13 KiB
[RT][FF][HF] Naruto. The Need to Become Stronger, Chapter 17: Hope and Hypocrisy
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Author: u/Sophronius The Need to Become Stronger*
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URL: https://needtobecomestronger.wordpress.com/2017/05/23/chapter-17/
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Score: 30
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Created: 2017-05-23T13:02:45
Post:
Comments:
u/Sophronius [+10] The Need to Become Stronger (an hour later)
This is another of my favourite chapters - I would love to hear what you guys think. Was this a satisfying climax to the K vs Z confrontation? Anyone want to issue bets on how the rest of the climax (2 more chapters!) between the kids and Haku will pan out?
To spur any (aspiring) writers as well as commentators that might be reading this, here is again my beta-reader's feedback (which I didn't entirely follow in this case, because I liked the original too much to rewrite it):
all in all this was an excellent fight scene. These characters make good foils for one another. They now each have outwitted eachother once.
Although I will note that doing this from the villain’s PoV means the reader won’t be as invested in the outcome as he would be if you did it from the hero’s. You can’t ramp up the tension nearly as much, this way. I’m not telling you to change it, mind you. You made your choice, and like I said, it’s a very good scene. But it’s something to consider when composing arcs. There’s the intellectual component: the story has to be believable, has to hang together, has to be interesting and difficult to predict, yet play fair with the information the reader’s given. You generally have this down pretty well. But there’s also the emotional component, which is generally what really hooks the reader. You have to set the mood, not just of scenes but of chapters and arcs, and have it progress along the curve you want, hitting highs and lows where you want them. The reader has to feel for the characters, and has to experience emotional ups and downs alongside them as he reads along. You have to plan and account for these sinus-lines of emotion just as much as you do the logistics of the battles or the intricacies of the plot.
Think of it as a musical composition. You can start out slow, or with a bang. You can build up. You can have the crescendo near the middle or near the end. But whatever you do, you have to have a flow in it. An arc. Unless you’re a modern classical composer, in which case you want it to be ugly, dissonant, and avoid any possible resemblance to something that the average person might recognise as music. I advise against doing that.
u/Gigapode [+7] (15 hours later)
I liked Zabuza's perspective. I forgot that characters from outside of Konoha don't necessarily know how the sharingan work (they must not be reading enough fanfiction).
I'd expect Haku to mop the floor with Naruto 9 times out of 10 in a fight. I would guess the traidtional Naruto inspirational speech is atempted at some point and then its 50/50 as to whether it dissuades Haku. If Kakashi gets there in time he could maybe bluff that Zabuza is dead or perhaps needs medical atention.
The beta-reader's notes are interesting, thanks.
u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped (10 hours later)
It was cleverly done. I just didn't enjoy the "villain basically wins, almost everyone except protagonists dies and the bridge gets blown up" thing.
u/None [+6] (11 hours later)
Really the Land of Waves arc is tricky to do. The arc in canon relies essentially on every character being perfectly placed to act in the only way that could possibly end in a victory for Team Seven. It is very moving, but it sort of fall apart if changed at all.
u/sicutumbo [+3] (5 hours later)
I like it. It's a satisfying conclusion. I'm curious as to why Sakura decided she needed to stay with Sasuke instead of simply move him to safety and then continue defending the villagers.
u/TofuRobber [+3] (3 days later)
Why does Kakashi refers to himself as the White Fang. In canon the White Fang is his father. Either Kakashi was reading Zabuza's mind and Zabuza was incorrectly assuming that Kakashi was the White Fang therefore Kakashi was using that against Zabuza, or you're changing canon to give Kakashi another nickname (which is fine but confusing for those familiar with canon).
I don't understand why Zabuza ran off either. He used the eight gates. It's assumed that he wasn't in a stable state of mind since he was reminiscing about the time he had to kill his friend to graduate. Giving that the last time he used the eight gates (that we're aware of) he went on a rampage and killed everybody, why would he run away this time. He even taunted Kakashi after using it. I don't believe that he would have done that and then ran off given his mental state.
Finally, why did Kakashi even go fight Zabuza If he figured out their plan. We find out that he's playing at the fourth level but I don't believe that Kakashi could have thought that was the best move. With how things are playing out he is simply doing what he wants but didn't seem to really even considering that whatever he does will even be effective at keeping his team safe. All that he did was keep Zabuza and Haku away from them (Which is great for their protection), but he must have considered that if he sacrifices himself his team might still go and get themselves killed because he left them to their own devices. And that's only if he was successful. If he died his team would have been doomed because of a gamble.
My question is, what stopped Kakashi from taking his team and hiding if his priority was his team's safety? Yes, he is the target, but if they can't find him they are not a threat. If Kakashi cared about the mission he wouldn't have blown up the bridge or more precisely kept close to Tazuna to keep him safe. I'm missing the part that suggest that whatever Kakashi did was the most reasonable thing for him to have done.
I find that things are happening because the plot demands it to happen and while it's an interesting read I have a hard time suspending my disbelief with regards to how everybody is acting.
u/Sophronius [+5] The Need to Become Stronger (4 days later)
Ooh, long review, nice!
Why does Kakashi refers to himself as the White Fang.
This is the result of Kakashi being more rational: He kept using his father's chakra blade instead of simply discarding it in favour of using a kunai like he did in canon. I mean, he even received training in tanto's as an Anbu, so I see no reason for him not to use his powerful ancestral blade. As a result he gained the nickname "Second coming of the White Fang" instead of the much lamer "Copy ninja".
You're probably right about it being confusing - overall I think I've been too eager to change little things like Tsunami's name and it throws people off.
I don't understand why Zabuza ran off either. He used the eight gates.
It's a bit questionable (which is why Kakashi was surprised), but you have to consider Zabuza's perspective: The eight gates damage the user's body (even if Zabuza was using only the first and second or so), Zabuza does not have any clones left to protect him and Kakashi up until this point seemed almost unbeatable to him. So fighting just doesn't seem worth the risk. Also, like you said, he was very much affected by Kakashi's psychological tricks at this point, just like in canon where he also lost it and was soundly beaten as a result (both times).
I also wanted to highlight the point that rational ninjas would almost never take unnecessary risks - you just don't survive to get promoted to Jonin otherwise! Zabuza's plan was never to engage someone as powerful as Kakashi head-on with his real body, because he knows he's weaker than him.
My question is, what stopped Kakashi from taking his team and hiding if his priority was his team's safety?
Essentially, this is what he would have done, except that the whole village would have died and Naruto at least would have insisted on fighting to save the Villagers. Even if they had hidden it would not have been guaranteed to work as Z+H were very quick to locate them in the past, making Kakashi suspect they have some sort of sensory technique. But yes, from a strictly selfish perspective, it probably would have been more rational for them to all dig underground and hide out for a few weeks until the threat had passed.
I find that things are happening because the plot demands it to happen and while it's an interesting read I have a hard time suspending my disbelief with regards to how everybody is acting.
Hmm, that's somewhat worrisome. Do you have any other examples, or is it just this specific case that feels off to you?
u/TofuRobber [+3] (4 days later)
It's a bit questionable (which is why Kakashi was surprised), but you have to consider Zabuza's perspective: The eight gates damage the user's body (even if Zabuza was using only the first and second or so), Zabuza does not have any clones left to protect him and Kakashi up until this point seemed almost unbeatable to him.
I also wanted to highlight the point that rational ninjas would almost never take unnecessary risks - you just don't survive to get promoted to Jonin otherwise! Zabuza's plan was never to engage someone as powerful as Kakashi head-on with his real body, because he knows he's weaker than him.
I really don't buy that. It doesn't seem like a smart move to use a flashy skill that will leave you in a worst state to escape. If he was so sure that Kakashi was stronger than him I don't believe that he thinks he could get away. He thinks Kakashi has the upper hand and knows that Kakashi is capable of tracking him. He should knows that if he doesn't die from the eight gates he'll be weaker than a bug for the next week at least. Escape through water could be his salvation (he doesn't know if Kakashi can track him in water) but all Kakashi has to do is keep up with him and wait for him to suffer from the backlash. Even if he gets to the water, with his gates open he isn't exactly stealthy. His enhanced state is only temporary. What makes him think that that's enough time to run away and completely conceal himself for the recovery that he'll need to survive if he survives the eight gates (however many gates he opened).
Using the eight gates means he's risking a lot (I'm assuming at least the 6th gate according to canon symptoms). Had he attacked Kakashi the moment he used the eight gates, he could have landed a surprise hit (which could easily be fatal) before Kakashi could respond.
except that the whole village would have died
Then he should have went to save the village. If he failed the village would have died anyways (had he lost to Z and H they would go after the village and his team)
Naruto at least would have insisted on fighting to save the Villagers
So you're saying he's putting Naruto's want to save the villager before his own priority to keep his team safe (at the potential cost of the villager and the team)?
Even if they had hidden it would not have been guaranteed to work as Z+H were very quick to locate them in the past, making Kakashi suspect they have some sort of sensory technique.
Suspect of a sensory technique isn't enough to dismiss the thought of hiding. If he hid he could have bought enough time to rest up and face Z + H on his own terms instead of following their plan. I also don't understand why they can't run away? They could escape through any other part of the country back into the Land of Fire by walking on water or swimming or whatever. They're not required to use the bridge or boat, they're ninja's for goodness sake.
Do you have any other examples, or is it just this specific case that feels off to you?
Sasuke getting his sword stuck in the giant thugs body. I have a hard time believing that a blade forged and infused with chakra would get stuck. Or that a body full of chakra couldn't pull out that blade, especially after this
His blade flashed out and carved off the first foe’s arm with chakra-enhanced strength
and
He grabbed one man and tossed him into another before impaling both
First he performs superhuman feats then he's a normal boy? That whole scene feels contrived. I get that he's just killed for the first time but it still doesn't seem right to me.
u/tokol [+2] The Greater Good (a day later)
Typo
No sooner had Zabuza rid himself of the dogs, or he turned tail and fled towards the water of the bay.