of unrelated anecdotes; we're literally going on the journey from Earth to Sade Hall and everywhere in between. It's pretty wordy and very full of exposition (which is a good or bad thing, depending on your tastes) but there's a definitive sequence of events occurring.
BE's going on a journey to become the human partner to a magical demon girl. That's the plot.
u/None [+1] (7 hours later)
Oh good. You started aggressive, then you doubled down and included being condescending. This conservation is going to be GREAT.
Plot refers to the sequence of events inside a story which affect other events through the principle of cause and effect. The causal events of a plot can be thought of as a series of sentences linked by "and so".
Man is seed for succubus, and so the succubus inhabits his dreams, and so they form a bond, and so when she gets summoned away she finds a way back, and so she comes back, and so she saves him from the psuedo religious markov chain demon things. So she urges him to run away from horrible death, and so they go on a pretty awesome running away scene with god damn CRAZY ANGELS and shit. And so they get to The Sea, and so there is exposition about succubi, and so they journey to her home, and so they enter her home.
All along the way there are hints of bigger things going on, but the plot is literally OH GOD RUN AWAY, and now we are in a building period where the world is explained in more detail, then after we have a firm grounding in the SETTING, this is a big setting so there is a lot of exposition required.
The sex scene is literally plot fuel in every circumstance where it occurs, because the succubus is a source of FREE energy, he gets exhausted, so they have sex, they can keep running. They succubus uses that very fact as a driving factor, sex is a resource in this fiction, they use that resource intelligently, Rule 3.
They don't just run away "cause" they run away because Earth is occupied territory. The factions are not fully expounded but the conflict is obvious and I'm sure we'll get there, there is a lot of interesting stuff going on.
I will allow the fact that there are some issues with the style, the font, the flow, but none of that disqualifies this as either fiction or rational fiction.
u/rttf [+0] (21 hours later)
The "plot" can be summarized as I did in this post:
So, just to summarize, the whole "plot" so far is that the author's perfect dream girl shows up to become his sex-slave, make him immortal, ensure all his basic needs are met and take him to place where nothing can ever hurt him.
You're just writing down every detail that has happened in the hope that it somehow, almost by pure coincidence, could end up becoming a plot. I'm not denying that a plot could actually develop, but given the above it seems very unlikely.
I will allow the fact that there are some issues with the style, the font, the flow,
Can't say I had problems with any of those things.
but none of that disqualifies this as either fiction or rational fiction.
Obviously, it's fiction. Why it shouldn't be called rational fiction I also went into here, so I'm not going to go through that again.
u/Kishoto [+1] (21 hours later)
Speaking towards the four characteristics of RT fiction:
You're fundamentally incorrect about there being no plot, as discussed. Was there "no plot" on Harry's journey from the Dursleys to Diagon Alley to the Hogwards Express to the Hogwarts lake to the Sorting feast? Because that's essentially what we have, albeit much longer. We're still covering BE's entrance to this new, magical world.
There's clearly no simple "good" or "evil". The angels we saw are clearly on some sort of hidden agenda, as are the mindless creatures we met earlier. And we haven't really met any of the players in the demonverse yet but it's safe to say, based on the set up, everyone's going to be on their own agenda in the sex filled, BDSM fantasy world.
There haven't been many problems beyond the initial escape, as you pointed out. But it's clear that BE is fairly intelligent and prone to analyzing things and he has used this to minor effect with coming to understand things Lyra has explained to him such as the dismissals and other rituals. If/when higher stakes conflict does arise, we have sufficient reason to expect he'll leverage his intelligence towards an attempted solution as well.
The worldbuilding and rule set up seems fairly consistent. We, just as BE, don't know close to everything about the set up and so it's easy to think that the story behaves inconsistently but, I have to point out, every time someone points something out along that lines to the author, his response usually points to an explanation OR unexplained, spoilerific rules that will explain things later.
u/FeepingCreature [+1] GCV Literally The Entire Culture (5 hours later)
Which of the four characteristics does it least fulfill in your estimation?
[edit] Also, self-insert wish-fulfillment fantasies can totally be rational.
u/rttf [+4] (7 hours later)
So, just to summarize, the whole "plot" so far is that the author's perfect dream girl shows up to become his sex-slave, make him immortal, ensure all his basic needs are met and take him to place where nothing can ever hurt him.
Now, lets take a look at the four characteristics in the sidebar. The first is trivially satisfied since the story has no plot. The second is trivially satisfied since the story has no conflict. The third is trivially satisfied since the characters in the story haven't had any problems (aside from a pretty standard chase scene). And it's too early to say if the fourth is satisfied because, you guessed it, no rules have been given yet.
Looks like whoever wrote those characteristics had the implicit assumption that the stories posted here would either have an actual plot, include some conflicts of any kind or their characters would have any type of problem they are trying to solve. Guess they were wrong.
Re your edit: I agree that self-inserts can be rational, but not wish-fulfillment fantasies.
u/FeepingCreature [+2] GCV Literally The Entire Culture (10 hours later)
You're not wrong, per se, but I think it's too early to say that this has no plot or no conflict. (Also, the worldbuilding on its own would make it interesting.) I just think of it as a post-singularity setting dump story so far.
And I disagree that wish fulfillment fantasies cannot be rational. You can totally wish for a consistent and predictable world.
u/rttf [+2] (20 hours later)
And I disagree that wish fulfillment fantasies cannot be rational. You can totally wish for a consistent and predictable world.
I define wish-fulfillment fantasies as everything going the main characters way. He just needs to exist and every other character will automatically solve all his problems. If he actually tries to solve a problem on his own it will always work out the way he wanted or better. All of what I said has been true for this story so far, and it should be clear why such a story cannot be called rational.
u/Kishoto [+2] (21 hours later)
I mean, the setup for this story is explicitly describing a place where that is supposed to happen. The rules of the world they make it to after escaping Earth are explicitly designed to be that way. It's designed to be a literal haven for anyone's sexual fantasies. It was created TO be that.
As discussed, the chase scene was indicative of something not good; there was a real sense of tension and danger to the entire sequence. Even if you were certain he would make it out, as the protagonist, it still was uncertain enough to be entertaining.
u/IomKg [+1] (22 hours later)
(Didn't read the story so basing the comment only on what you mention)
But from what you are writing the story has a plot: "the author's perfect dream girl shows up to become his sex-slave, make him immortal, ensure all his basic needs are met and take him to place where nothing can ever hurt him."
In that case for the first requirement to be fulfilled, wouldn't there need to be some self-consistent reason for
- a girl to appear
- the girl to match the MCs definition of a "dream girl"
- the girl will want to be his sex slave
- etc. etc.
From what you are describing it sounds like these things are "just so", in which case it will not meet the 1st requirement on the side-bar.
u/FeepingCreature [+2] GCV Literally The Entire Culture (a day later)
There is a self-consistent reason for those things.
The setting building is one of the strong sides of this story, imo.
u/None [+1] (a day later)
Clicked for "Just who the hell". Did not find, "do you think we are!?". Disappointed. Clicked away.