9.6 KiB
[RT] Horry Patter and the Philologer's Stone Ch. 17
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Author: u/Frommerman *
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Score: 26
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Created: 2018-01-02T23:01:11
Post:
Comments:
u/over_who [+7] Aleph you are going to die (an hour later)
One thing I feel a strong need to mention, is that just because a set is uncountably infinite, doesn't mean that it contains every element in its domain. For example, the set of all irrational numbers between 0 and 1 which do not have a 1 in their decimal representation is uncountable, yet still none of these numbers contain a 1, and most notably, isn't the set of all irrational numbers between 0 and 1. So it is just by odd quirk that there is Horry's life story, but there is no guarantee that any variations of it exist, even in a library where the cardinality of the set of books is an uncountable infinity.
How this applies to the story, it is unclear. Either the author doesn't understand infinities, the author is ignoring definitions because it fits the narrative nicely, or Alvin doesn't understand infinity. Which it is remains unknown.
Edit: Or Alvin is lying to Horry. another plausible alternative.
u/Quetzhal [+3] (5 hours later)
True enough, although I think in this case it's not so much a lack of understanding as the author already working under the principle that the library is an uncountably infinite set of all possible written works (without exception). I suspect it's more likely that Alvin was trying to explain this and simply worded it badly.
I'm pretty sure the whole thing is a direct reference to the Library of Babel, which is absolutely meant to be an infinite set of all possible written works.
u/CreationBlues [+2] (9 hours later)
While the library is definitely a reference, the library of babel is a much more limited case than the true library, and is actually finite in both the implementation and original description. Books in the library of babel of are a fixed length (shorter books are padded with spaces), limited character set, and have no images. The true library is not only unbounded by character set and image inclusion, but also likely has control of format, ink composition, page condition, and any other variable you'd need to describe any possible book, from the voynich manuscript to that dog eared copy of the hardy boys from grade school.
u/Gurkenglas [+2] (2 hours later)
The set of finite books is countably infinite, but that doesn't mean every book is in the library.Why do you think that every book being in the library is a lie?
u/over_who [+2] Aleph you are going to die (2 hours later)
Alvin argues that every possible outcome of every possible choice Horry every makes is represented by a book in the library because it is uncountable. My comment is meant to point out that this is not necessarily implied by having an uncountably infinite library, and possible reasons for this logical flaw. I am not certain of anything about how this applies to the story, but I was trying to come up with plausible reasons for the flaw.
For example, it is possible that the world in the book doesn't respect the axioms of Zermelo-Fraenkel Set theory (ZFC), or that Alvin is lying, or that the author made a mistake. I am not sure which is more reasonable. I think the most likely explanation is that the author made a mistake or deliberately inserted a logical flaw in Alvin's argument.
u/fawnmod [+6] (3 hours later)
Alvin does not make this argument :)
As I'm sure you're aware, the library could also contain no books containing the letter 'a', and still be uncountably infinite. Its uncountable-ness is not a sufficient condition for it containing every story (nor is it strictly necessary, modulo assumptions about how fine grained the data specifying the state of the universe is).
u/over_who [+5] Aleph you are going to die (4 hours later)
"Horry, very few people really understand the extent of our Library—what it truly means for it to be infinite beyond count. For every choice you have ever been confronted with, there is a tome, somewhere in our halls, detailing your life after you made that choice—with a new branch for every choice thereafter.
I see that these are separate statements, but by saying first that people don't understand what it means to have an uncountable library, and then saying, /this is true/, it heavily suggests the first statement implies the second, as it if to say, this is what people do not understand about our library, because they cannot understand infinity. It is not wrong, merely misleading.
Thanks for the response :)
u/CreationBlues [+1] (9 hours later)
Actually, we've already established how the library works: each book is encoded in base 4, and then the number is turned into a qr code, except spirally and with greys. Yes, Alvin is playing fast and loose for why things are the way they are, but the library really does contain every finite text, and because of that has countably infinite books inside of it. Since it has every text, anything describable can be found inside of the library, and someone's life story is certainly capable of being described.
u/AurelianoTampa [+2] (16 hours later)
each book is encoded in base 4, and then the number is turned into a qr code, except spirally and with greys.
... is the library taking cues from Doki Doki Literature Club!? (Warning, that link obviously contains massive spoilers if you haven't played the game)
u/Gurkenglas [+1] (11 hours later)
an infinitely long quaternary sequence
The library apparently also contains every infinite book, making the library uncountable. For example, a book's letters might just get smaller as you go on, like the QR code.
u/Frommerman [+6] (11 minutes later)
Horry felt nothing.
Anybody taking bets that Horry can't actually do magic any more and that the wand is doing all of it itself? Or maybe even that he could never do magic at all?
u/rjpfonseca [+5] (a day later)
I don't recall if this was alluded in previous chapters or not, but after reading this one, it begins to make some kind of sense to me why Luna is at Chogborts in her first year at the same time as Horry and his classmates.
In canon, Harry enters Hogwarts in 1991, but Luna, being one year younger, only enters in 1992. So far I've been assuming by default that the current year in this world was 1991 (I don't recall if we had a mention of the current year or not in the previous chapters).
But in this chapter, Horry's book shows his birth date as August 1st 1982, which is 366 days later than Harry's birth date in canon (July 31st 1981). Since I've got no reason to believe otherwise, I am assuming that in this world students still need to be at least 11 years old before entering Chogborts, as per the rules in canon.
This means that the current year is in fact 1992, and the history of this world, aside from all the differences we've seen so far, is also "shifted" 1 year to the future.
With the further confirmation in this chapter that people can be dropped in alternative worlds, it now makes some kind of sense why Luna is here at this time if we presume that the selection of the year at which she is dropped in this world is anchored to the date of her original world (which is supposedly closer to canon given her name).
u/infomaton [+3] (4 hours later)
Dick Hawkleyn's The Selfish Seam is a riff on Richard Dawkin's The Selfish Gene.
u/Gurkenglas [+3] (39 minutes later)
"Older self" may well refer to that version of himself that is native to more ancient times, and therefore biologically younger.
I'm curious whether we're going to get an explanation for how there are any non-gibberish books at all within walking distance of the library's entrance.
u/Frommerman [+2] (3 hours later)
The Library is mentioned in this chapter's opening blurb to be able to reorganize itself. Presumably, it has chosen to put those books there.
u/plushiemancer [+3] (8 hours later)
Somehow all those switched vowels and homophones are making this really hard for me to read.
u/abcd_z [+3] (a day later)
Just in case you missed it, an unidentified voice referred to the main character as Harry.
"I do love the good twist, but do be careful, Harry. Wouldn't want to spoil it all too soon. Look up, my boy, and tread lightly."
u/Frommerman [+1] (a day later)
I did notice that. It's unclear as of yet what this means.
u/None [+1] (20 hours later)
This story is built on some very interesting worldbuilding, but way too much foreshadowing for the sake of foreshadowing (which makes it hard to read in the serial format).
u/rjpfonseca [+1] (a day later)
Did anyone else get the sense that what people have been referring to time travel so far is actually always an insertion into an alternative world at an earlier equivalent date? Seems like that should be sufficient to explain apparent time travel.
u/abcd_z [+1] (a day later)
The background writings heavily imply that the known methods of time travel only enforce stable time loops. I assumed that at least one person (Horry's future self) knew of a method to truly alter the past and used it.
u/Gurkenglas [+1] (a day later)
One version of Alvin, too. Perhaps Albus.