15 KiB
How powerful do you think Zorian will get by the end of MoL?
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Author: u/generalamitt *
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URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/6etvpr/how_powerful_do_you_think_zorian_will_get_by_the/
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Score: 38
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Created: 2017-06-02T11:47:46
Post:
Judging by the first two arcs, we don't have many more chapters left, probably not more than 20. Now, I don't see how Zorian can get to Zach's or Xvim's level of magical expertise and raw power in 20 chapters unless a series of sudden power ups happens, and it just doesn't fit with MoL's style. The whole story is about the GRADUAL development and learning of the MC.
Having said that, I recall nobody103 hinting that Zorian will be immensely powerful by the end, fighting dragons, and generally becoming a one man army.
So, does it mean that an anime style power up is inevitable even though it doesn't fit with the story "realistic" learning curve?
Comments:
u/None [+34] (40 minutes later)
We didn't have a benchmark chapter or learning/defining chapter in a while so we can't say how powerful Zorian has become.
The last chapter when Zorian learned a new skill was when Xvim taught him about dimensional magic. After that we had a benchmark chapter when Zorian 'teleport locked' the lich.
Zorian doesn't have much mana to become a battle mage and I think if he uses blood magic to extend his mana capacity then may be he could fight a dragon. If you read the world building blog then you know Dragons are sentient beings with butt load of Mana which makes it extremely tough to be defeated by a human mage.
u/kaukamieli [+17] (2 hours later)
He is the most powerful human mind mage. Damn good in many other areas. What was the archmage requirements?
u/None [+30] (2 hours later)
"An archmage is not an official rank that someone assigns to a person," Xvim said. "It is simply a term for a mage who has mastered several fields of magic to such an extent that they could outdo a typical specialist mage when it comes to those fields. I suppose the term could be applied to me, but it would be shockingly arrogant of me to claim it on my own. One is only ever a real archmage when other people start referring to you as such, and not many people use that term to describe me. Then again, not many people know about me in the first place, and I prefer it that way…"
u/throwawayIWGWPC [+20] (7 hours later)
Honestly, his biggest "upgrade" has been using his astounding wealth to recruit teams of researches to his cause.
The largest upgrades directly to Zorian I foresee, my guess, would come in the from of blood magic and turning his teams of researches toward the goal of teaching him as much awesome stuff as possible.
u/PM_ME_EXOTIC_FROGS [+27] (2 hours later)
I hypothesize that Zorian is either going to obtain a single, specific, and huge power from a source other than education (such as a powerful artifact or time loop specific magic)
-- or there will be a tonal shift, probably characterized by an immense loss, Darker and Edgier, raised stakes, and a long period of time passing in the duration of a few chapters, in which Zorian acquires and consumes with utter focus a source of education that no one else has access to, likely in the form of a mentor such as a bound primordial or the ghost serpent, and this period of learning may include time acceleration effected by the mentor.
u/serge_cell [+6] (a day later)
single, specific, and huge power from a source other than education
Something to do with dimensional pockets/magic maybe, Imperial Orb + Silverlake
u/stale2000 [+13] (19 hours later)
Honestly?
Literally zero more powerful.
We have had chapter after chapter of time travel, powerleveling.
At this point in time in the story, we are no longer worried about the powerleveling part. We are spending the vast majority of time focusing on the plot of the story.
Which is a good thing! There is only a year or so left in story, For them to complete their goal. The future chapters will hopefully focus mostly on the story, vs spending on powerleveling.
u/InfernoVulpix [+20] (7 hours later)
We don't have that many chapters left, but we do have plenty of time. I'm pretty sure Z&Z have about 50 loops left, maybe 40 given recent chapters, and each loop is a month of real time, a month in Cyoria's Black Room, and something like a month in other Black Rooms.
So with 3 months per loop, we're talking 120-150 months left in the time loop overall. That's 10-13 years of time, and Zorian's only spent like 5 years in the time loop by now. With the extraordinary resources and opportunities time loops provide (such as coaxing powerful mages out of their prized spells and such) Zorian's still got plenty of time to grow.
u/stale2000 [+4] (a day later)
But this doesn't make sense from a story perspective, honestly.
The plot is making progress. They have a GOAL.
They don't need to get more powerful. Just work towards their goal.
u/melmonella [+9] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (9 hours later)
It has been speculated that Zach has ridiculous mana because his soul got copied to start the loop, and then got merged with his real soul, thus doubling his magic. Zorian might potentially get the same powerup when leaving the loop.
u/thrawnca [+6] Carbon-based biped (a day later)
I very much doubt that theory.
u/melmonella [+2] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (2 days later)
How so?
Also, are you on discord? I keep seeing you in MoL threads.
u/thrawnca [+4] Carbon-based biped (2 days later)
I really really doubt that Zach's soul was doubled and then merged together. The soul meld spell description indicates that merging two souls together almost always results in insanity or other defects. And I'm not convinced that you could increase capacity that way without sacrificing control.
Nope, not on Discord, but I'll take a look.
u/melmonella [+6] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (2 days later)
The soul meld spell description indicates that merging two souls together almost always results in insanity or other defects.
I doubt they had experimental evidence from merging two identical copies together, since nobody else can copy souls.
u/Nepene [+8] (a day later)
Immense mind control powers. He'll be able to quickly and efficiently overcome even skilled mages and their defenses and so be able to subvert large forces.
Able to quickly form large golem armies and probably super guns.
He'll have numerous powerful and loyal allies who can provide actual armies, and spells and alchemy formulas and spell formulas to strengthen them.
He'll have some super abilities from blood magic.
He'll have numerous last resort super techniques from people to spam at enemies when Xvim gets stuff.
He'll have whatever buffs the imperial treasure gets.
His Simulcrum use will become much more effective so he can spam mind magic.
Very skilled but mana limited alteration to create and disable environmental traps.
Numerous useful items to buff and augment himself from looting invaders.
Able to use the gates, which allow quick and rapid transportation anywhere.
He'll never be
Good at large scale battles on his own. He does well with backing and support from allies, of which he has many. He's a good assassin.
Able to use all native gifts. Only so much mana to spend.
As good at battle magic as Zach. Not enough time.
The only useful person. Numerous people will have spent decades more than him practising magic.
Politically powerful. He's a commoner.
Free from emotional issues- his brother's an ass and his parents were abusive.
Super skilled at combat. He doesn't like to wade into direct fights as much as Zach.
A great alchemist or soul mage. He has people for that who he can help.
The richest people. He can grab a lot of cash but others have more assets.
Able to use noble assets. He lacks the political connections to get all the houses to work together.
u/Cryxx [+4] (2 days later)
Politically powerful. He's a commoner.
It might not fit Zorian's character at all, but technically by the end of the loop he should have little trouble securing himself a politically advantageous marriage that alleviates this problem. I'm pretty sure that even if it looks like he'd need to do so to save the world or something, he'd still rather use all his resources to find an alternative solution.
u/Ardvarkeating101 [+1] Father of Learning (3 months later)
Yeah! He'll never leave his one true love: Xvim!
u/thrawnca [+8] Carbon-based biped (a day later)
Point of order: nobody103 didn't actually say that Zorian would be as powerful as you describe, only that those things are the theoretical possibilities given enough training. As it stands, their remaining loop time is significant but not unlimited.
u/WarningInsanityBelow [+5] (a day later)
I believe to remember the following from text:
- Soul bonds exist and a stronger personality can dominate a weaker personality via one.
- Sharing mana between mages is possible and gets easier with repetition.
- Zorian can turn mana into additional copies of himself.
This lead me to the way to specific hypothesis that Zorian might end up creating a Simulacrum spell variant that creates a copy of him soul bound to a target. The copy then dominates the target (I'm assuming being a trained psychic means you have an overwhelmingly powerful personality) and then learns to use the targets mana to sustain his existence/fuel his spells.
The net effect of this combination of spells is an exponentially growing number of Zorians, at least until he runs out of morally acceptable targets.
This would run into problems when the Simlulacra start diverging, but maybe Zorian can solve this problem ahead of time by using the aranea's secret cache to place appropriate compulsions on himself.
u/-Fender- [+2] (a day later)
Interesting speculation. I look forward to seeing how Zorian will alter his own mind with the Cyorian web's research notes.
u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (2 days later)
There has been speculation before that RR resulted from a rogue simulacrum of Zach taking over someone else (Veyers Boranova?), turning them into a copy of itself, and then finding a way to give them a Controller marker. Though it seems to me like "how did he place a Controller marker?" is complex enough without adding further layers of complexity.
u/MysteryLolznation [+3] Dark Flame Master (3 hours later)
What's MoL?
u/MysteryLolznation [+5] Dark Flame Master (3 hours later)
An ant! Ha ha ha.
Seriously, though. What's MoL?
u/gvsmirnov [+11] (4 hours later)
u/MysteryLolznation [+10] Dark Flame Master (4 hours later)
Hah! Thanks for the help! Judging by the description, I'm gonna enjoy this one.
u/NotACauldronAgent [+17] Probably (6 hours later)
It's a favorite here.
u/None [+11] (48 minutes later)
I am hijacking the post to talk about the unresolved mysteries.
- The weeping
- Zach's mana capacity
- Red Robe's identity
- Damien's apathy towards his younger brother
- Was Damien really child prodigy?
- Akoja's feeling.
- Sovereign Gate's creator?
u/None [+12] (8 hours later)
[deleted]
u/thrawnca [+2] Carbon-based biped (a day later)
It shouldn't be all that hard for Zach to leave, once they have the Keys. His body is waiting in the real world; the Guardian should be able to transfer his soul back.
Zorian might have a harder time. Perhaps he'll physically leave via the primordial prison.
u/TomSmash [+1] (2 days later)
Will Zach's body be waiting for him though? I imagine that Red Robe's soul which has already left has to go somewhere. And if I'm not mistaken Zach's body is the only body currently missing it's soul. It wouldn't surprise me if Red Robe ends up with Zach's body
u/thrawnca [+1] Carbon-based biped (2 days later)
It wouldn't surprise me if Red Robe ends up with Zach's body
Yeah, that is a possibility. I don't know how well it would work, though, transplanting a soul into a different body. Necromancers can do it, sure, but it affects the quality of their work. I suspect that RR would have to adapt to Zach's body; he wouldn't be in top form. And he wouldn't get Zach's mana reserves, at least.
u/ShiranaiWakaranai [+8] (10 hours later)
Wasn't Damien's child prodigy thing already resolved? He's psychic, and had power over it since young unlike Zorian. I.e., he can read answers out of teacher's heads. He can read people's minds for their desires at social events. He can do everything with ridiculous ease compared to a non-psychic.
u/zconjugate [+7] (15 hours later)
he can read answers out of teacher's heads
I thought it was stated that his mind magic is weaker than Zorian's; maybe he can't do that.
u/None [+12] (15 hours later)
He can't, Damien is an empath which is a passive skill and doesn't involve invading others mind.
imagine a kind of mental plane that permeates everything. Minds create ripples on this mental plane, like stones thrown into a pool of stagnant water, and those who are Open can use these ripples to locate other minds around them and divine some basic facts about them. Stuff like species and their general mood.
u/None [+2] (9 hours later)
How do we know the story will only have three arcs?
u/None [+1] (10 hours later)
He goes magic-FOOM.
u/Tommy2255 [+1] (3 days later)
My money's on Zorian becoming a Lich. It was foreshadowed with the Simulcrums, and his beginner lessons in Necromancy, and I suspect that it will turn out to be the solution to escaping the loop (ie, you may not be able to smuggle out a living person, but a phylactery could be a different matter). If that happens, then there's no telling what it will do to his combat effectiveness.
u/None [-5] (36 minutes later)
[deleted]
u/thrawnca [+3] Carbon-based biped (2 days later)
serial authors that get paid per chapter
You're gravely mistaken. MoL was always going to be 3 arcs. We knew that ages ago. In fact, the author planned it all out in advance, and from what he's said, he's actually trimmed parts (that weren't plot-critical).
Reaching the Gate and then being told it's locked, RR has already reached the real world, you survived due to undefined programming behavior in unexpected conditions, is not that much different to the end of arc 1, where their attempt to catch RR, find out everything he knows about the loop, and get ZZ working together instead blew up with the aranea getting erased from the loop, Zorian going on the run, and RR escaping the loop.
No doubt arc 3, which currently is cruising with overpowered ZZ, will again build up tension as they approach the real world and challenges too big for even their skills.