19 KiB
[RT][FF] Scar's Samsara. A Rational!Scar Lion King fanfic, Oneshot.
-
Author: u/Sophronius The Need to Become Stronger*
-
Score: 76
-
Created: 2017-07-30T12:30:58
Post:
Comments:
u/Sophronius [+16] The Need to Become Stronger (2 minutes later)
Story Synopsis: From Scar's perspective, it never made much sense to justify a divine kingship through a perpetual cycle of death and suffering, though that wasn't what was really bothering him. One little push and all his troubles would be over – if only that darn cub wasn't so cute!
So, I felt like taking a break from NTBS and writing something completely different - and here it is! I honestly quite liked how it turned out. It breaks Yudkowsky's first rule of rational fanfiction by making only the protagonist rational, but I actually think that that works perfectly for a Oneshot story.
Also, the Lion King is an amazing movie. There, I said it.
u/Sophronius [+4] The Need to Become Stronger (a day later)
Ok, this story actually seems to be getting pretty popular, and reading these comments I'm getting more ideas for where it could go next. I thought I had it mostly wrapped up, but really there is a lot of room to explore the world and make it a suitably epic story worthy of the Lion King saga (well, 5 fast-paced chapters or so, let's not go crazy). The only thing I need to figure out is where the main conflict is going to come from now that Mufasa is gone, but I think I have some pretty sweet ideas...
What do you guys think? Shall I give it a go?
u/CeruleanTresses [+8] (a day later)
I personally thought the story worked really well as a one-shot. It's nice and tight and accomplishes everything it needs to. But sometimes I've read/watched the first part of an ongoing series and thought, "This doesn't need a continuation," only to end up loving the rest of the series. If you want to continue it, there's definitely stuff you could do with the potential power struggles surrounding the "everyone king for a day" plan, experimentation to determine the precise requirements for eternal life, the possibility of Simba discovering Scar murdered his dad, etc.
u/MagicWeasel [+3] Cheela Astronaut (a day later)
I'd definitely read it, but don't necessarily feel you have to tie yourself down to this first chapter. Give it some time, think about everything, and feel free to do a "reboot" (even if it means just editing chapter 1) to make the story more coherent. You didn't write this chapter with the intent on continuing it so you don't want decisions you made with that in mind to weigh down on the whole story.
u/CouteauBleu [+13] We are the Empire. (an hour later)
I like it!
I think you nailed Scar as a rationalist villain. Your character is basically how canon!Scar imagines himself to be :)
u/Sophronius [+7] The Need to Become Stronger (2 hours later)
Cheers!
I'll be honest, I have no idea at this point which of my work will be well-received or not, so I always have a fair amount of trepidation before I publish anything. But the story seems to be doing ok.
Is this Scar a villain, though? I mean, he certainly isn't a good person. But at the end of the story, he does basically tag, assuming the canon religious/magical beliefs are still true, which kind of is supposed to be the ultimate goal of rationalist heroes after all.
From a strictly utilitarian perspective, he's not bad.
u/CouteauBleu [+6] We are the Empire. (2 hours later)
Sure, it depends on how you interpret the "villain" label. I meant it less as "person whose morality I disapprove of" and more as bunch of personal traits that usually come with antagonists in most stories (pride, resentment, cowardice, etc).
Also, I disagree with the "ultimate goals of rationalist heroes". I thought the "everyone gets to be king for a day" part was kind of the weakest part of the story. I think "and then everyone lives forever" gets shoehorned awkwardly in way too many rationalist stories (I liked that The Reckoning has it as the antagonist's goal).
u/CeruleanTresses [+13] (5 hours later)
I actually thought the "everyone is immortal now" bookended quite nicely with the "Circle of Death" discussion at the start. I read this as a story about privilege and power, and how change only comes from those who are treated unfairly within the existing system. Mufasa was content to carry on with the status quo because he was at the top of the heap. The strongest of the apex predators have hoarded eternal life for themselves for generations, because they have the raw power to retain "kingship", and they retroactively justify this with glowing narratives in which kingship is their deserved birthright. At the end, Scar levels the playing field--now the antelopes, the hyenas, even the weaker lions finally get their share of the afterlife.
And it made sense for eternal life to be the stakes, since the story takes place in an established universe where "eternal life, but only for kings" is a canonical element of the setting. In another setting, the prize hoarded by the most powerful might have been something else.
I don't know whether this was /u/Sophronius's intent, but I think it all fit together really well. It didn't feel like a cheap throw-in at the end to me, it felt like a proper and earned resolution for Scar's stated grievances.
u/trekie140 [+3] (a day later)
My take on the concept of the villain is that they exist to be wrong in some way to contrast agains the hero being right. This is usually in terms of morality, but I think it can also apply to intellect. The villain's view of reality has some fundamental flaws in it that dooms them to fail in their goals against someone who lacks those flaws.
In that sense, Scar seems like more of a anti-hero. He still opposes and defeats characters with flawed conceptions of the world that motivates them to hurt others, but he doesn't do so because he is heroic. Scar had his own debilitating flaws, his goals just happen to result in reducing the harm that exists in the world.
Similarly, characters like The Punisher or Dexter Morgan do kill people that hurt innocent people more than they do, but their reasons and methods for doing so are not meant to be virtues we should emulate. Anti-heroes are defined by their inability to be a proper hero.
u/Alphanos [+2] The Bright Powers (7 hours later)
I think "and then everyone lives forever" gets shoehorned awkwardly in way too many rationalist stories (I liked that The Reckoning has it as the antagonist's goal).
u/Sophronius [+1] The Need to Become Stronger (2 hours later)
more as bunch of personal traits that usually come with antagonists in most stories (pride, resentment, cowardice, etc).
Well yes, he has a Slytherin personality type, sure.
......
Does anyone else see the potential for an amazing crossover?
I thought the "everyone gets to be king for a day" part was kind of the weakest part of the story.
Oh drat. I was a bit worried that the resolution might have been too easy, but still, with such a short story there are not a lot of complications you can add. Thanks for the feedback though, that's good to know.
u/CouteauBleu [+5] We are the Empire. (4 hours later)
To detail a little more, I think most "also everyone is immortal now"-type stories cheapen the worldbuilding that came before and almost always come off as 'un-earned'.
Kind of like how in Worm, Skitter gets to be labelled as "morally ambiguous" rather than "a villain with justifications" because she gets to spend Coil's money to fund her territory-building, so she never needs to gather money through drug trafficking or a protection racket.
Same thing here. I feel the ending kind of takes away from the main "Smart but cowardly brother wants revenge on honorable but brutish king" plot by having him do something nice at the end that he doesn't "earn", since it doesn't cost him anything and anyone could have done it before him.
Same thing for HP:MoR, sort of. The story that could pull a "also everyone is immortal now" plot most elegantly is Twig, because transhumanism is a central theme to the story, and the worldbuilding includes lots of people working on longevity and staving off death, so it's clearly something that has been considered before and is part of the world.
u/xThoth19x [+4] (4 hours later)
I think scar didn't believe in the immortality of kings. Which means he can give everyone the hope of immortality without cost to himself but he doesn't need to actually give them anything. It's a spiritual thing. The important part is that the people and Simba believe in heaven.
u/Sophronius [+3] The Need to Become Stronger (a day later)
He certainly wants it to be true - he doesn't want to die, after all. But yeah, he has some serious doubts which I might be able to go into later if I do write up an epilogue/sequel.
u/Evan_Th [+3] Sunshine Regiment (13 hours later)
Huh - you meant to have Scar really mean that? I was convinced he was lying to Simba and didn't really care about anyone living forever aside from himself!
u/Sophronius [+3] The Need to Become Stronger (a day later)
It's supposed to a bit ambiguous, and of course it always sounds a little ominous with the villain talking about his future "benevolent rule". But like others pointed out, it doesn't cost him anything to save the world, so why not?
And that was also kind of the point of the story: That even Scar is not nice, he can still be the protagonist when the villain is the state of the world itself.
u/Evan_Th [+3] Sunshine Regiment (a day later)
it doesn't cost him anything
I'm not convinced. "King for a day" would at least cost him some prestige, and to get it within the meaning of the magic might mean his giving up some actual power...
he can still be the protagonist when the villain is the state of the world itself.
I'm sorry - I just didn't get that sense from the story. The state of the world seemed like just a tool for Scar to use against Mufasa, and a backstory for his villainy.
u/CeruleanTresses [+8] (a day later)
In my previous comment I only really talked about my impressions of the broader themes of the story, but I also wanted to say how much I enjoyed the emphasis on emotion. I think it's a common weakness of rationalist works that the author (understandably) gets so enthusiastic about the experimentation and munchkinry that they give less attention to fleshing out complex, relatable, emotionally compelling characters. This story didn't have that problem. I thought the part where Scar is taken by surprise by how much the "family" comment hurt him, and the part where he feels guilt (or empathy?) at the sight of Simba's grief, were among the strongest moments.
u/Sophronius [+3] The Need to Become Stronger (a day later)
Thanks! This is definitely something I've done on purpose, as I believe emotion is what makes people care about the stories they're reading - ideas by themselves are not engaging.
Regarding your other comment: I wouldn't use the word privilege unironically (Socks are a privilege, not a right!) but those were certainly the themes I wanted to explore. It's interesting to see how older children cartoons are so steeped in romanticism, with power/beauty/goodness all neatly aligned on one side, while in reality of course the concept of "only the king gets to live forever because he is the king" is quite appalling.
u/CeruleanTresses [+3] (a day later)
Aww, it's such a useful word though! It gets a bad rap because of its association with internet drama, but it has its place in academic discourse. Though if you know of a word that conveys the same meaning without all the baggage, hit me with it! I'd get a lot of use out of it.
I completely agree with you about emotion in writing. Ideas are great, but emotion is what makes the difference between "Well, this is pretty clever" and "I am genuinely invested in this story and its characters, and it's also pretty clever." For me, the most important thing of all is for the major characters have goals they're passionate about.
u/Sophronius [+4] The Need to Become Stronger (a day later)
The word 'privilege' often doesn't convey any meaning at all, because it can mean any of a hundred things depending on the speaker, and the definition often changes mid-sentence. You can substitute it pretty easily for a more specific and meaningful word or phrase:
You are arguing from a position of white privilege --> being black sucks a lot more than white people think
You are in a privileged position --> you are in a position of power
It is my privilege to be here --> I am honoured to be here
This job comes with certain privileges --> This job comes with certain benefits
Check your privilege --> go f*ck yourselfetc, and so on, and so forth. Of course in some cases it's perfectly clear what you mean, but in the context of social justice it pretty much always does more harm than good.
u/None [+3] (a day later)
me me big disappointment
u/CeruleanTresses [+2] (a day later)
I see where you're coming from. I guess I don't see the various meanings of the word as problematic (haha), because it's pretty typical for English words to have multiple context-dependent meanings and we're really good at distinguishing them. I think it's useful in a social justice context because it's an effective shorthand for ideas that would otherwise take full sentences or paragraphs to explain--although, of course, it only works if everyone in the conversation is already familiar with the expanded definition. When I wrote my earlier comment, I wasn't sure if I wanted to use the word, but I decided it was the best way to convey my exact meaning without derailing my commentary with a lengthy explanation.
Still, it's totally up to you whether you want to use it! This is more an explanation of why I use it than an attempt to persuade you to do so.
u/Gaboncio [+3] (a day later)
I also think that all of the meanings overlap and work together in a useful way. When I use the word privilege, it brings to mind that the situation I'm referring to is unearned. Privileged people are lucky, not inherently more virtuous, and its deliberate use in social justoce circles cements this and constantly reminds me of this fact. It helps keep me humble.
u/Sophronius [+1] The Need to Become Stronger (3 days later)
Hey. Just wanted to share this article from current affairs which I just read, which captures my views on the use of these types of academic terms nicely: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/07/academic-language-and-the-problem-of-meaninglessness
u/Michaeljaygabriel [+2] (8 hours later)
This was a great version of Scar. Well done.
u/MagicWeasel [+2] Cheela Astronaut (12 hours later)
What a great choice for subject matter - haven't seen TLK on here before!
I agree with everyone in that it's hard to have a satisfying ending given the movie's mythos and the length of the story - it almost makes me want to see something like Stargate's Ori, where the immortal kings have to share their power with each other, so when Scar starts handing that immortality to Zebras they come for him lest he dilute the immortality too much.
Because as written, the immortality seems "too easy". Perhaps something more dystopian: you can't just have someone be "king for a day", you must be the genuine heir. So it would essentially end up with everyone becoming king and then immediately committing suicide to allow for the next king to take their place. It would be more horrific but still be an optimal course of action, until one greedy king decides to keep the earthly power for themselves rather than be altruistic since they're guaranteed immortality anyhow. Would also probably limit the whole thing to lions.
In fact, I can see it now: open with a lion pride that has ritualised suicide by the king periodically, just the bare minimum amount of lions to keep the pride functional and new babies, and then explain that it originated from the TLK universe rules. Alternatively, a world without lions with rafiki narrating? Who knows.
Anyway, thank you for posting! Needless to say it was a lot to think about.
u/CouteauBleu [+6] We are the Empire. (20 hours later)
Honestly, I think the whole "being a kings makes you immortal" thing kinda goes counter to the spirit of the movie. It would make as much sense to me that all animal spirits live forever in some way, but only the kings get to be stars and talk to their sons in giant clouds; where "king" is not a technicality but some abstraction for "greatness" or "respect from the Pride" (which Scar would not get even by murdering his brother).
u/MagicWeasel [+2] Cheela Astronaut (20 hours later)
The Lion King has a surprisingly deep mythology when you think about it, and would be an interesting candidate for a real in-depth treatment. I'm not sure what the best way to deal with it would be though.
u/DaystarEld [+1] Pokémon Professor (3 days later)
I liked it! Still haven't had a chance to start Need to Become Stronger, but steadily working my way to it :)
u/Sophronius [+1] The Need to Become Stronger (3 days later)
Cool! It's always nice to receive feedback from other writers. I only just started reading your story, which has also been on my backburner for ages. That's one of the big advantages of short stories like this one I guess: It's just so much easier for time-strapped people to get into.
u/DaystarEld [+1] Pokémon Professor (4 days later)
Awesome, looking forward to any feedback!