scrape_r_rational/data/cache2/7lpzcb.md

Rationalist Wish fulfilment

• Author: u/None *

• URL: https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/comments/7lpzcb/rationalist_wish_fulfilment/

• Score: 3

• Created: 2017-12-23T17:59:22

Post:

It's winter break and I want to unwind before the next semester. I'm looking for wish fulfilment material (this means I need a character I can self insert into). I'm accepting novels (both original English novels and translated ones), manga, and anime (I'd rather read the manga, as written entertainment is much more portable than video ).
Requirements:

1. Male (some of my favourite MCs are female, but I can't/won't self insert in female characters).
2. Preferably in their teens to twenties (older/younger characters make the self insert more difficult).
3. High-fantasy/Sci-fi or a combination of both. This is just a bonus as I care more about the character than the settings, but I tend to prefer those settings.
4. For certain reasons, I seem to find original fics more palatable than fanfics (HPMOR is the only rat fanfic I really enjoyed (I generally don't read fanfic of franchises I'm ignorant of).
    
   I want a character like the guy who took the black pill.
    

####Edit
I'm looking for a character with the same personality as Black, not a character with the same ability. A character who actually weaponises decision theory. So I want a smart rationalist MC. MC doesn't need any special powers (in case it wasn't clear).

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All recommendations are appreciated, thanks in advance.

Comments:

u/NotACauldronAgent [+33] Probably (an hour later)

Easy answer: Mother of Learning. Male teen character, original fiction inspired by D&D, though the knowlege absolutely isn’t required, any spell more advanced than Magic Missile is explained. Not quite high fantasy, but close, and has an interesting technomagical scene.

Main character is fairly easy to self-insert into, I know I have, he can be a bit stubborn at times, though.

Read it here: https://m.fictionpress.com/s/2961893/1/Mother-of-Learning I’d be more than happy to answer any questions, it is one of my favorites.

u/None [+5] (8 hours later)

It's been on my to read list for a while (and I do plan to start), do you know any others.

u/None [+17] (4 hours later)

I'd say Pact, but it's only wish fulfillment if you're a relentless masochist.

Heros Save The World, but it jumps between viewpoints, only some of which fulfill your criteria, and is less wish fulfillment than existential thriller flavoured with superpowers and a rationalist bent. Imagine mashing together Dan Brown, Dan Wells, and Wildbow.

Twig: see Pact. If that's wish fulfillment for you, please never meet a genie.

Honestly MoL is probably best. It's a bit dry at times, but is popcorn-y while still being dense enough to be interesting.

UNSONG. It's... Not quite what you're looking for. But it's weird enough that it's just damn fun to read, and the main character fits your criteria.

u/Ibbot [+9] (4 hours later)

I certainly hope that Ward isn’t anyone’s wish fulfillment.

u/None [+8] (a day later)

[deleted]

u/Ibbot [+3] (a day later)

She’s not quite there yet.

u/MultipartiteMind [+6] (a day later)

(The Pact comment made me applaud. The Twig comment made me giggle, as most of the biotechnology (if not the personal relationships) would be wish-fulfillment for me, even if my strongest wishes require going further.)

u/Makin- [+28] homestuck ratfic, you can do it (an hour later)

Try Arcane Emperor.

I can't/won't self insert in female characters

Wait, are you that guy?

u/eaglejarl [+22] (4 hours later)

Yep. He phrased it better this time, though.

u/Anderkent [+4] (5 hours later)

What a difference phrasing makes.

u/None [+3] (8 hours later)

Why is it a problem?

u/callmesalticidae [+2] writes worldbuilding books (23 hours later)

Because we used to have a minor problem with redpill-types, and when you phrased it the way that you used to, you came off as a redpiller.

EDIT: handy link just in case you're unfamiliar with the term. This is where "red pill movement" redirects to on Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manosphere

u/None [+8] (a day later)

I don't really care whether I come off as a redpiller TBH. At least on this sub, I don't think it should be at all relevant what one's political leanings are.

u/callmesalticidae [+17] writes worldbuilding books (a day later)

Yeah, I dunno. We just recently had to ban all discussion of U.S. politics, so... It comes up, and people do care.

Plus, we're not robots, you know? Even if it doesn't come up as a major topic of discussion, if I know that [user] is an anti-semite, that is going to color my interactions with that user in this sub.

u/None [+4] (2 days later)

I wish it wasn't so. I think being able to partition different aspects of ourselves is an important skill; in this sub, we're all fiction fans, and nothing else is relevant? I see our political affiliations as relevant to this sub, as for example our race (or biological sex).

u/eaglejarl [+10] (a day later)

For myself, I dislike having people in my communities who base their identity on oppression and/or hatefulness, even if my interactions with them don't involve those elements. For example, it would make me uncomfortable to receive a "wow, I love your writing" comment from a Nazi, neo- or otherwise. Turn that uncomfortableness up a few orders of magnitude if they actually started spouting their beliefs.

The red pill movement in particular is based on the idea that men should be uber-masculine and domineering, because it will make women submit, obey, and provide sex. That is an abrasive personality that I do not want to have around, and people who explicitly choose to be like that are people for whom I have contempt. It is also an irrational beliefset, which goes pretty strongly against the spirit of this sub.

It may be typical mind fallacy, but it seems likely to me that other people on this sub have the same feelings, and that's why we don't want red-pill types around.

EDIT ADDENDUM: You probably should care if you come off like a red pill type, since it's a subcommunity that promotes strong reactions in a lot of people. If you aren't a redpiller then you don't want to get tarred with their brush. If you ARE a redpiller then it's still a good idea to think about if you want to lay it out there all the time, since it's going to close doors for you. If the goal is to make women sleep with you then it's probably better to save the redpill act for atomspace where you can at least theoretically reap the benefits. No woman online is going to be so impressed with your red-pill-endowed manliness that she's going to hop in her car and drive over to your place for a wild eight-second ride.

u/Fresh_C [+8] (a day later)

I'm somewhat conflicted on this. On one hand I think a place that tries to uphold the ideas of rationality is exactly the type of place we want to see Red Pillers come to, in the hopes that they can see reasonable non-sensationalized arguments against their point of view that might convince them to change their way of thinking.

However, this sub isn't primarily concerned with rational discussion and debate, but is more a vehicle for discovering and recommending rational/rationalist fiction. So such a debate about politics or gender relations would be out of place here outside of the context of fiction that explores those topics.

Ideally there should be a place where we can logically discuss these type of issues with the people who actually hold those opinions without dismissing their arguments and saying "You're wrong and we don't want you here". But it makes sense that this subredit isn't that place.

u/eaglejarl [+5] (a day later)

I agree. If a redpiller wanted to post some well-written red-pill based rational fiction as a means of propagandizing, I'd be onboard with discussing it. Otherwise, something like LessWrong would be a better choice.

u/RMcD94 [+2] (3 days later)

Might as well have used the analogy of him being unable to self insert into a jew

u/Fresh_C [+1] (3 days later)

I'm not really sure how your reply relates to my comment. Did you mean to reply to someone else?

u/RMcD94 [+2] (4 days later)

Looks like I did, woops my bad

u/None [+5] (2 days later)

in this sub, we're all fiction fans, and nothing else is relevant?

This is my opinion. I vowed sometime earlier this year to forgo politics and the culture war completely. I don't know about my current political leanings, but before I decided to forsake politics, I found evangelical liberals grating.
 
I don't want to say whether or not I am/was a redpiller, as it is my belief that it should be of no relevance, like for example my race.

u/eaglejarl [+3] (2 days later)

I vowed sometime earlier this year to forgo politics and the culture war completely.

That's a reasonable attitude, but I warn you that, even if you decide to forsake politics and the "culture war", they probably aren't willing to forsake you.

u/None [+13] (an hour later)

Arcane emperor MC isn't smart.

u/None [+10] (8 hours later)

Why is there a problem if I can't self insert in female characters? I have no problem with female characters, but this is wish fulfilment—I'd need to want to be female for this to work. Are you going to complain I'm ageist as well?

u/None [+9] (8 hours later)

Well, what kind of characters you can easily relate to is your own business and I won't judge anyone for that, but the way you phrased it sounds very... suggestive and made me giggle for about 10 seconds.

u/None [+6] (8 hours later)

I'm socially inept, so please explain.

u/None [+16] (8 hours later)

Ok, any phrase along the lines of "I self insert in characters" sounds like talking about sex, so you may want to say it differently, perhaps something like: "I find that wish-fulfillment type of stories work best when the main characters resembles me, even superficially. Specifically, I find it easy to relate to characters of my own age and gender" or something like that.

u/None [+4] (13 hours later)

Okay, thanks (will edit later) .

u/None [+3] (3 days later)

On second thought I think your suggestion isn't what I want. I can relate to characters who are not like me in any aspect, and that's not what I'm talking about when I say self insert. I mean to put on the skin of another character, become them. And I think self insert is the best term for describing that. If people think that's sexual, then that's their problem.

u/caverts [+13] (23 hours later)

Have you read Worth the Candle? It seems like an exact match to your criteria.

u/lsparrish [+10] (4 hours later)

Here's an original LitRPG I've been enjoying: Threadbare. The main character is a golem made from a teddy bear. He starts at the bottom of the intelligence scale, but gets smarter as he levels. Lots of puns, instead of a manna pool everyone gets a bunch of pools for stuff like moxie, will, and sanity. It might not be along the lines you are looking for, but more original than most I've seen and pretty well written.

u/Zephyr1011 [+3] Potentially Unfriendly Aspiring Divinity (a day later)

Thanks for the recommendation! I stayed up till 4am bingeing it. And looks like it has an excellent update speed!

u/None [+3] (8 hours later)

I'm looking for an MC that weaponises decision theory and is smart (think Harry from HPMOR). That's all I really care about, and this MC doesn't sound like that.

u/awesomeideas [+9] Dai stiho, cousin. (8 hours later)

To piggyback, I have no issues with female self-inserts, so anyone who had an idea but got shut down by rule 1, please post here!

u/None [-12] (8 hours later)

I love smart female characters (they make excellent waifus among other things), so I'll probably read this at a later time.
 
Edit: This is a joke. I don't find female MCs romantically appealing in general. I can't name any female MC i find romantically appealing (which I guess should be expected as I'm reading it from their point of view).

u/GrecklePrime [+8] (a day later)

You like smart female characters for their romantic appeal. Great. Thought you had gotten a bit more tact from the last time you made this request but nope.

u/None [+4] (a day later)

No I don't, it was a joke. I don't find the MC of A Practical Guide to Evil romantically appealing, yet I still like her. I don't find any female MC I've read romantically appealing.

u/Ardvarkeating101 [+1] Father of Learning (3 days later)

DONT YOU DARE INSULT THE BLACK QUEEN

/s

u/None [+4] (a day later)

This is a joke. I don't find female MCs romantically appealing in general. I can't name any female MC i find romantically appealing (which I guess should be expected as I'm reading it from their point of view).

u/bugwug [+8] (a day later)

I've been binge reading With This Ring (Young Justice SI) which I think meets most of your criteria. The author intends it to be SI, and even says it in the title. Not quite original fic as the protagonist wakes to finds himself in what seems to be a variant blend of different versions of DC universes, with an Orange Lantern power ring, but it is a rational fiction take on that which might have similar characteristics to what you appreciated in HPMOR. The main story line is interspersed with excerpts from a parallel story line in which the protagonist's handling of the situation is a bit more extreme, and a few other parallel story vignettes taking place in other parallel universes. The story is still ongoing, but the author seems very prolific. I am reading faster than new chapters are being written, but it will still take me a long time to catch up.

[Edit update] - BTW, I'll second the suggestions for both Worth the Candle and Mother of Learning which I finished the binge reads of and am now reading as new chapters come out.

u/the_terran [+6] (a day later)

Aside from Worth the Candle, I could recommend This Has Not Gone Well from r/HFY. MC is dropped into a fantasy world and starts picking some low hanging fruit. Occasionally gets NSFW but nothing too terrible.

u/Stopppit [+3] (2 days later)

I started reading This Has Not Gone Well. So far it reads like someone trying to mimic rationalist fiction by having a main character with an insane memory (and that's it). I'm not even sure it qualifies as rational fiction considering how the plot has only moved forward by means of low effort foreshadowing and one massive idiot ball. Spoilers I'll try to get through a bit more to see if it gets better but my expectations are low.

u/the_terran [+1] (2 days later)

Not rational per se perhaps but it hits most what OP requested. Main character is nevertheless smart if a bit full of himself by author's admission.

u/None [+2] (3 days later)

I don't think non-rational fics meet my requirements?

u/Fresh_C [+5] (a day later)

I know you said you haven't had much success with Fan Fiction, But if you have even a passing knowledge of Naruto I would recommend Waves Arisen which gives off a very HPMOR feel in my opinion.

The main character is intelligent and uses everything in his power to try to both understand and exploit the mechanisms by which the world runs.

u/None [+2] (2 days later)

I didn't like Waves Arisen (part of why I said I don't want fanfiction). This wasn't due to poor writing, but because the author decided to take a dump on several of my favourite characters, so I didn't like the plot.
 
As for HPMOR, I've only ever read (part of) one book, and watched part 1 of the Deathly Hallows, and it was so long ago, that I didn't have any attachment to any of the characters in the original Harry Potter series. This lack of attachment (and the way HPMOR was written) enabled me to experience it as original fiction.
 
I get attached to characters, so fanfics that don't treat my beloved characters well aren't very enjoyable.

u/tearrow [+5] (3 hours later)

Why not try the Gam3. It'll scratch that sci-fi itch.

u/None [+3] (8 hours later)

Read it, but MC isn't smart.

u/MultipartiteMind [+6] (2 days later)

(Reading it now, just finished 1.9, and feeling compelled to make the below joke.)

"I really like the Gam3 MC, the Alan-Eve dynamic is great."

"You like its MC!? But Alan is a moron!"

"Wait, you think the MC is Alan?"

u/None [+3] (2 days later)

Thanks. Eve is actually a better character than Alan. I can't self-insert as Eve though, so I don't read The Gam3 for wish fulfilment (Alan is frustrating to self-insert into).

u/MultipartiteMind [+1] (9 days later)

(At 6.1 now, compelled to express frustration about two particular recent matters--)

From both these things, I am left unable to comprehend his {thinking process}/{value system}.

As a largely-unrelated aside, .

u/SpiritLBC [+3] (17 hours later)

Have you tried Fimbulwinter by E. William Brown? First book is very reminiscent of his "time braid". But second and third are much better in munchkining the magic system.

u/hoja_nasredin [+4] Dai-Gurren Brigade (a day later)

Let me upvote the FImbulwinter series. It is a wish fulffilment/Power fantasy: He increases his own powers in side the world meet sexy woman he procedes to have sex with etc. Sad thing is that after the author got divorced no new novel came out.

u/Roxolan [+2] Head of antimemetiWalmart senior assistant manager (12 days later)

Sad thing is that after the author got divorced no new novel came out.

Huh, given the plot, I'd have expected this is the kind of novel one writes after getting divorced.

u/None [+1] (3 days later)

Is the MC smart?

u/SpiritLBC [+1] (4 days later)

Yeah, level 1 intelligent.

u/None [+1] (6 days later)

I'll note it then. Do you know any level 2 or level 3 intelligent characters?

u/megazver [+2] (2 days later)

If you'll settle for 1-3, the MC merely more reasonable and educated than everyone around him rather than a rationalist super-genius, and the story being an amateur translation of a Chinese web novel that is the usual quality of an amateur translation of a Chinese web novel, try Release That Witch.

It's about a Chinese engineer who gets body-swapped into a body of a worthless princeling in a fantasy kingdom that's about to plunge into a whole lot of trouble, decides to use his knowledge to turbocharge this land into industrial revolution. He is helped in this matter by a witch (and then more and more of them) he decides to take a chance on and save from a stake burning, even though everyone in this land thinks they're evil incarnate. It's a very cozy, low-conflict, wish-fulfillment read.

u/None [+1] (2 days later)

I read it.

u/megazver [+2] (2 days later)

Gotcha. Then yeah, I'll nth the Mother of Learning recommendation.

u/None [+2] (8 hours later)

I'm looking for a character with the same personality as Black, not a character with the same ability. A character who actually weaponises decision theory. So I want a smart rationalist MC. MC doesn't need any special powers (in case it wasn't clear).

u/hoja_nasredin [+1] Dai-Gurren Brigade (a day later)

Since we are on topic could you recommend ME a couple? What are your favorite fics?

u/None [+1] (3 days later)

Well, HPMOR was good. These are fiction I started before HPMOR, so they may not be LW!rational or even smart, so don't go in to expectant.

• Dungeon Defense (ATN)
• Code Geass (Anm)
• Death Note (Mng)
• Rakuin no Monshou (ATN)
• Alderamin on the Sky (ATN)

(Will update as I recall more).  
#Key ATN: Asian translated novel
Anm: Anime
Mng: Manga

u/None [+2] (8 hours later)

If you can get me a Male MC in teens/twenties who's smart (think Harry from HPMOR), and weaponises decision theory (like Black from the link) I'll be very grateful; those are the core requirements—the rest are just embellishments.

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