17 KiB
[RT][FF] Scar's Samsara 6: Satya. Featuring a rationalist battle of wits.
-
Author: u/Sophronius The Need to Become Stronger*
-
Score: 34
-
Created: 2017-08-30T21:18:41
Post:
Comments:
u/JackStargazer [+16] Primordial Apologist (3 hours later)
Huh. His love for his nephew ultimately is his undoing.
I'm having a bit of trouble suspending disbelief on literally every single lioness failing to attack Rafiki when he threw the dust at Scar, and on top of that him managing to grab Zira in the process. There's only so much bystander apathy any scene can have, especially after the resolve to attack has been made.
And the ending seems... well, anticlimactic.
Rafiki had all of the advantages, magic powers, the truth-as-the-lions-would-see-it on his side, apparently superhuman fighting powers, and on top of all of that he wins by fluke?
That's... not really a satisfying ending.
We don't even find out how much of the Spirit World stuff is true or false, and suddenly in this chapter Scar is implying that Rafiki is making up the afterlife in his own thoughts when we apparently had prior evidence that spirit magic was definitely a thing.
u/Sophronius [+8] The Need to Become Stronger (10 hours later)
I'm having a bit of trouble suspending disbelief on literally every single lioness failing to attack Rafiki when he threw the dust at Scar, and on top of that him managing to grab Zira in the process.
True, that was a bit iffy, but to be fair the room was literally being covered by a (possibly magical) choking gas at the time. Would you have gone in there? It's easy to say 'burn the witch', but the prospect is far more appealing when the target is not actually, you know, a witch.
Also, bear in mind that Rafiki is a kung fu battle wizard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDRm36U7V70
Rafiki had all of the advantages, magic powers, the truth-as-the-lions-would-see-it on his side, apparently superhuman fighting powers, and on top of all of that he wins by fluke?
It's not that he wins by a fluke. The story is called "Scar's Samsara", not "Scar vs Rafiki". The concept of the story is that Scar is his own worst enemy, and so he is the cause of most of his own problems.
Throughout the entire trial, you may notice that Scar is morose and defeatist: He expects everyone to betray him, but nobody does. He expects Rafiki to sway them, but everyone including Mufasa's wife and son keeps faith in Scar, which only hurts him more. He voluntarily enters the circle of truth and keeps speaking even after he's won, just to spite Rafiki. This is because his own guilty conscience is haunting him, willing him to fail - and so in the end it's Simba, not Rafiki, who really gets to him.
That's... not really a satisfying ending.
The story is not over yet! There's still some more chapters to come, and that includes most of the reveals regarding how spirits actually work. Scar in this chapter is still speculating because he does not know how it works - he's basing everything on his own experience with wielding the Spirit Kings' power in his youth, but he can't actually be certain that it's really the Kings of the Past who gave him that power. And as you could see in chapter 4, he's totally crippled in his investigations.
u/DaystarEld [+7] Pokémon Professor (12 hours later)
I enjoyed the chapter, but I agree that the lions not attacking Rafiki was annoying to me as a reader. He's allowed to use magic to defend himself, he's done it before, but a quick mention of holding lions off with his staff is not sufficient unless we should not be expected to think there's any threat to him whatsoever in the scene.
u/Sophronius [+3] The Need to Become Stronger (12 hours later)
Hmm, okay... So if I changed it to him doing his "conjure a wind that blows everyone away" thing, that would be more satisfying?
I originally did not go with that because A) they're in a cave, and B) that would blow the red vapors away, surely. But maybe it's better than the alternative?
I could also just change the situation so that only Zira is ordered to attack him, and not the other lionesses - maybe that's a better way to do it.
u/DaystarEld [+5] Pokémon Professor (12 hours later)
If Zira is ordered I would still wonder why everyone else is sitting around like lumps, but the objections to using the wind magic are good: I'm not sure what else is in his repertoire, maybe some kind of flashbang of extreme light and sound to send them reeling, like all true good magic ninja monkeys might have? :)
u/scruiser [+4] CYOA (20 hours later)
I'm not sure what else is in his repertoire
Release a barely noticeable, slightly paralytic powder with a shift in the wind as cover to literally freeze everyone in place. It would also explain how Scar escapes next chapter (assuming he does).
u/FeepingCreature [+3] GCV Literally The Entire Culture (a day later)
Throughout the entire trial, you may notice that Scar is morose and defeatist: He expects everyone to betray him, but nobody does. He expects Rafiki to sway them, but everyone including Mufasa's wife and son keeps faith in Scar, which only hurts him more. He voluntarily enters the circle of truth and keeps speaking even after he's won, just to spite Rafiki. This is because his own guilty conscience is haunting him, willing him to fail - and so in the end it's Simba, not Rafiki, who really gets to him.
This really reminds me of this M:tG blog post about why people lose.
I'm not talking about obscure card interactions or unwitting basic play mistakes - I'm referring to plays that you make (or not make) that you know (or highly suspect) are incorrect. I'm talking about finding an excuse to lose.
u/scruiser [+2] CYOA (19 hours later)
It's not that he wins by a fluke. The story is called "Scar's Samsara", not "Scar vs Rafiki". The concept of the story is that Scar is his own worst enemy, and so he is the cause of most of his own problems.
I think this works in terms of it being a good story. If the story ended here, I would question this as fitting into the "rational" fanfic label versus a tragedy with a slightly smarter/more sympathetic scar... but seeing as how there are a few more chapters I'll see how it plays out. Either way, still a good fanfic and rational enough to be worth putting on this subreddit.
Edit: emphasis on if
u/Sophronius [+5] The Need to Become Stronger (20 hours later)
Why not rational? And why only slightly smarter? Compare it with HPMOR: Yes, Harry might seem very impressive for an 11 year old, but I see that as cheating because he just magically has all the knowledge of a superpowerful 60 year old wizard. Scar literally does not even have access to books. If you look at what the characters actually do, then both are responsible for causing their own problems due to their own irrational biases and issues, but both try to tackle their problems with science and experimentation, and they perform about equally well. I actually would say that Scar is the more potent rationalist despite his flaws.
Mind you, I would totally agree with you if I had said "Scar cannot possibly win because this is a greek tragedy" and used that as an excuse for bad writing, but that's not what I meant. I just mean that his story teaches rationality is through the POV of a very flawed rationalist who is haunted by his past mistakes, and so that's what causes him to fail in this instance.
u/scruiser [+5] CYOA (20 hours later)
"Scar cannot possibly win because this is a greek tragedy"
This chapter felt like it veered close to this, although it was well executed enough to be good writing either way. I guess if you are looking to revise, make it clear that Rafiki is just that good at manipulation, magic, and hallucinogenic drug use? (You could address this in Scar's musings either before or after this chapter if it would clutter this chapter itself.)
I just mean that part of the way this story teaches rationality is through the POV of a very flawed rationalist who is haunted by his past mistakes.
Right, and if sometime in the next couple of chapters, Scar reflects on events in a rationalist fashion it will play out like this. I was primarily saying if the story ended right here or without further resolution it wouldn't be rationalist.
Agreed that EY kind of cheated to make HJPEV into a rationalist. I do like seeing a rational fanfic were the main character is more realistic in their rationality.
u/Kosijenac [+6] (12 hours later)
I notice that Simba says he heard Mufasa tell him it was his fault. If Simba is right about this(As in not lying to help Scar or suffering from delusions.), I think we can conclude that this was done entirely via hallucinogens, as this is something I don't think Rafiki would want to show Simba and it certainly isn't something the actual Mufasa would say.
I'm betting that Rafiki's power is mostly just weird herbalism and hallucinogens. So the afterlife is probably not as described and possibly nonexistent.
As for Scar's spiritual attunement, I honestly don't have a clue. As an out of there guess, that's probably some sort of actual magic which may or may not run on some sort of emotional enlightenment(which would explain how Scar lost his).
u/Sophronius [+4] The Need to Become Stronger (14 hours later)
Huzah, a falsifiable prediction! If it turns out to be right, you'll be awarded highly desirable rationality points + bragging rights.
I'm not saying if your prediction is right or wrong, but the things Simba is quoting are literally what Mufasa told him in Canon: "Simba, you have forgotten me. You have forgotten who you are, and so you have forgotten me. Remember..." The rest is interrupted by Scar, and Simba, already feeling guilty about his father's death, interprets the vision in a way that comforms with his beliefs - as his father blaming him for his death.
Scar is surprised that Mufasa did not mention being murdered by him (again, same as in canon), and comes to the same conclusions you do:
Simba, I’ve known my brother all my life. The Mufasa I knew would never have said that to you, not in a million years!
Which is what inspires his thoughts in this chapter when replying to Rafiki:
“I was not, and I did not.” He had only ever intended to migrate Mufasa’s spirit to greener pastures after all, which could hardly be considered a deliberate attempt at murder – it was not his fault if the afterlife turned out to be a lie perpetuated by the likes of Rafiki.
In the next chapter, we'll see if you (and Scar) are on the right track!
u/Kosijenac [+1] (17 hours later)
Hmm, I thought Scar said quote #2 , because he had gained useful information by scouting the afterlife.
Edit: Spelling
u/Sophronius [+3] The Need to Become Stronger (20 hours later)
Oh yeah, good point. That experiment kind of failed because banzai came out as a mute wreck which could have happened A) because of brain damage or B) because the afterlife induces insanity, but it definitely made Scar more worried about his prospects.
u/Kosijenac [+1] (21 hours later)
Will this be mentioned in later chapters ? Having reared that part of chapter 4, I can see how I missed this the first time. However, I really don't think this is totally unambiguous since right after mentioning his blank stare he starts to laugh which really throws me off the trail.
u/Sophronius [+4] The Need to Become Stronger (22 hours later)
Huh. You know, that's one of the issues I have with hints and foreshadowing - I never know when something is clear enough.
With Banzai, the whole "coming back brain damaged" thing was supposed to be made clear by the set-up with Ed who is described that way, and then with Banzai being described and laughing in the exact same way. And then the sudden scene shift is supposed to leave the reader with a sense of "and that was the end of that".
But yeah, I can totally see how you might have missed that. It should be more obvious in the next chapter though.
u/Sophronius [+3] The Need to Become Stronger (10 hours later)
PSA: This is not the end of the story! There's still a few more chapters coming up. So don't despair to see the end just yet.
By the way, the next chapter includes The Reveal(tm) wherein our heroic villains (or villainous heroes) finally find out more about how the spirits really work, thus uncovering the source of Rafiki's power. So if anybody wants to earn rationalist points in the eyes of the community, then now is the time to make your predictions!
u/Sailor_Vulcan [+3] Champion of Justice and Reason (2 hours later)
Omg. These lions are dumb. Scar didn't kill mufasa merely for angers sake, he also did it to save the lives of all the sentient beings of the pridelands INCLUDING THEM. Scar should have mentioned that as soon as the truth gas forced him to admit his guilt. He knows that he'll lose everything he worked for otherwise. He needs to at least make Simba understand why he did it, so that Simba will be a more ethical ruler than Mufasa. Scar should not run. The most effective thing he can do right now is probably to stay and make himself a martyr for his cause, and let Simba continue the fight in his stead.
u/CeruleanTresses [+9] (7 hours later)
I thought he admitted his guilt because he couldn't stand to see Simba continue to blame himself. His internal monologue indicated that "truth gas" isn't a real thing, it was just some drug that causes impulsiveness. The setup for the confession was that the combination of the drug messing with his head, his gradually building guilt over his whole family wrongly defending his honor, and Simba admitting that he was convinced he'd caused his own father's death, culminated in him freaking out and confessing. So ironically enough considering the subreddit, he's probably not thinking rationally enough to take your advice in this moment. I would have been surprised if he'd shifted instantly from such an emotionally driven, impulsive, counterproductive act to a calculated one like you describe.
u/Sophronius [+5] The Need to Become Stronger (12 hours later)
Exactly! This might be rationalist fiction, but the characters are still only human/lion. That's one of the common criticisms of rational fiction, actually; that we ignore the human factor in favour of writing about cold calculating robots. In fact, I think lessons in rationality are much better taught by occasionally showing charactes not acting rationally, and the consequences thereof.
Also, even if Scar were rational right now, there's no way he could reasonably expect the lionesses to be willing to talk things over: They just heard Nuka say that they were planning to kill them all - Scar's confession immediately afterwards seems to confirm that initial setup, acting as a perfect one-two punch.
They're not in a good way right now.
u/CeruleanTresses [+3] (16 hours later)
One thing I did find a little bit confusing with the "truth gas" was that Scar was still playing the "let's say things that I can internally argue are technically true" game even though he told us it can't actually compel truth.
u/Sophronius [+3] The Need to Become Stronger (16 hours later)
Yeah, I hesitated a bit as to how real I wanted that particular bit of magic to be. In the end I settled for making it ambiguous: Scar doesn't think it's real, but he's playing it safe by not saying any outright lie. Basically, he figures that as long he puts himself into a mode of thought where he genuinely believes himself to be innocent and acts that way, he's safe from the gas regardless of how it works. Of course it's also possible that there really is a gease on him which is causing him to think that way.
If this were NTBS I would have clarified it, but in this setting I really like the mystery aspect of the spirits, and so I chose for this. Not sure if it really worked in this case though.
u/Kishoto [+8] (6 hours later)
I think you're giving Scar more altruistic credit than he deserves, to be honest.
u/Sophronius [+6] The Need to Become Stronger (12 hours later)
Yep. This might have been a valid criticism when Scar first introduced his scheme to give everyone immortality and they just complained about it (though Scar really should not have taken Zazu's word for that, given their latest conversation), but he just confessed to gleefully murdering their beloved ruler. Other motivations notwithstanding, that part is kind of unambigously evil.