29 KiB
[RT][HF] A Practical Guide to Evil Book 3: Chapter 56: Recess
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Author: u/Yes_This_Is_God *
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URL: https://practicalguidetoevil.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/chapter-56-recess/
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Score: 52
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Created: 2018-01-03T05:05:58
Post:
Comments:
u/Nihilvin [+14] (31 minutes later)
That argument seemed to come out of nowhere
u/TheEngineer923 [+23] (47 minutes later)
Not really. Warlock never liked Cat because he always had suspicions that the story between Cat and Black will end with Cat killing Black. All this time to the Warlock it seemed to be a far off concern. Sabah's death and Black's behavior splashed a metaphorical bucket of cold water in his face. So now he realizes it's a very, very real possibility. That and he and Black both are still very raw over Sabah's death. He's not thinking straight at the moment.
u/cyberdsaiyan [+23] (44 minutes later)
Warlock is probably very attuned to how the stories of Creation go, and with Captain's death, he knows that Black's days are numbered. Just by Catherine being the Squire, Black will eventually die one way or another. So he is understandably angry, since Black is pretty much his only "friend".
u/TideofKhatanga [+13] (3 hours later)
I don't think there's a single person left in Black's entourage that doesn't hate Catherine for what she is. Sabah liked anyone that joined their pseudo-family, everyone else considered Cat a mortal threat to their leader from the moment she took the Squire's mantle. Warlock and Ranger are simply more outspoken on that matter than Scribe, Assassin or the Dread Empress.
They aren't wrong either, evil characters killing their mentor is Career Planning 101. Doubly so for someone like Warlock who got his Name this way.
u/RynnisOne [+8] (11 hours later)
^This.
Once she achieved Squire, she was 'destined' to be the doom of Black. Whether she could replace him or whether she turned and became the White, either way she is determined by the story to bring about his demise.
Of course, we know how well that goes... Cat's not one to let someone else write her story for her.
u/TideofKhatanga [+11] (4 hours later)
Also, since no one commented on it yet, I want to say that it's real nice to see Archer and Hierophant getting together. At this point thoughn, I'm half expecting it to be another storyline just waiting to go horribly wrong.
u/TheEngineer923 [+7] (4 hours later)
Villains seldom have a happy ending in the traditional sense. It's usually the hero that gets the girl at the end.
u/TideofKhatanga [+13] (4 hours later)
Traditional villains either have a shitty life or a happy life with a kinda shitty ending. In the latter case, they don't get the girl at the end because they were happily married for years already. While Catherine's situation is up for debate, Masego is following the Calamities' example and those were clearly in case #2.
u/None [+3] (13 hours later)
also archer is not a villian per se, so they could be happy until she get bored or something a la black an hye.
u/RynnisOne [+11] (11 hours later)
It's not a happy ending, just a happy interlude. Even villains are permitted that, it seems.
It's just a really cute case of "opposites attract". Or, if one decides to dig deeper, Archer basing the strength she's attracted to not so much on body as determination whereas in Hierophant's case it's more about her being a person he can't accidentally drive away.
u/Ardvarkeating101 [+1] Father of Learning (a day later)
Yeah, he can even call her lady armchair and she won't get mad like all the others!
u/melmonella [+7] Tremble, o ye mighty, for a new age is upon you (11 hours later)
Hero can also get the boy in the end, to be fair...
u/sparkc [+5] (6 hours later)
Personally, I read their interactions as more likely to be platonic.
u/AurelianoTampa [+8] (9 hours later)
I feel it could go either way. Masego always struck me as asexual, in the sense that he simply doesn't even think about sex or romance unless it's in an academic sense, let alone desire it. Archer though is very obviously a sexual creature, and she's getting Masego to grow closer to her. It's possible that this will lead to him developing feelings for her, kinda like how Warlock is seemingly a sociopath but still developed feelings for a select few individuals (Black, Sabah, his husband, his son).
u/RynnisOne [+9] (11 hours later)
It's entirely possible he's never had interest but might actually show some ones he tries it. That happens to people in the real world, after all.
I could see her playfully suggesting it as a "science experiment" and then, later on, getting him to agree to further "testing".
u/CeruleanTresses [+4] (10 hours later)
Allosexuals can have platonic friendships too, though. Archer could be pursuing that with him (even if she wouldn't say no to a romantic/sexual relationship if he were interested). I see it as a developing close friendship, potentially as intimate and meaningful as a romance without being one.
This might be wishful thinking on my part. I know that there are people in real life who are just mostly asexual or aromantic. And in the future, when the general population is aware that ace/aro people exist and aren't just broken, frigid, sociopathic, etc, it would be cool to see characters all along those spectra represented in fiction. But right now seeing any ace/aro representation is rare, and having Archer turn out to be an "exception" to Masego's orientation would kind of undermine it here. We already hear "you just need to find the right person" constantly, and a canonical romance between Masego and Archer would essentially validate that frustrating stereotype (edit: but only if it involved sex, romance alone doesn't undermine asexuality).
u/ErraticErrata [+14] (20 hours later)
Masego is asexual and will remain that, though he's not necessarily aromantic.
u/CeruleanTresses [+5] (22 hours later)
Glad to hear it! You are the author, right? Ace representation is a precious thing and I really appreciate your including an ace character in your work.
u/ErraticErrata [+11] (a day later)
I am the author, yes! And I'm glad to hear that, I made an attempt to broaden the scope of orientations represented compared to the usual fantasy.
u/DigitalDuelist [+2] (a day later)
Will there be an attempt to explain why this is so in the story? The statistical anomaly of this many characters having a different orientation is unsettling in a story where you should be actively analysing for all sorts of things. It's an out of place red herring IMO. What someone could make of it I have no clue, but it sticks out like a sore thumb and distracts the reader from the rest of the story if they pick up on it. It could be something as simple as 'Named are quirky, and orientation is definitely something that sticks out, and it's super well know or whatever' and it would be fine i think, and if someone is still bothered by it that's sadly probably got nothing to do with reason.
An admirable thing to do and I'm actually enjoying seeing this in characters, and learning what it means for their personality or whatever makes me put my phone down and think at the time, but it's my biggest issue with the story so far and it could be smoothed over with an offhand comment.
Also, just picked up the story in early December and holy crap is it awesome! This is a genuine inspiration to me, I'm just not sure what to do with that because I'm not inspired often. Keep up the awesome, at this point if you stop the story I might die!
u/sharikak54 [+5] (a day later)
Isn't it more likely that people with "anomalous" traits would be the ones with stronger opinions, different outlooks, etc, of the sort that gets them a Name? That was my take on it.
In particular at least with Zego, who is so focused on SCIENCE that including anything else would just be a distraction.
u/DigitalDuelist [+1] (2 days later)
That's actually a really good point.
u/CeruleanTresses [+3] (a day later)
There are a lot of things that are statistically anomalous about this group of characters. Does it need a "why?" Isn't "by chance" a valid explanation?
u/DigitalDuelist [+1] (a day later)
Normally? Nope, wouldn't need a why and yes chance and coincidence would be more than good enough. But this is rationalist fiction, and chance doesn't play a hand here.
u/haiku_fornification [+4] (a day later)
Why do you apply statistics from Earth to a different universe? It seems like all the explanation required is that the story takes place in a different world with different culture.
u/DigitalDuelist [+2] (a day later)
Because the reader is from Earth. Unless otherwise shown, things are implied to work the same as on earth, take the figurative language in almost any chapter, or the example that sticks out to me the most being when Cat is commenting on Laurean fisherman's sons having rocking swimmers bods, which we assume is referring to muscle toneing and not the acquisition of say a fish head and gills. I was asking that it be otherwise shown.
u/CeruleanTresses [+6] (a day later)
Does having a ton of named LGBT+ characters, and nobody in-universe finding that unusual enough to comment upon, not count as "showing"? Not that I'd have any issue with it just being a coincidence, but if you wanted to interpret it as a sign that non-hetero orientations are more common in this 'verse, I think there's enough there to support that conclusion.
I mean, what else would you be looking for? Cat's not going to come out and say "On reflection, I'm pretty sure my world has more gay and ace people than some hypothetical alternate world I've never heard of."
u/DigitalDuelist [+1] (a day later)
I mean, what else would you be looking for? Cat's not going to come out and say "On reflection, I'm pretty sure my world has more gay and ace people than some hypothetical alternate world I've never heard of."
Ok that actually made me laugh. No of course not. It being a coincidence felt really off to me, as I said in the other comment, so I wanted some way of letting the reader know that they were more common because it being a plot point didn't make any sense at all. It could be that it is more common for Named to be lgbtq+ for whatever reason, maybe just because it's yet another quirk, and that would be fine because most of the relationships we know of are among Named, and if it's exclusive to Named that's a way to comment on it, or it could be that they are actually more common among the whole of the populace, in which case having a high lord make some incredibly crass comment about repopulation problems due to people's sexuality preventing them from participating, and Cat 'educating' him with her sword would be funny as all heck.
u/Ardvarkeating101 [+0] Father of Learning (a day later)
I mean, what else would you be looking for? Cat's not going to come out and say "On reflection, I'm pretty sure my world has more gay and ace people than some hypothetical alternate world I've never heard of."
I would appreciate this just to piss off the fans who hate meta stuff. Not because I like meta stuff or dislike those fans, but just in general.
u/haiku_fornification [+5] (a day later)
But it is shown to be otherwise.
I think you're assuming that Cat's group is a statistical outlier of sexual orientation and that when it comes to everyone else, the distribution is similar to that on Earth. Instead, I believe that Cat's group is simply a small sample of a larger society which is more sexually diverse. They're the example from which we can extrapolate, imo.
u/DigitalDuelist [+2] (a day later)
Instead, I believe that Cat's group is simply a small sample of a larger society which is more sexually diverse
You could also extrapolate that to be a quality of Named individuals, and society as a whole is pretty much the same, making Killain the only member of her ensemble to have the roll of the dice take the minority option, which is reasonable. I moreso want that to be cleared up as to which it is, because the reader needs to figure that out and it is so minor to the actual story I feel it takes away just a tiny bit, which is crap imo.
u/DigitalDuelist [+0] (a day later)
Instead, I believe that Cat's group is simply a small sample of a larger society which is more sexually diverse
You could also extrapolate that to be a quality of Named individuals, and society as a whole is pretty much the same, making Killain the only member of her ensemble to have the roll of the dice take the minority option, which is reasonable. I moreso want that to be cleared up as to which it is, because the reader needs to figure that out and it is so minor to the actual story I feel it takes away just a tiny bit, which is crap imo.
u/CeruleanTresses [+2] (a day later)
Doesn't it? Aren't statistical anomalies a feature of any realistic setting? Doesn't rationalism deal with chance and probability? If anything, isn't it more believable that some things are just a coincidence than that every statistical anomaly must have an explanation?
You seem to believe that it's a flaw in the work for an apparent statistical anomaly (assuming, perhaps erroneously, that heterosexuality is as dominant in this setting as it is in ours) to exist without being a piece of the greater puzzle somehow, and I don't understand why. A rational approach to our own universe requires accepting that some things are just a coincidence; I'm pretty sure assigning undue significance to improbable outcomes is a typical example of irrationality in rationalist discourse. So why doesn't that apply here?
u/DigitalDuelist [+1] (a day later)
But stories are an important part of the guideverse, so if something looks like a trope from a story it has a direct impact, and implied weight that doesn't seem to be intended. Nothing can be of coincidence, because 'nothing is a coincidence' in many other stories.
u/CeruleanTresses [+2] (a day later)
OK, so that's a different argument than "chance doesn't play a hand because it's a rationalist work." That argument didn't make sense because it's typically irrational to assume that nothing is coincidental. Your position now is that chance can't play a hand because the setting is explicitly built on story tropes, right?
I would argue that just because story tropes are built into the setting does not mean that coincidences cannot exist in that setting. The serial's various LGBT+ characters aren't native to Arcadia, their characteristics and actions aren't 100% dictated by story. Their world seems to operate as a sort of hybrid of realism and tropes, wherein tropes can be applied to existing scenarios to push them toward a desired outcome. I don't see that as mutually exclusive with "statistical anomalies that are just statistical anomalies and not some kind of plot clue."
We also have to consider that the tropes we've seen affect outcomes in this setting are of the grand, deeply-ingrained, mythologically significant sort. The rule of three, the theft of fire, the slaying of the maiden-killing beast, etc. I'm not aware of any trope of similar weight that relates to an improbable concentration of non-heterosexual folks playing an influential role in the protagonist's struggle.
u/DigitalDuelist [+1] (a day later)
OK, so that's a different argument than "chance doesn't play a hand because it's a rationalist work." That argument didn't make sense because it's typically irrational to assume that nothing is coincidental. Your position now is that chance can't play a hand because the setting is explicitly built on story tropes, right?
My position hasn't changed I'm just doing a crap job at representing it because I'm distracted IRL but trying to keep conversation active while it's still relevant. I was trying to get at chance not being a device the author uses because the reader is expected to come to the same conclusions as the characters, as well as there being little room for chance within the narrative due to stories, but clearly missed the buck both times I tried to type it out lol.
You have a point actually, thank you. I think I was confused by the token gay character trope (but that doesn't normally have a narrative impact does it?), and assuming that nothing is ever a coincidence with master planers because 'nothing is a coincidence with master planners'. It felt really awkward to have that opinion, hence why i spoke up about something so minor. I haven't really had much time to mull over it all, I just got caught up.
u/Cariyaga [+2] Kyubey did nothing wrong (22 hours later)
That's cool to hear, as someone who's ace himself.
u/haiku_fornification [+6] (3 hours later)
Well, I certainly wouldn't trust Warlock to resurrect Nauk.
On that note, it's kinda disappointing how crazy the Calamities are. It seems like they're all willing to kill her to save Black, yet she's precisely what he wanted - a worthy successor who shares his methodology. Trying to kill her is like spitting in his face.
Don't get me wrong, it's good to see they're flawed people despite their power, it's just... what are they trying to achieve? Either come to terms with Black's death or legitimately try to kill her. Making threats achieves nothing. Is the narrative causing some of this conflict? It's like they're throwing a tantrum cause the story isn't going their way, yet they're not actually willing to change it.
On the final note, I hope when Cat picks up a new Name it will accommodate the Winter power. Becoming a fae, even partially, would be a huge disadvantage considering how often she depends on changing the narrative to win.
u/CeruleanTresses [+13] (10 hours later)
I don't think Warlock is going to intentionally do a shit job restoring Nauk, since it was Masego who asked him to do this and if he wanted to be a dick to his own son he could have just said no. But I wouldn't be surprised if he snuck some kind of Trojan horse bullshit into him to use against Catherine later.
u/TheEngineer923 [+7] (11 hours later)
There's no way he DIDN'T do that. Remember it's been shown that he has a vindictive streak as he toyed with the other Calamities. Draining Black's wine, messing with Ranger's tea etc. With them it was all good natured fun.
Now, however, he's very pissed off at Cat and he is a confirmed sociopath in the perfect position to screw Nauk up in a way that wouldn't be immediately apparent to Masego (despite his upgrade Masego is still not on Warlock's level when it comes to Arcane knowledge) but would trigger in a situation where it would hurt Cat the most. It's not like he'd lose anything in the attempt. Black wouldn't be overly pissed at him and Masego wouldn't go against his father over Nauk (for Cat maybe but definitely not Nauk).
Such an act is completely in character for him.
u/Arancaytar [+9] (7 hours later)
It seems like they're all willing to kill her to save Black, yet she's precisely what he wanted - a worthy successor who shares his methodology. Trying to kill her is like spitting in his face.
In fact, I vaguely recall Black internally monologuing about possibly having to kill the rest of the calamities in order to protect Catherine after his own death.
u/RynnisOne [+11] (11 hours later)
Yep.
He's willing to kill them to stop them from killing her in order to stop her from killing him.
Villains can get weird.
u/TheEngineer923 [+8] (4 hours later)
Death Knight with frost spec perhaps?
u/aeschenkarnos [-3] (6 hours later)
I'm betting her new Name will be Warlord.
u/Blackrabite [+9] (13 hours later)
I'm leaning towards Black Queen now.
u/TheEngineer923 [+8] (9 hours later)
That's an Orc Name. Or was rather.
u/aeschenkarnos [+1] (14 hours later)
Was.
u/TheEngineer923 [+9] (15 hours later)
I meant was in the sense that it is no longer in use, not that it's no longer restricted to Orcs. WOG said in a comment that it's an Orc Name with the implied notion that Cat wouldn't get it. A squire must become a Knight after all.
u/GeeJo [+2] Custom Flair (2 days later)
Or a king/queen (See: Pendragon, Arthur)
u/Empiricist_or_not [+3] Aspiring polite Hegemonizing swarm (a day later)
Am I the only one who is pissed at Black for not instilling the big picture into his peers? Bonus points to commentators coming from a Leadership/Management/Mentoring perspective. Black has done a lot right in building up the Calamities, except he knows villains die, and they all seem rather fragile to his mortality, which seems a pretty big leadership fail.
u/werafdsaew [+1] (3 days later)
I think his peers do know the big picture, they just don't agree with the cost.
u/Ibbot [+6] (21 minutes later)
And ends on a cliffhanger of course. Can’t wait to see the aftermath of that talk we’ve been waiting for.
u/TheEngineer923 [+8] (48 minutes later)
Indeed. We really have to reach that patreon goal soon.
u/TheEngineer923 [+5] (4 hours later)
So, what do you guys think about a Cat vs Warlock situation in a fight to the Death? Who'd win?
u/AurelianoTampa [+13] (9 hours later)
Unless Cat gets a surprise first strike that's fatal, Warlock would win every encounter. And I highly doubt Warlock is ever without some kind of magical protection up. Warlock has more power, more experience, more ruthlessness, more range... pretty much all Cat has is better melee skills and strong (but fickle) Winter power.
... one possible way she could win would be Speaking to Warlock and commanding him to kill himself. Or even to stand still long enough for her to decapitate him. Or by Black telling her what his Warlock contingency plan would be, and her following that.
Hm. Guess I revise my estimates to 8/10 for Warlock, 2/10 for Cat, and 11/10 with rice.
u/TheEngineer923 [+6] (10 hours later)
Haha, rice. Yeah you're right. But in that enclosed tent in close quarters inside Cat's own camp with all of The Woe (sans Thief) and Black merely a few feet away?
Situation wise that would not be a curbstomp battle though Warlock might win if he disrupted the spell structure around Cat's soul but that wouldn't kill Cat instantly and in those precious few seconds she's still alive she literally has the full power of a Princess level Fae. She also has TAKE and BREAK.
So why wouldn't she simply imbue all that power into her aspect BREAK and BREAK the Warlock's Name before she bit it? Its already been shown that you can write "instructions" on Names which is what Cat did with the Lone Swordsman when she just a regular non Fae titled transitional Squire and the Lone Swordsman was a fully realized Name.
It stands to reason that she could BREAK the Warlock's name with the full power of Winter at her behest.
Those odds are only applicable if Warlock is calm (which he is not at that moment) and prepared (I hazard a guess not as well as he should be for a Named like Cat).
I put it at 10/10 for a mutual kill.
u/RynnisOne [+8] (11 hours later)
Depends on the starting conditions.
There, in the tent, in melee range? Cat all the way.
She simply needs to invoke any of her Three Aspects while drawing her sword. All his complicated magical wards and such are (broken/cease functioning for a time/have their control subverted) for the fraction of the second it takes for her to decapitate him. I think this is one reason he didn't push it or try to attack her in any way, honestly.
In any other situation, involving just the two of them? Warlock, 100%. If Warlock has time to prepare for you, he's going to win.
If there's a situation where there is so much as audio communication available between her and Black? Cat, again, because Black will stop Warlock, even if only as a distraction for her to finish him, though quite likely as part of one of his contingency plans.
u/TheEngineer923 [+2] (12 hours later)
As ever situation is paramount. Still would have been pretty fun to read though.
u/LordGoldenroot [+5] (5 hours later)
I'd guess it would be a mutual kill. Warlock could most likely destroy the framework keeping Catherine's Winter title from killing her but she would almost certainly be able to take out warlock before her body gives out on her.
u/aeschenkarnos [+3] (6 hours later)
Masego would decide which of them wins.
u/CeruleanTresses [+4] (10 hours later)
In a hypothetical, I'd bet on Warlock 100%. Dude can take out armies, he'd obliterate her in seconds. But in the actual story, I'd bet on Cat. Being the main POV character confers a massive advantage, even if she isn't aware of it. The arbiter of her reality wants her to succeed.
u/Arancaytar [+3] (8 hours later)
In single combat, I'd bet on Warlock eight times out of ten. Ten times, if he actually plans it instead of blindly lashing out.
Cat has raw power, but Warlock has more as well as decades of practice using that power in combat. I'm pretty sure Cat isn't yet at the level where she can survive things that level cities or topple mountains.
Now, if Black and/or Masego get involved (on Catherine's side) that'd be something different...
u/None [+2] (8 hours later)
isn't yet at the level where she can survive things that level cities or topple mountains.
I don't think Cat losing would be a result of differences in raw power, but rather finesse. Her soul is far too vulnerable.
u/Arancaytar [+1] (10 hours later)
Yeah, as Warlock has pointed out, she's left herself pretty fragile and vulnerable to anyone who can manipulate souls. That includes most magic-based Named, apparently (eg. Masego and possibly Akua), and definitely Warlock himself.
The ability to drop a mountain on her is just a viable Plan B, after that.
u/haiku_fornification [+3] (8 hours later)
I think in terms of pure destructive power, Warlock is far superior to Cat. At the same time, Cat has a lot of skills which are directed at single strong opponents (such as Take).
Honestly, it would probably depend on how long it takes to break down Cat's soul. If it takes little effort, she would be boned. If it takes significant effort I would bet on her to win, assuming Break works on sorcery.
u/None [+2] (8 hours later)
Warlock. He's way more OP than Catherine and Catherine is clearly very vulnerable to the kind of magic that Warlock is especially good at in her current state.
20% chance Catherine causes some sort of serious damage.
5% chance of a mutual kill.
u/None [+2] (20 hours later)
Cat, because she has the power of narrative on her side with the young vs. the old right now. But narrative forces also dictate that there would be no fight here, since there has been no hinting or build up to it.
u/TheEngineer923 [+5] (22 hours later)
I wouldn't agree with the no build up line. Tension had been present (from the Warlock's side at least) from the moment Cat became Black's Squire and took up the Squire Name. It increased and became mutual when Warlock threatened Cat and now with this it has intensified. Powder Kegs have been filled and gathered. All it takes now is the Spark.
u/CouteauBleu [+1] We are the Empire. (4 days later)
“Everything you heard here is under the Tower’s seal,” I told the guards.
Badass.